patrick.net

I still think we should be nice to realtors. Most are very honorable people trying to make some money.

The bubble is amoral. Those who sell real estates are not at fault. We are simply seeing greed and fear at work.

Jon, don't lose your sense of humor here. Of course, one can make fun of the "fun & improved taste" of a bag of potato chips. Jay Leno does that all the time. However, don't you suppose when the "agents of change" are assuming being classy and all, and selling $700k cabins 5 ft. away from 880 for a mere 3% commission, their tactics should be above those who are selling bags of potato chips? Guess not ;-)

I still think we should be nice to realtors. Most are very honorable people trying to make some money.

Of course, they mostly are. But down in the line, their jobs will get tougher and tougher. They will have to be more resourceful and creative, and such ad-nauseum classic laughable lines like "charming and cozy", and "caulked and sealed bathtubs" will not be enough for them to sell any more houses.

In addition, with new online listing companies coming to the Bay Area, full-service agents (of change) will face some serious changes for themselves.

Are you a homeowner about to go belly up? Or just a JBR like most of us (but with a strange superiority complex)?

How about all of the above? I know some people who've sold their houses, moved to live in an apartment, and become potato couches living off their home selling proceeds.

Notice to Realtors(tm). If you want to attract me or those like me, here's a suggestion for a listing narrative:

"The waiting is over! Come look at this beautiful home - sellers need out asap! Now listing at half of its 2005 purchase price! Reward yourself for waiting - Sellers willing to provide pool and hot tub cleaning services for 2 years!*"

*Note, Sellers will not be paying for pool & spa service, but actually performing the work themselves.

A topic like this is about as far from encouraging objective debate as you can get. Then there was another one recently, “Should people be allowed to do “stupid” things?” WTF? And I’m the one with the superiority complex? LOL.

Jon,

That thread was Peter P's. Knowing his style, I'm 100% sure it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, and very in keeping with his strongly Libertarian views and sense of humor. It was merely a rhetorical device meant to provoke a debate about government paternalism vs. personal responsibility --not a literal, serious question the way you've interpreted it.

This is an open forum where any registered user can request authoring rights and create their own threads. This is a very good thing, as none of us are getting paid to do this nor have the ability to moderate full-time. If you feel the quality of topics is wanting here, you are more than welcome to create your own. Once you've registered (see the side-bar link on the main blog page), Patrick, SQT, Randy, Peter P or I can grant you authoring rights.

My thanks to brightc for posting this thread, btw.

This topic as posted is not even about whether agents are good or bad (or what makes them good or bad), it’s a strong implication that they’re bad because they talk “sales talk”.

Jon, are you in sales? Do you believe talking that kind of "sales talk" can possibly induce any kind of sales? I mean, if you're selling a condo built next to the Bay Bridge to Richie Rich, I suppose you can use the "peak-a-boo view of the Bay Bridge" and maybe a Tootsie Roll extra for Richie to give a blank check to you. But seriously, do you really think these sleazy lines can appeal to adults who can potentially make an over $500k purchase?

If you don't see these lines as humorous, and defend them as serious, professional "sales talks", then maybe you've just got to grow up a little more.

Cryfest and venting? Oh, come on, Jon. So far, I don't see a lot of anger from anyone else but you. How ironic.

Per Jon's request:

What makes a good (or bad) real estate agent?

My answer: Why do you even care? The real estate agent is a part of the business transaction. What you really want to be certain is that he or she is worth the commission you're about to pay. Still, even if you're working with a dilligent real estate agent who will go to extra lengths of changing your baby kid's diaper, you still have to beware that the real estate agent wants to earn a high commission. Therefore, it is not his or her best interest to help you buy the house with the lowest possible price. If you think your real estate agent is a "good" one, and totally go with what ever he or she tells you, prepare to feel like being backstabbed or kicked in the nuts afterward.

It's a fact of life. It's all business. Yet, here, someone like Jon still think there is such a concept like a "good" or "bad" real estate agent. To me, people who have the kind of sales talks that mention double paned windows, caulked and sealed bathtubs as highlights of a house are not the kind of sales people who are professional, well-trained, and can handle straightforward business transactions with.

I’ve also noticed that if they say “Won’t last long at this price!” it’s usually priced $50k above all the other comps.

How about "Run, don't walk"? :-)

I grew up in South San Jose.

It'll always be just a biker/orchard town.

$700k+ for a house my dad bought for $18k in 1968?

Bwahahahahaaaaaa...ahh...

It'll come crashing down. It will. Trust me. IT'S GOING DOWN!

...biatches...

I do hate the lack of double pane windows in BA apartments. I understand that they're a bit more expensive, but they are much easier to upkeep and have great sound insulation. Ditto with sound insulation, it's not like they cost that much more to build in! I'd be willing to pay a 15% premium for all around good sound insulation. When you think about how much BA rents are, its really ridiculous that these quality of life items are not standard.

