patrick.net

SFW,

I should visit Iceland.

SFW,

regarding the thinness of les filles parisiannes, you are correct. On average, they are thinner than women I've seen elsewhere. (never been to Africa, so cannot comment.) I once was seated next to four beautiful french girls at a parisian cafe -- thanks to the kind waiter -- the girl opposite to me was so thin that I was completely befuddled. At the same cafe the other time, I saw a french guy dating two french women. One of them is the epitome of pencil-thin body, if there is a term for it. It's just unhealthy. Generally speaking, very thin women just turn me off.

Somewhere I read that the french women feel the pressure from their men to stay very thin. This is just sickening.

SFWoman,

I've never been to Iceland and I'm not even sure I've ever met an Icelander, but from photographs the women all look very similar, with wide, child-like faces. I like the Slavic face, the young women look ethereal to me.

GC,

I don't find Shanghai women all that impressive looking. You get a wide variety of women from all over, but overall, I'm not very impressed with the girls I see on the streets. The city girls are very high maintenance.

I find the girls from some parts of southern Anhui and Jiangxi to be quite exquisite. And they tend to keep their looks and stay young looking well into their thirties and even forties. Some girls from the north (I have seen a couple very pretty second cousins from Shandong) are also pretty, but their features tend to coarsen up a bit as they age.

good posts, le fantome...

skibum: with that title, you need to write a book: The Blinging of America
- How affluenza infected the American people and what to do about it...

would it sell as well as that current mega-title 'Godless: The Church of Liberalism', i wonder?

SQT,

Naturalness is to my liking. Extreme thinness conveys a strange sense of exquisitness in an overwrought culture (or civilization). When a society is in ascendency, wholesomeness tends to be exalted. Think both the male and female figures in Rubens' paintings, the paintings from Tang Dynasty (China) and photos of society women in 1900 (US of A).

Astrid,

Agreed. I was in Anhui last year, attending an MSR Asia retreat in Yellow Mountain. Quite impressed by the women staff at the resort. One night, I came back from the feast and went to the hotel bar. Had a great chat with the bartenderess. Was interrupted by two western researchers (from MSR-A) who demanded drinks even though it was after hours. I had to politely tell them to go elsewhere. I was tempted. But she was married with a son and a stay-home husband. So ... I actually enjoy talking with sensible women without any pressure for marriage shit. One learns much about their perspectives on things, especially on us men.

Anyway, you are almost correct. But in Shanghai, there's something extra to the physical appearance. The culture (the old one) adds to the allure of a woman. It is the same in Paris. Women in Southern France are arguably better looking. But Parisianne women have a different air about them.

But the high maintenance and fickleness (and other things, fill in the blank) in Shanghainess women could be davastating. I once had to flee the city during a springbreak to check out fresh meadows in the countryside of Hangchow. But I was disappointed.

But, it's a good place to start, especially for westerners.

Beijing (Peking) is very nice. I was quite impressed by the new night club district (around the lakes) and the girls I saw on my last night out with my Shanghai buddies. I commented to them how nicer Beijing is than our previous prejudices. They agreed. Had I stayed longer, I'd date a girl there. But then again, one has to be careful. She may just want to come to US of A.

I would love a non-US woman who tries to convince me to emigrate instead of the usual other way around.

Does anyone listen to E. F. any more?

I am not such a clever one
About the latest fads
I admit I was never one
Adored by local lads

Not that I ever try to be a saint
I'm the type that they classify as quaint

I'm old fashioned
I love the moonlight
I love the old fashioned things

The sound of rain
Upon a window pane
The starry song that April sings

This year's fancies
Are passing fancies
But sighing sighs holding hands
These my heart understands

I know I'm old fashioned
But I don't mind it
That's how I want to be
As long as you agree
To stay old fashioned with me

(bridge)

I'm old fashioned
But I don't mind it
That's how I want to be
As long as you agree
To stay old fashioned with me

Oh won't you stay old fashioned with me
Oh please stay old fashioned with me

CG,

Well, they say Suchow and Hangchow (huh? I'm kind of surprising you switched to Wade Giles) women are the epitomy of femininity in China, but quite average looking.

I find physically frail women come into vogue when the men in a society feel threatened; they use thinness to cultivate an aura of female vulnerability and help the male self esteem. It's just like foot binding. Also like foot binding, this society fetishizes thinness and ignore other physical attractions - so a beautiful full figured girl is considered less desireable than a more plain stick figure.

Rail thinness is coming into vogue in Shanghai(I understand it's very fashionable in Taiwan and Hong Kong), but it's still not mainstream. Most of the girls are actually quite fit because they walk and bike so much and can't afford high fat, high sugar western style snack foods.

The hottest women I have ever met were two girls from South Africa. They had the fine facial features of models, the buxom seductiveness of a woman you want to sleep with, and also glowed with athleticism and health. Incredible.

They were like a cross between the idealized Bavaran beauties in a Leni Reifenstahl movie, but without any of the cookie-cutter creepiness, Daisy Duke, and a girl on the cover of Vogue. Damn.

The women I met weren't in the fashion industry or anything; they were just regular women here on vacation. But I've never met anyone more beautiful.

I'd also like to give a shot out to the corn-fed beauties of my native Midwest. A lot of them tend to pack on the pounds after marriage and children, it's true, but many remain attractive.

Midwestern women also have a fashion sense (or a lack thereof) that prevents them from disguising their wholesome beauty. During the "grunge" era of the 90's, you'd see a lot of young women walking around in Doc Maartens, baggy jeans, sweatshirts, and facial piercings. They may have been beautiful undneath all of that shapeless fabric and metal, but it was almost impossible for the casual observer to tell. But the women of the Midwest never made that mistake, they eschewed those hideous outfits for more traditional fashions that emphasized their feminine beauty.

Thanks all, I didn't mean to to sound whiney or defeatist. It's hard making the nesessary adjustments anywhere. I have been to Charleston and Savannah since I've been here. Both rich in history and culture but those area cost as much or more than california. In fact just about all of the southern coastal areas require big bucks.

I've found that southerners have some pre-concieved notions about us west coasters (not always good). They are very old money and family history is everything. It's more your family name that makes you somebody here. If you are from somewhere else you're an outsider. It's kinda Mayberry everyone knows everything about everyone. That can be good or bad depending on who you are.

The churchy people rule.. even to the state goverment they have laws about what you can or cannot buy on Sundays. You can't buy booze except by state run stores and not at all on Sunday. More churches per sq. city block than I've eve seen in my life. Yeah it's different.. The most surprizing thing is alot of illegals have migrated here. Business is only to happy to use slave labor here as well. I think that problem we have in cali is being exported throughout this country. Hey Muggy I own my car outright and only have about 7k in total debt. I can't afford health insurance anymore that scares me cause I'm in my 40's. My boyfriend can't find a decent paying job here so we are thinking maybe another 4-6 months then we pull up stakes again. I don't think my company is going to commit to offering a stable situation. IT's that whole outsider thing I feel.

I was hired to open a second location for an established AGS jewelry store. I've got 16 years in the business and am almost done with my Gemologist credentials. I thank ll of you for your insight and input.

Sylvie

"Churchy people rule"

Sylvie, Oregon is anything but "churchy" and we've had state run booze barns for years. Up until very recently you couldn't get a fifth on Sunday. For years they closed at 6:00pm on SATURDAY and didn't reopen until Monday at 11:00am. Not out of any respect for "the big guy" but b/c everyone in Oregon knows that "where there's dope, there's hope", where there's booze you lose"! Pot is a misdemeanor here but we've consistently had some of the LOWEST B.A.C in the union! Now the OLCC (Oregon Liquor Control Commission) is taking their show to the rivers and lakes and they have found an entirely NEW source of revenue!

