patrick.net

SFWoman,

So basically what we're saying here is the first X amount of kilowatt hours (keeping the lights on for security and a fan) you are charged a B/E from your power provider.

The next increment (normal folks, normal useage) you're charged X + a dime per k/h

The next increment (outdoor heated pool types) you're charged X + a quarter per k/h?

Seems reasonable to me! How difficult would that be to enforce?

Cutting off poor people’s utility lines just because wealthier people want their second homes cooled is not a good solution.

It is a good solution:

1. people will be more inclined to vote for building new power plants
2. people will alter their lives to optimize cost effectiveness

Both will minimize the chance of future power problems, lowering costs for everyone in the long run.

I'd love to check out solar panels!
Its one of the 'improvements' that I personally think actually improves a house. It seems insane that in CA you wouldn't have solar panels as standard by now.

SFWoman:
What do McMansion owners have against solar panels anyway? Not being disingenuous, just curious.

Nuclear power doesn't have greenhouse gases, but it is very expensive to build and perceived to be very risky by the population. There's also a minor waste disposal issue.

I'd actually like to see breeder plants, but those definitely need close supervision at each step.

As to solar panels. I believe that some "green" homes already go on the grid and they pay the difference between their input and their output, so I think the technology for measuring generation capacity is already there.

Seems reasonable to me! How difficult would that be to enforce?

Will the schedule be per customer, per household, or per resident? It is too difficult to figure out.

me,

We have tried on several occasions to get nearly identical legislation on the ballot out here in OR (where we have NO sales tax). I did some volunteer work for the org. and all I ever heard was that "this is a sales tax" and the ONE tax we don't have in OR is a sales tax and now you and your group want to implement that?

It was enormously frustrating, but still a very worthy cause. Think of all of the agencies and departments we could do away with. The sad truth is that only about 40 to 60 cents on the dollar (in OR anyway) actually goes toward what you were paying tax on in the first place. The rest? Well it goes toward making sure that agency or dept. has the money to continue to run! It's so self defeating.

Peter P,

Most households only get ONE bill. Let THEM fight over who's hogging all the k/h's! Just like they fight over Skinemax on the cable bill and racking up cell phone bills. Sounds like a family problem to me!

Peter P,

Long term, both groups may be able to adjust, but the short term pain for the poor seems rather unfair. While the social Darwin/Malthusian me wants to see bad genes (poverty prone genes? warm bloodedness?) ripped from the gene pool, the more humane side of me does not want to see unnecessary human suffering.

I agree with you on the hoped for long term outcome, though I also doubt the political feasibility of denying the poor utility services.

I do like to see the full cost of energy weighed in for living in places with -30 winters or 110 summers (Danville? I heard Pleasanton got above 110 last weekend) sink into the cost of housing. That ought to depress Las Vegas RE prices some more.

Peter P,

I liked your original suggestion, and I'm pro nuke but SFWoman's direct solution seemed the most viable short term. It can always be refined later.

I liked your original suggestion, and I’m pro nuke but SFWoman’s direct solution seemed the most viable short term. It can always be refined later.

I just worry that the utility company will have to run an "IRS" just to figure out the correct charge. Once you have a progressive schedule, you may want to be "fair" to large families. Then you may need to be "fair" to people with special needs... The result: a utility "return" every month.

I suppose I’ll do an automatic generator (maybe on the propane line) until someone invents a decent battery.

I think you can get a 20kW automatic generator for around 10K.

WRT to energy generation, devices like solar panels will reduce your load on the grid. IOW, the spinning disk on your meter doesn't spin as fast, and you don't get charged as much.

If you generate more than you use, that power gets fed back into the grid, and you get a credit on your monthly utility statement.
anecdote: http://www.insidebayarea.com/business/ci_4023047

The problem is solar panels are expensive; a few years back we looked at what it could cost for a SFH, and the breakeven point was close to 20 years, which would also have been the estimated lifespan of the panels.

Peter P,

There's only so many boxes. The per capita thing could be capped to some reasonable size (5 or 6 people). Or it could go by tax records.

I don't like exceptions either. If there's a special need that require a very large amount of energy, they can install some solar panels or beg for a government voucher of some sort. There's no reason for the utility company to get involved in that sort of decisiion making.

Lots of great posts on "nanny government"/en loco paraentis/moral hazards from Conor, SF Woman, Randy, Peter, DinOR, etc.