It relates because the tactics that real estate agents use are also what the market will bear. Any agent that deliberately handicaps him/herself by not using the tools of the trade, be it purple prose, loan calculators etc. is doing so at a distinct disadvantage to his/her peers.

Real estate agents are free to do whatever they can to sell. For the recent three years, real estate agents can just leave the home descriptions empty and could still make the sales, as the cliche goes, "this house sells itself" (thanks to low interest rate, creative financing, fearless buyers, you name it.)

Nowadays, buyers have much more choices, more "breather room" (another real estate agents' lingo), so it's natural to take a step back and dissect the bs just for the fun of it. I'm not sure a "premium agent" can make much difference compared with the motel 6 counterpart in a slow market. If terms like "shows well" and "caulked and sealed bathtubs" indicate the real estate agent is a premium, creative, resourceful, non-realtwhore kind of agent, then I believe the standards have been sagging down a little too much.

Okay, okay. Let me apologize because I misinterpreted the intent of this topic.

I hope I could've written this topic better. I just want this blog to stay on the housing topic (even if the topic starts straying away from the 50th comment, it's OK).

Why is a house listed for sale with an undisclosed address?

* To gauge demands?

* It's one of Dick Cheney's hiding places?

* Because the house looks like shit, (burbed's example), seller is afraid someone reports to the city to tear it down? Same with a beat-up car running into the risk of being crushed if the city tows it?

* Seller is too ashamed for being a pussy and giving up on the ARM sooner than his peers (my post)?

* All of the above?

I do hate the lack of double pane windows in BA apartments.

astrid, location still counts. I live in an apartment near Rivermark, and with reference to my post, this means I'm also living near to the Amtrak (heavy) rail. My apartment has double pane windows, but that doesn't help. I still hear train noises whenever the train runs by.

So, if a house is in a crappy location, having double pane windows (and having your favorite agent listing it as a feature) won't help.

Astrid,

The first thing we did was tear out the old single paned aluminum framed windows and put in double paned windows. The second thing we did was insulate all around and in the attic.

The house is much warmer, quieter and more pleasant to live in. And it didn't really cost all that much, less than 5% of what we paid for the place. And I think we will get the money back in 10 years of electricity and gas bills. I have no idea why more people don't do it.

We now live next a to busy street, and the apartment does have double-pane windows. They block out noise well only when the windows are closed. What good is that?

Builders do not drive quality. The market does. I guess renters in the west is traditionally cheap, hence low rental quality.

I do not like cheap people.

I remember my geology teacher in college addressing this. He said brick homes are not too safe in earthquake prone areas. I have no explaination for the pizza………..

I have more faith in steel and concrete.

Michael Anderson Says:

When I moved from the east to the west, I was appalled at the single pane windows. I was almost 30, and had never even seen single-paned windows before. It took me a while to realize that people will take the cheap route when they can. Obviously, if your winter is mild, people are going to single-pane.

It makes just as little sense here as it does in the East.
In the summer, cool air from your AC will leech just as effectively out of your single panes, as heat does during East Coast winters.

BTW: don't know if any of you go to housingpanic. I do sometimes, but the troll count can be too high to get a decent discussion going.
Anyway, don't know if you've come across this link:

HP full of brownshirts and flying monkeys...
http://www.bloodhoundrealty.com/BloodhoundBlog/?p=114

The Riposte:
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=18675105&postID=115419641952115661

Sorry, it you've all seen it, but it definatley tickled my funnybone this morning.

When oil was cheap (30 years ago) double paned glass for windows was rarely used -- even in the east. Homes built in the northeast during the last 25 years typically do have double pained glass. The older homes have single paned glass with removable storm windows that are placed over the entire window for the cold season, creating a buffer of air sandwiched between the single paned window and the storm window glass.

Of course, the storm windows cannot be opened. Double paned glass eliminates the need for storm windows while enabling the windows to be opened.

Houses in the east are not built better than those in the west. They are built to address different conditions and consumer tastes. They use different materials and styles accordingly.

Me neither, when I lived in West LA. OK, maybe two or three days a year, during the height of the summer.

Here in sunny Van Nuys, its a different story.

I'm wierd, and keep my AC thermostat at 82 degrees, but the AC still runs almost all day. Largely because the house we're renting has no insulation and single paned windows througout...

MA,

The article you linked from AZ Central was "da bomb". Sellers basically assualting their listing agent b/c HE can't sell the damn thing! Too funny! If someone threw a cell phone (and a totally unprofessional "hissy fit" at me they'd be explaining it to a judge. Sorry, I don't tolerate that kind of behaviour from a child (let alone someone that's supposed to be an adult).

This kind of over emotional response is just what you'd expect from a PIKER! We're bound to see a lot more of it, sadly.

Oh, I'm sorry,

that should be PIKER A$$HOLES!

MA,

Well exactly! I wonder where these sellers got all these unrealistic expectations?

MA,

Try AARP? They should have some good info. Catch you all bright and early Monday where I'll be doing a "victory lap". (USA Today had a FRONT PAGE bubble article that really made my Sunday)!

The best part of MA's linked article, IMHO:

Two houses on the same north Valley street, similar in size and age, are for sale. One lists for $749,000 and the other for $775,000. A third house came on the market on the same street a few doors from the other two. The new listing was similar to the others in size and age but priced at $659,000.

The market has proven everyone wrong. None of the houses had sold as of the third week of this month.

Not only are the angry neighbors clearly naive and immature, but in the end they were all wrong. Even the low-seller overpriced his home. Sadly, I'll bet that the upset neighbors were actually happy about that outcome.

You cannot go broke buying deep in-the-money puts against people's stupidity.

Sadly, I’ll bet that the upset neighbors were actually happy about that outcome.

I will be happy to see these people go broke. Do you think they will literally cry? Too bad workhouses are no longer around for their kids. :-P

I do not enjoy causing despair for the pure anarchistic value of such. If my actions, as a would-be buyer, cause human suffering to people like this then it is not because I am masochistic. It is because they are any combination of naive, ignorant, greedy, polyanniac, or delusional. It is only the last one which causes me some sympathy, because it is likely a state of genuine mental illness, and potentially a product of poorly inherited brain chemistry.

That their children may also suffer does not trouble me in that it may be a lesson to them contrary to their tendency to want to emulate their parents in their own futures.

I have been lowballing; usually about 50%+ off asking, or within 10% of any purchase price 5 years ago. I suspect some of these offers have caused some expletives to be uttered. I don't expect any of these to be accepted yet, but I can write offers for free so it provides valuable feedback.

hee hee, who posted this:

As an experienced RE professional (3 years), I can confirm that it's a new paradigm, and everybody who doesn't buy, now, will be priced out forever. Anybody who does buy will be rewarded with a lifetime of riches, as their property will continue its 30% yearly price increase.

This asset bubble is different than all of the others - it will never slow down, or pop. The gains are permanent.

i nearly flamed a different bloodhound realty topic, but restrained myself at the last minute...

MA,

Yet another example of my mantra that very few people really, when faced with reality, favor free markets or capitalism in general. I have a belief that almost all average people are soc'list when they're losing, capitalist only when they're winning. Of course, that means they're not capitalist at all.

If that poster truly "has the patience" then he/she shouldn't really care about what comps are selling for now, only in 10 years.

I have lowballed only 3 times with actual offers so far; all within the past couple of months. I have been making verbal offers/inquiries/feeling-outs for the past 6-8 months. At first the selling agents claimed they would not even present the lowball to their clients. However, all my actual firm offers have been presented, which I guess is actually required legally of the agents.

I received 1 no-response, where the agent wouldn't even return voice mails or emails. 1 verbal response (the one above recently), and one firm counter offer. The counter offer was for above asking price, which I queried their agent about how that was conceivable and was told innocently "hmmm, maybe they have multiple offers?". That home didn't sell and was taken off the market and rented out about a month ago.

I do not enjoy causing despair for the pure anarchistic value of such. If my actions, as a would-be buyer, cause human suffering to people like this then it is not because I am masochistic.

This is why you are a nicer person than myself. Human misery will not go away. Thousands of people are starved to death every day.

I have not lowballed yet because I afraid it may harm my agent.

I am a little angry at the neighbors who are listing below me, as they don’t really care about me.

I wonder what this person has done for the world lately. Why should anyone care about him?

I have a belief that almost all average people are soc’list when they’re losing, capitalist only when they’re winning.

This is why market social-ism is so popular in Europe. :)

I have a belief that almost all humans are capable only of fake compassion. This is why we should save ourselves from hypocrisy and be mean. :evil:

I think I “get” that one. They felt insulted. Wanted you to feel insulted. I have the feeling you weren’t insulted. Probably laughed, didn’t you?

LOL. I found it quite amusing. I have a good RE attorney who gave me a template and showed me how to write legal offers on-demand. So my marginal cost is 0; and my emotional cost is 0. Just getting any response at all to a 50% off asking offer is positively satisfying.

I have not lowballed yet because I afraid it may harm my agent.

You do not need an agent in a buyer's market. Invest in a good attorney and play hardball with the selling agent. Then throw anything you don't understand at the attorney. This also has the added advantage of naturally slowing the entire transaction process down by a lot. No "quick close" BS is possible when a lawyer is involved actually reading all that crap they ask you to sign every 3 days.

lol,

i just punched his stats into my "Bubblizer". He's probably screwed because he shouldn't be with that config unless there's more than meets the eye.

I did my part. I flagged that comment to get it taken off. Begging never really appealed to me. At least be creative and pretend you're selling something or providing some kind of entertainment. