patrick.net

Can you explain the mechanics of why the CL is a bona fide short sale? Is the seller betting that they can acquire the unit at below the 640K to cover?

Huh?

Selling below what you paid does not a short sale make. It only means you lost money.

Selling below what you paid does not a short sale make. It only means you lost money.

I thought "short sale" means that it is asking for less than the loan amount.

Thanks Scott, that's what I was wondering too.

I guess, since it's new construction, it is possible he could be short betting on the construction contract option.

Duh!

I thought “short sale” means that it is asking for less than the loan amount.

A short sale is when you borrow S from someone, agree to sell S for X now with the idea that you'll buy S at Y later to cover and repay to your broker.

You can't do this with real assets, but you can do it with options on real assets.

Elite-Like-Me TM, I like it. I think there's a reality show in there somewhere.

Quoting eHow:
A short sale in real estate occurs when the outstanding obligations (loans) against a property are greater than what the property can be sold for.

Wikipedia only seems to discuss the stock version; I'll have to correct that.

If a seller of a house has to actually own that house (whether financed or not) in order to sell it to you as a buyer, then they are by definition a LONG SELLER. The LOSE money as the price goes down. A SHORT SELLER would MAKE money as the price goes down.

maybe someone can email the CL seller and ask?!?!?!

Quoting eHow:
A short sale in real estate occurs when the outstanding obligations (loans) against a property are greater than what the property can be sold for.

Then I stand corrected, but will still object that this is just the language of convention and should not be mistaken for what a financial SHORT or LONG position means.

Randy, "Short Sale" has special meaning in real estate.

http://www.shortsaleexpert.com/

It means that the homedebtor is trying to sell for less than the loan amount. It requires bank approval and may have tax consequences. It is messy but it is one way to avert foreclosure.

newsfreak,

How can money be made on the way down?

In short, it can't (pun intended).

Using a theoretical option scenario, you could short an option on your house if you could find an offsetting party willing to go long on that option. Then you'd make money on the way down.

Peter P,

Randy, “Short Sale” has special meaning in real estate.

Thanks to you and requiem for clarifying for me. I learn something new every day on here.

I guess Real-Estate is "different". Mabye it does "always go up"** too.

**In real-estate terms, "always goes up" means "sometimes goes up or down"

LOL, so I guess no need for me to ask the RE agent and get bombarded with RE spam.

So a short sell is essentially a pre-foreclosure sell.

Very frustrating for Elitists in a hurry.

I guess it is better to fly into Phoenix and take a limo then.

newsfreak,

So buy it now, or pay more to buy it from the bank?

Pretend you own your home 100%. You are sure it's going to go down. Your banker is sure it's going to go up. You could create an "option" where you sell the house to him at today's price. The contract allows you to stay there for 1 year, at which time you have to buy it back from him at the current market value. If it goes up, he wins, if it goes down, you win.

**massive oversimplification ignoring lots of reality

And where is this house?

It has a 95136 zip code. Blossom Hill area?

You will live longer and prosper.

Thanks. Logic prevails.

Are there any Toyota Centurys for rent in the Sedona area?

Are there any Toyota Centurys for rent in the Sedona area?

I have not seen any in the US. Most people find it ugly.

Peter P,

After looking at that url I'm even more confused. It just looks like pre-foreclosure sales flipping to me.

It just looks like pre-foreclosure sales flipping to me.

It may be a pre-foreclosure listing. But the fact that it says "SHORT SALE" surprised me.

I thought a short sale implies that while the homedebtor has not completely defaulted they may (w/the lender's permission) sell it for less than is owed. What everyone may be glossing over is the fact that the lender AGREED to it! In a "hot market" the lender would just let the property slide into oblivion and then sell it for MORE after the homedebtor signed over the "deed in lieu of foreclosure" and pocket the difference!

PS,

My first bike was a Honda, quickly followed by several BSA's, Norton's and a Triumph. There is a Royal Enfield dealership is just a few miles from my house and I kind of got to know the old guy running it. They are very sensible and built in India (as they have since WWII). The design and lines look really cool and their "big model" is 500cc's! I understand that they are still a major mode of transportation in India. A few safety updates but basically it's the same frame and power plant from the 40's.

I have a friend that works short sales and "loan work-outs" and it is an ugly business. Not enviable. But I believe that just b/c something is being sold at "below market value" doesn't make it a short sale. Selling below what is owed doesn't necessarily make it a short sale either as long as the seller can bring cash to the closing. It's when the homedebtor can not "fill the hole" that it becomes a true short sale. We'll all be experts on this before it's over.

DinOR,

So, essentially a pre-foreclosure sale. Why can't they call them that rather than confuse the savvy stock investors amongst us?

It seems that if the market is trending down, one could negotiate a short sale for any amount below market, but above the price the bank could get at the end of the foreclosure process.

E.g., 'owner' realizes that they won't be able to make payments, but can hold on to the property for another 6 months at least. If the value is expected to drop 100K$ over that time, you might persuade the bank to take 50K$ below market now and to forgive the loan. Selling at market could then provide 50K$ that you can use to help pay off the IRS. (Or pocket, if you're a third party "helping" the homeowner get out of his mortgage.)

Or am I completely imagining things?

Newsfreak, Peter P, yes, I believe I've finished a book and started a few others since my dubious departure. None of them, however, were titled How Greedy Flipper Got Her Groove Back, Got Wild, and Lost Her Shirt In Real Estate (or anything like that). I have not yet ventured into the burgeoning subgenre of plagiarized real estate chick lit.

"Plagiarized" is such a big word. Let's use "parodied" instead. :)

Jamie, you departed with doobies? Hmmm must have been with jack, painter of black, with a secret bong attack.

Let me reiterate,

Jamie's hot.

The players in the short sale arena typically start by offering HALF of what is OWED! They reason to the lender that it is far better thing to get those assets redeployed into a loan that is performing (and do so quickly) rather than get drug through the wringer on a foreclosure proceeding.

The lender rejects based on comps and so on it goes, back and forth. Finally an amount is agreed upon and then they do the dirt.

I think plagarized is a bit harsh, let's believe her and call it "super-human ability to subconsciously replicate entire pages." :P

cough cough.

I think it's funny how reporters like to use the word "borrowed" instead of plagiarized. Like, oh yeah, that meth addict borrowed my freaking Mercedes and drove it to Oregon, man.

Jamie,

Sorry. So hard to resist mocking young Harvard accepted whippersnappers :) Must not! Can not resist!

Duh!

Surfer-X, stop it.

(Jack's probably off staring into the void.)

Jamie,

I'm sorry. I restating the girl's claims to high light exactly how absurd they are.