patrick.net

It just looks like pre-foreclosure sales flipping to me.

It may be a pre-foreclosure listing. But the fact that it says "SHORT SALE" surprised me.

I thought a short sale implies that while the homedebtor has not completely defaulted they may (w/the lender's permission) sell it for less than is owed. What everyone may be glossing over is the fact that the lender AGREED to it! In a "hot market" the lender would just let the property slide into oblivion and then sell it for MORE after the homedebtor signed over the "deed in lieu of foreclosure" and pocket the difference!

PS,

My first bike was a Honda, quickly followed by several BSA's, Norton's and a Triumph. There is a Royal Enfield dealership is just a few miles from my house and I kind of got to know the old guy running it. They are very sensible and built in India (as they have since WWII). The design and lines look really cool and their "big model" is 500cc's! I understand that they are still a major mode of transportation in India. A few safety updates but basically it's the same frame and power plant from the 40's.

I have a friend that works short sales and "loan work-outs" and it is an ugly business. Not enviable. But I believe that just b/c something is being sold at "below market value" doesn't make it a short sale. Selling below what is owed doesn't necessarily make it a short sale either as long as the seller can bring cash to the closing. It's when the homedebtor can not "fill the hole" that it becomes a true short sale. We'll all be experts on this before it's over.

DinOR,

So, essentially a pre-foreclosure sale. Why can't they call them that rather than confuse the savvy stock investors amongst us?

It seems that if the market is trending down, one could negotiate a short sale for any amount below market, but above the price the bank could get at the end of the foreclosure process.

E.g., 'owner' realizes that they won't be able to make payments, but can hold on to the property for another 6 months at least. If the value is expected to drop 100K$ over that time, you might persuade the bank to take 50K$ below market now and to forgive the loan. Selling at market could then provide 50K$ that you can use to help pay off the IRS. (Or pocket, if you're a third party "helping" the homeowner get out of his mortgage.)

Or am I completely imagining things?

Newsfreak, Peter P, yes, I believe I've finished a book and started a few others since my dubious departure. None of them, however, were titled How Greedy Flipper Got Her Groove Back, Got Wild, and Lost Her Shirt In Real Estate (or anything like that). I have not yet ventured into the burgeoning subgenre of plagiarized real estate chick lit.

"Plagiarized" is such a big word. Let's use "parodied" instead. :)

Jamie, you departed with doobies? Hmmm must have been with jack, painter of black, with a secret bong attack.

Let me reiterate,

Jamie's hot.

The players in the short sale arena typically start by offering HALF of what is OWED! They reason to the lender that it is far better thing to get those assets redeployed into a loan that is performing (and do so quickly) rather than get drug through the wringer on a foreclosure proceeding.

The lender rejects based on comps and so on it goes, back and forth. Finally an amount is agreed upon and then they do the dirt.

I think plagarized is a bit harsh, let's believe her and call it "super-human ability to subconsciously replicate entire pages." :P

cough cough.

I think it's funny how reporters like to use the word "borrowed" instead of plagiarized. Like, oh yeah, that meth addict borrowed my freaking Mercedes and drove it to Oregon, man.

Jamie,

Sorry. So hard to resist mocking young Harvard accepted whippersnappers :) Must not! Can not resist!

Duh!

Surfer-X, stop it.

(Jack's probably off staring into the void.)

Jamie,

I'm sorry. I restating the girl's claims to high light exactly how absurd they are.

Yeah, I'd hate to be Ms. Harvard Plagiarist walking around campus these days. I imagine her fellow students are having a field day with her. Heh. She deserves it.

Yeah, I’d hate to be Ms. Harvard Plagiarist walking around campus these days. I imagine her fellow students are having a field day with her. Heh. She deserves it.

Now she is getting so much attention.

Oh astrid, I know you were joking! I was too. Always. Don't ever mistake me for being serious. :-)

It might be good that she's getting so much attention, because publishers may never want to touch her again. A lot of plagiarists even after getting caught end up flying under the radar and selling more books later.

Oh let's see, how can I relate this to real estate? Um... Creating frankenstein chick lit books and selling them for huge book deals might be the only way left to afford a house in the bay area. Beg, borrow and steal words.

newsfreak,

It's been awile since I've read Dante's Inferno but yes this certainly must be one of the levels. Here's where it gets really ugly. The guys that work the N.O.D (notice of default list) cold call and send out mailers in like a tri-state area trolling for people in arrears. Those that respond wind up wishing they hadn't b/c these guys claim that they'll get them current and have the owner sign over their interest in the property and the MINUTE they are behind the bottom feeder moves in for the kill b/c the "former" owner is in breach and they don't even have to go through foreclosure proceedings b/c the bottom feeder already owns the property. There are variations but that's the general gist.

PS,

If there's "a" Royal Enfield dealer in Oregon there must be 10 in CA! You know I think I'd be just fine w/ the "kick start" model! How hard can it be to kick over a 350/500cc bike? I'm not that lazy (yet).

PS,

The Royal Enfield "story" is every bit as cool as BSA's (Brimingham Small Arms) that made cannons and other weapons for the Brit's in WWI. Royal actually pre-dates the gasoline engine during the age of steam. Plagerize that!

Birmingham? Duh?

PS,

Which one do you like better? The "Classic" or the HUGE 500cc "Bullet" w/ the single seat? Of course they have their "Military" model as well. Even the spokes on the wheels are olive drab!

PS,

O.K so they have a dealership in Oregon but not CA? Well there's one thing the BA doesn't have on us! Please try Cycle Trader Online and there should be scores of low mileage bikes close by. I've even seen them on ebay and they WILL deliver!

PS,

Jim, the local dealer says that while they don't really advertise it that much on the web site you can still get the 350cc model (you just have to ask) and they will also install a shift kit on the right for true British enthusiasts!

"I’m sorry. I restating the girl’s claims to high light exactly how absurd they are."

OGM! I'm the worst blogger ever! Maybe if I plagarize Peter P's comments, my writing will improve...

knives, cars, gardening

Those are relate deeply to RE!

Knives to defend yourself against future hordes of hungery FBs.

Cars to buy from future hordes of hungary FBs.

Garden with electric fences so future hordes of hungary FBs don't steal all your produce for food.

newsfreak,

Bottom feeder doesn't necessarily have to be derogatory. We all do it at times. It also doesn't always have to mean; taking advantage of the misfortune of others low life S.O.B but in this case, ahem...... it applies.

astrid,

See? You've made it so tidy for the rest of us!

newsfreak,

"Peter P should incorporate as a land baron and fly around searching for the outer circle in other markets"

Let's just form our own resolution trust company and wait for diluge of foreclosed homes to come. You can write the copy. Randy H can do the market analysis. DinOR can work on investors. Owneroccupier can figure out a great jingle. Joe Schmoe can do the legal work. Peter P can do feng shui consultations. etc.

PS, I just need to get my blogging legs back--I like to pretend I'm all respectful of the topic and stuff for my first few posts. Check out the Huh thread from...October? November? to see the heights of off-topic-ness.

(that was a note to p.s., not a post-script.)

ps,

We've got to figure out a standard way to address you.

"Ps"?

I miss Jack. He would make great "intangiblity" measurer...

I miss Jack too.

Newsfreak,

Quoting Wikipedia:
As of April 24, 2006, the price of copper is $3.15 per pound and zinc is $1.50 per pound. At these prices, the pre-1982 copper cent contains 2.03 cents worth of copper metal; it is now potentially profitable to melt them down. Presumably with the rapid rise in price for zinc (more than doubled in the last six months), the US Mint will have to find another alternative. Just the scrap zinc in a cent is worth 0.83 cents. With the costs of manufacturing and distribution, the net cost to produce one cent significantly exceeds $0.01.

DinOR,

So, a couple of threads back I was lambasted for talking about all the transactional frictions associated with foreclosures. I was assured by those in the know that foreclosures were very efficient procedures -- a claim of which I am skeptical given that it involves both the legal system and civil agencies.

So, assuming your logical description is correct I continue to maintain that prices will be quite sticky and sloppy on the way down. RE is the antithesis of an efficient market.

They reason to the lender that it is far better thing to get those assets redeployed into a loan that is performing (and do so quickly) rather than get drug through the wringer on a foreclosure proceeding.