It's the season so it may now be appropriate to comment on something that is almost taboo in Oregon (as well as other states).

Michael Anderson and I discussed the alcohol ban on the Deschutes River as it comes through Bend. Lots of politics (and plenty of BS).

We have many "alcohol related" summer time incidents here in OR. Let's look at things a little closer.

Joe Dickhead does a swan dive off a 40' cliff into a swift and swollen Clackamas River. Joe isn't found until three weeks later by dentist fly fishing downstream. Joe's friends claim that Joe was "drinking heavily" that day. (What Joe's "friends" neglect to mention is that he'd been up for 72 hours on a meth binge, smoked an entire baggie of refer and the only alcohol he'd actually used was to wash down some "shrooms" JUST before the fatal plunge! Are any of us naive enough to think that Joe's "friends" are stupid enough to "cop" to any of that? And so it is recorded as another senseless "alcohol related" death.

Lefantome,
You brought up something that I am doing as well: writing to local newspapers and various local leaders. Many people like to place the entire burdon of blame for the continous cycle of RE booms and bursts in California on prop 13 and low interest rates. But the truth is that during the early 70's, there was a fairly structured popular grass roots movement to "protect" California from overdevelopment. The movement swept throughout most of the state in the form of hundreds of local regulations. Here in Alameda, the legislation passed in 1973 was measure A, which made building multi family units illegal and basically brought building anything new to a screeching halt. The result was a vaccum that had the effect that is classic for california and it's roller coaster cycles.
I think it's about time for a new wave of grass roots movements to occur to reverse these policies. Therefore I have been writing to various local politicians and the local newspaper, of which the editor has actually been very open and agreeable to publishing some of the comments I've made. Our small city is also governed by various citizen voting groups, like the league of Alameda women voters. I have written to several of these groups as well.
In order to get things changed, things need to occur first at the local level.

Sylvie,
You're living in a specific location in a HUGE region that takes up almost 25% of the country.People incorrectly place the entire south into one generic lump.... then go on to compare this entire region to California. I'm a southern native and let me tell you that you should travel some more in the region. Coastal areas will always be more expensive. Diffrent regions in the south can be entirely diffrent. There is a lot of diversity. I have a friend that lives in Charleston. Indeed Charleston is diffrent from California, but it is also completely diffrent from North Carolina, Alabama, Arkansas, and Tennesee. Even diffrent parts of diffrent states are totally diffrent. My home state, TN has three vastly diffrent regions. East TN is in the mountains and has small mountain cities like Knoxville. Middle TN is on a plateau and is where Nashville is located, which is an entirely diffrent culture from East TN. West TN is in the river delta, warmer, and has Memphis, which in my opinion could be the sister city to Oakland.
What's more is that most of the areas not on the coast are about 5 times cheaper than the areas you've investigated. Homes in East TN are still easily found for way under 100k. Homes even in popular cities like memphis are in the 120-150k range, and some of the quaint small towns in the Blue Ridge Parkway in NC can be had for about the same.
Again- I'm amazed that people from California- a state that's supposed to be progressive thinking have such a big problem with people that are religious. It's not like they're going to jump you and MAKE you believe what they want you to believe. I hear this from almost every single person who isn't from the region. yet I can live here and listen to liberals, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, and yes- even Babtists discuss their beliefs and guess what? It's ok with me.

Michael Anderson,

The truth is that I can't swim either! However, I can tread water forever. Public pools in Chicago were so rare and so crowded that unless you joined a swim team it was more about jumping up and down an splashing other kids. I can "dog paddle" my way to shore though thank you. Rafting without a life vest (at any age) is risky at best.

In our neck of the woods, people were always having bad accidents involving boats. We had a bunch of man made lakes which were huge, as in over a mile across in some instances. Guys would get little speed boats and drop in a 350 Chevy engine. Those things would fly close to 100 MPH on the water. The most common accidents would be people having collisions. There are no speed limits, and you CAN drink as well. That's asking for trouble.