I feel very late to the party here (am swamped at work right now), but I here is a slightly tailored variant of a post I recently made on Ben's blog, which I think is very apropos:

"Perhaps the problem isn’t with “evil banks” for lending or even “stupid consumers” for borrowing. Perhaps it’s with the new American political culture of “consequence-free” debt-based fake prosperity. Over the past 20 years, the Fed, Congress and successive Administrations have done everything in their power to ensure a never-ending supply of cheap money. And consumers have (surprise, surprise) done everything in their power to spend it as fast as it’s created.

Whenever the perpetually open credit spigot creates problems (S&L failures/RTC, LTCM, NASDAQ bubble, RE bubble, etc.) the taxpayer just “rides to the rescue” and bails out Mr. banker (and to a lesser extent, Mr. FB).

Privatize profits, Socialize risk.

Without any downside risk to the banks for making bad loans, and without much downside risk to the borrower, why should we expect them to behave otherwise? Why should we expect people or institutions who receive little-to-no pain (but plenty of rewards) for reckless borrowing and spending to ever stop repeating this behavior?

Risks and rewards are colossally misaligned under today’s system."

HARM,

Great summation, never too late to add common sense! You're absolutely right, there have been little if any consequences for lenders (or borrowers) and the last thing an out of control party needs is "another" keg!

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

--author unknown (often mis-attributed to Alexander Tytler)

Peter P,

I can't speak for other utilities but our Portland General has subsidized the aluminum smelters up here for years. They get HUGE breaks for creating employment. That is for those of you that would want to work at a smelter plant in July. So the system is already set up for different users paying different rates.

As a consumer (I) have tried to be very aware of the amount of power we run through. Where my wife is concerned though any apparel item that's been worn once is FILTHY! When we had both kids at home the "laundry" was ALWAYS open. Had she been charged out the ying yang (as she should have been) I think we could have gotten her to reconsider her definition of "filthy". I swear that machine would come on Friday afternoon and the dryer was STILL humming away Sunday night for the final load of clothes. Out of control I tell you!

I just find it incredible that six people were killed over an Xbox. And now those responsible are to live on taxplayer money for many years to come.

What is wrong with these people?

Peter P,

Maybe a strict utilitarian would advocate public stoning, to ward off similar behavior in the future. :) Hopefully they won't breed while they're in jail.

Maybe a strict utilitarian would advocate public stoning, to ward off similar behavior in the future. Hopefully they won’t breed while they’re in jail.

Perhaps not stoning. Hanging as a method of judicial execution is more humane and is just as effective.

I thought you are a strict utilitarian. :)

I believe the guillotine is more humane than hanging. If your neck doesn’t snap immediately you strangle to death.

Yes, but it is also important to control bloodborne diseases. :) Anyway, none of the convicted murderers were humane to their victims.

I vote for public hanging. To the Anglophiles, very English.

To the Anglophiles, very English.

I will bring fish and chips, with malt vinegar. :)

I am very disgusted with criminals. They'll brutalize and harass people for small gains but lack the ambition to fight for real glory and kingdoms. But this world is saturated with criminals, petty offenders, and bullies of all kinds. Many get away with what they do because the stake is so small that they don't receive appropriate punishment.

"Perhaps not stoning. Hanging as a method of judicial execution is more humane and is just as effective."

Really? I thought that the level of painfulness served as deterrence. Isn't that why drawing and quartering is reserved for the worst offenders. The Chinese Qing emperors used to concoct rather elaborate tortures (mostly for confessions and their private amusement) and was at the forefront of deterrence by punishing your relatives. (write something offensive to your emperor, get all your second cousins exiled to the Chinese equivalent of Siberia) Now that's a level deterrence the Bush administrate can't even dream about.

The problem with the current system of capital punishment is that it's terribly unshowy while still being quite cruel. We're still killing people via the criminal justice system; not only is it expensive and make no sense for a financial prospective, but the highly clinical aspect really takes out the fear and deterrence aspect of the punishment.

We need a cost effective way to deal with criminals. The prison system is just too expensive to run.

Peter P,

Have you ever seen Battle Royale? I haven't but read the plot points from a couple reviews, and I never understood the logic behind forcing a bunch of 9th graders to kill themselves.

Have you ever seen Battle Royale? I haven’t but read the plot points from a couple reviews, and I never understood the logic behind forcing a bunch of 9th graders to kill themselves.

I have not... but I am planning to watch in the future.

The Japanese is very good at producing dystopian films. They do not usually explain the logic though. "Huh?" is my usualy response.

The problem with the current system of capital punishment is that it’s terribly unshowy while still being quite cruel. We’re still killing people via the criminal justice system; not only is it expensive and make no sense for a financial prospective, but the highly clinical aspect really takes out the fear and deterrence aspect of the punishment.

I totally agree. There should be real-time TV broadcasts of criminals begging for their lives, crying for their mommies before they are put to rest for good.

Deterence by punishing the relatives? How, by bulldozing their houses? What did they do?

Perhaps they can be punished by being forced to pull the lever of the gallow.

help wanted

I am looking for an inexpensive AMD 64 box to build my own web server. Any recommendations? I intend to run Linux on it. What's considered a good price? 1GB mem, 200 GB disk.

I intend to run Linux on it.

Bill will be so disappointed. :(

So be it.

GC: Since I haven't built a system in ages, I just run over to ars Technica at http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/system-guide-200606.ars and check out their recommendations. (Their budget box is an AMD64, and comes out to just under $800.) The other benefit is that they go into it component by component and list alternatives, so you can use it as a good starting point for your own choices.

SFWoman: Punishment is intended to provide deterrence, and sometimes education (rehabilitation?). If someone committed treason or other crimes in certain societies, it was common practice to execute some family members as well. Personally, I favor punishments meant to educate, and moving to punishments meant to deter once someone has shown that they are gaming the system.

Personally, I favor punishments meant to educate, and moving to punishments meant to deter once someone has shown that they are gaming the system.

I agree. The prison system can be replaced by a 3tier system:

1. social service (education/correction)
2. flogging (correction/punishment)
3. execution (punishment/deterrence)

There is no reason to have a prison system at all.

It's always fun comparing news sources. The actual set of stories going around seems quite diverse, but the subset presented on say, sfgate.com can wildly differ from that on cnn.com (speaking of world news, of course).

I've heard that Fox news with the volume off vs. Fox news with the volume on is also an interesting comparison.

The numbers are out for California. Downward trend is firmly established. No surprises here.

http://www.dqnews.com/ZIPCAR.shtm

San Diego has 0 appreciation in median price YOY. Sacramento is -ve. San Mateo is close to 0 (1.3).

It's getting better all the time ...

You have to have some sort of holding facility to hold suspects while you determine guilt, and while appeals are ongoing.

Some short-term detention facilities perhaps.

I do not understand why appeals are necessarily for most crimes though.

For capital crimes, I agree that the convicts be given expedited appeals within three months. If the the appeal fails, execution should be carried out promptly.

Where have Marina Prime and all of the other bulls that were visiting six months ago?

I wonder ...

Watching others do stupid things is enjoyable…….like Steve-O and Chris on Jackass……that “million” dollar house is the skateboard and the stairwell is the loan adjusting…….{don’t try this at (with a) home}……

why do guys do things like 'jackass' in the US given the state of health insurance and health care? they couldn't get insurance for doing those 'stunts'... or is it a case they know they will make so much from the series that they think they will be able to cover the cost of hospital time with the profits?

and it's intriguing that travel insurance for US region is much higher than for europe and many other countries -- it's priced like a 3rd world zone...

we're all stupid compared with hypothetical super intelligent extraterrestrials, so in their view, we would have no rights, and no dignity of personhood. some people here want to cut off respect at the point where someone is stupider than them -- but go no higher, of course. the stupidest 'normal' person alive, i.e. no clear organic brain damage, would still be able to survive admirably well in the wild compared to most animals, as the stupidest person is smarter than the smartest animal (at least in terms of cognitive capacity). in other words, they can't be 'cut from the gene pool' that easily, as they could survive unaided if necessary. note that britain tried to 'excise the convict stain' from society as a policy in the 18th century by transporting convicts to america for relatively trivial crimes against property -- only new 'convicts' quickly arose to take their place due to desperation during a population explosion.

speaking of living in the wild, civilisation seems to make some people stupider than they would otherwise be, e.g. the ideation of 'grizzly man' as filmed by werner herzog -- someone with the luxury of too much thinking time...

Where have Marina Prime and all of the other bulls that were visiting six months ago?

broke... or too busy looking for the 'next big thing' after property topped out, like selling their grandmothers, for instance...