SFWoman,

I'm 5' 10" and I weigh TWO twenty six! AND I walk every where I go too! Perhaps it's your discipline in refraining from that "second" twelve pack that is your secret?

SHTF,

Alcohol and boating don't mix. Period. I just wish you could see the level of harrassment here on the Columbia and Willamette Rivers on the weekend! 40 something couples done for the day and at anchor being hassled 2 and 3 times by different "agencies" it's just incredible. Here in Oregon there's no job like a state/county job and cruising the river all day and getting paid for it these guys are more than willing to "create" violations. It's so bad, people are staying off the rivers altogether.

That's interesting and surprizing. I knew about "herb" acceptance there that would never fly in the"bible belt".

I'm sure somewhere in the vastness that is this country there will a place that resonates with me. Until then, I'll travel around wherever I can find a job that pays decent.

Since we're on the subject, some of you might wonder where the term:" bible belt" came from. It came from a natural geological disaster in 1811. One of this country's biggest earthquakes ripped through TN, NC, GA, and LA. The quake was so large ir created a large lake in middle TN. Throughout the summer, there was a sucession of smaller quakes.
Prior to 1811, the south wasn't particularly religions.Many of the inhabitants had escaped Ireland, where religious persecution and heavy taxation given to the catholic church was fresh on their minds, thus religion wasn't a particular interest. There was so little relgion that parishes from the NE were concerened and made annual journeys to the region to " put the fear of god into the heathen immoral masses in the applachias."
The quake of 1811 created the perfect opportunity for preachers to set up small tents, known as revivals throughout the region. This practice still goes on today. They were sucessfull, and the heavily religious population that exsists there now is a direct result of this natural disaster.
Follow the locations of the largest bible publishing companies in the country and you can almost trace the fault line right under their foundations. The fault created a new "belt" over the top of an ancient one, hence the term " Bible belt" corrlates with this natural occurence.

I'll always keep one foot in the door as far as california. Wishful thinking maybe? If by some miraculous accident things are obtainable there again I'll defintely return. By the way I'm on EST on CNBC Bernake is on sweating bullets answering questions about this looming uncertainty\recession. It looks ominous

SFWoman Says:

> I find anorexic thinness disgusting and obesity disgusting.
> Both to me indicate an obsession with food in an extremely
> unhealthy way. When I lived in NY in the early 1980s about
> 1/4 of the women I knew had eating disorders (on the thin side)

In SF more than half the well educated single women I know have major food issues. Most women of European decent in their 20’s and 30’s would be a “little chunky” if they ate a normal healthy diet. These women realize that most well educated single guys don’t like “chunky gals” so they starve themselves to look hot in their $300 jeans and $1,000 ball gown. Men have been hard wired to be attracted to young thin fit females since we lived in caves so more a 32 year old gal looks like a super hot thin 19 year old the more she will get asked out (and the more a 32 year old looks like chunky 44 year old aunt Edna with her manicured nails the less she will get asked out).

> I went up to southern Oregon probably half the women I saw
> were significantly overweight. We went to the Shakespeare
> festival in Ashland, and I had several women sitting within a
> few seats of me who probably topped 300 lbs. They had coiffed
> hair and were wearing makeup and had manicures, but were
> probably slowly dying of congestive heart failure. Also, several
> of them ate Mentos throughout the plays. (I am going to start
> paying attention to who I see eating Mentos, it was peculiarly
> fascinating. Maybe they sold them in the shop or something.)

My Mom always told me about the connection between chunky ladies and manicured nails (sure there are exceptions, but generally the nicer the nails the fatter the lady) but I have never heard that mentos are the snack of choice for chunksters…

We live in a time of plenty. It’s difficult to fast for even one day in our society. You can eat better now than ever in the history of the world. The difference in the quality and variety of produce all year even since I was a kid is incredible.

Regarding America's weight problem, what I find interesting is that study after study has shown that obesity is highly correlated with poverty. Contrary to the idea of abundance of food in the US, it seems obesity is more likely a consequence of food choices and availability. Notice how many more fast food restaurants there are in poorer locales. Also, walk down the "middle aisles" of a Whole Foods vs. Cala Foods. The amount of unhealthy prepackaged, partially hydrogenated, fructose corn syrup crap in the latter is astounding. But even in these stores, one can eat better by avoiding that crap. However, most Americans choose to go with the prepackaged crap.

Men have been hard wired to be attracted to young thin fit females since we lived in caves so more a 32 year old gal looks like a super hot thin 19 year old the more she will get asked out (and the more a 32 year old looks like chunky 44 year old aunt Edna with her manicured nails the less she will get asked out).

I'd have to disagree slightly (except for the aunt Edna part). I believe psychological studies have demonstrated that men are more naturally attracted to what would be considered bodies designed for child-rearing: round hips, a "normal" amount of body fat - not thin - and certainly not obese. I think there's a dichotomy today between what "real" on the street men find attractive (non-anorexics) and the Hollywood and particularly high-fashion world physiques (skin and bones). Personally, I find most high-end fashion models repulsive (I don't mean the Heidi Klums or Giselle Bundchens, I mean the weird looking models for Prada, Dolce + Gabbana, Luis Vuitton, etc.

I'm a prettyn small guy ( 5 ft 7, 135-40 pounds or so) and whenever I get on the plane back home to TN, I'm AMAZED at how many enormous people there are sitting there with me. When I get off the plane, sometimes I have to aclimate to the fact that virtually 75% of the people in the region are overweight. That said, I've never been attracted to thin women. I'll go to the grocery store and pass by the magazines full of women with no breasts, hips, thighs, or anything else. Just a frame with a pretty face and hair. This was a big problem for me when I was single because the kind of women I liked were usually bigger than I was, which in our silly society seems to be a taboo thing. My wife is around 6 ft tall and sort of curvy, so I got lucky. Still- we are a rarity. I don't think about it anymore since we've been together for so long, but from time to time I notice that there are very few women that are taller than their husbands.

I think Bernake caused a rally of sorts thirty minutes ago. He made it seem like there will be a pause in fed raising rates. Seems while he was on the hotseat he was afraid to tell it like it is. Sort of side stepping specifics this read as all is well and the stock market went nuts.

My take on the too thin/too fat thing is that, now that the First World has overcome the perennial problems of food/water/shelter, people's insecurites need to find a new channel.
They may not have much control over their lives, but the one thing they can 'control' is thier calorie intake. Hence the thinner you are the 'better' you are.

Of course, there's always been Ectomorphs who couldn't put weight on if they ate the entire contents of a Ralphs in one sitting ;-)
My husband's like that - I only have to look at food and on go the pounds - he can sit down and eat my entire weeks calorie intake in one sitting and never break into a sweat. Bastard ;-)

Not that long ago, beautiful women were healthy and curvy. It showed that not only was she eating enough, she was 'rich' enough to eat a little bit more.
Not to say that men haven't liked slim women since the dawn of time, but a few extra pounds (just a few, we're not talking 'two-stoolers' here) weren't looked at as being revolting either.

Horses for courses, innit?
My husband is a foot taller than me, and on one seems to think it strange. I've never really understood why it can't be the other way round, S--H-T-F.

Then again, I'm 8 years older than my husband, which does raise some eyebrows. Still, as we both act as if we have the combined age of 12, its never really been a problem to us

speeding bullet,
My grandparents were similiar. My grandad was 12 years older than my grandmother. Again- it seems ok for the guy to be older, sometimes a lot older than the woman, and not for the woman to be older. To me, we're in a modern society and women are just as equal as men, so I've always acted that way. I never insisted on always paying for everything, opening doors, and being overly courteous to women. Me and my wife split tasks, money, and responsibility right down the middle, yet I still know a lot of women who essentially are entirely dependt on their husbands for their financial well-being, or expect the man to " take care" of some of the hairy life details. Not sure how I turned out like I did since many women back home were still housewives in the 50's term.

tannenbaum,

"Indicators of market distress are still largely absent"

Well, unless you're one of the 3,000+ (or should I say -) that haven't been able to sell your home this year vice last? Marshall Prentice doesn't find it distressing that home sales are down 24% ?

BB is in a tight spot. I believe given his academic credentials, he's a true believer in controlling inflation as priorty #1. However, he does appear to cave in to stronger personas during testimony, and it makes you wonder how beholden he is to political influences (ie, let's keep the money loose so the masses are happy and the incumbents stay in power). the elephant in the room is that everything right now just reeks of looming inflation, despite what the government tries to do to manipulate statistics and indicators. My bet is BB really wants to whomp inflation with more rate increases, but he will feel extreme pressure from the powers that be to go easy. Maybe one more quarter % and then a pause.

Skibum,

Kind of wondered that myself. When ever someone makes a statement, then asks me "what's my reaction to that" I usually go one of two ways. Firstly ask them if that was a question or a statement, or turn it around and ask them "how long is a piece of rope" (or something like that).

These are basic "verbal self defense tools" that evidently BB has yet to master.

I’m thinking it’s rope-a-dope. He just puts his hands in front of his face during these encounters, then he does what he has to do.

I sure hope you're right. There's probably a strong desire in him not to become the Fed governor who let the inflation monster rear its ugly head again.

SFWoman,

I remember seeing a special where British researchers ultimately came to the conclusion that western man's natural proclivity to gain weight is that we are the "survivors". Meaning simply in times of famine it was difficult for more frail humans to survive (let alone reproduce) so the more "sturdy" among us tended to be able to survive these lean times. Their conclusions not mine.

I think it also goes back to our 'Monkey Brains'...we've spent the last X million years simply trying to get enough to eat...all of a sudden in the Western World there's a huge surplus of food,

But no one's told our Monkey Brain that its OK not to stuff ourselves silly in case of a famine. We're probably not as 'evolved' as we think we are...

DinOR,

Native Americans (both from NA and Latin America) seem to suffer particularly for their thrifty genes. The few times I've been to Indian reservation, almost everyone seems to be overweight. Blacks seem to also suffer more compared to whites. Unlike whites, they seem to pack on pounds very early and the have health problems a lot earlier.

American culture is really unhealthy overall. Everything scream out at you to consume too much: too much food, too many shoes, too much car, even too much thinness.

Oh, I hear you......

I think the ready available of ready to eat food also really encourages overeating. It used to require hours of prep time to get a meal going and now you just have to open a baggie and take out some dip. If our snacking was restricted to fresh fruits and vegetables (especially ones gathered from the garden or from daily markets), there would be much less temptation to overeat.

Even without buffets, the portions in this country are just huge. I have a very "healthy" appetite but it's really hard to finish an appetizer and an entree at most restaurants.

Yeah, 6 months after coming to the States I'd put on 30 pounds...most of which I'm still trying to shed.

I'd made the common mistake of trying to finish what was on my plate. Being used to smaller UK portions, not to mention a healthy amount of excerise a week (2 miles walking a day just going to/coming from work, let alone the weekends) my weight ballooned.

Still, I'd had instilled into me as a child to finish everythng on my (reasonalby portioned) plate and that to waste food was a sin.
Forget evoloutionary factors, a Mother's Guilt Trip will get you every time...; )

Being used to smaller UK portions

Try going to restaurants with smaller portions. Alternatively, eat 2 appertizers instead of 1 entree. You can also ask the restaurant to split the entree for you and your companion. I cannot stand large portions.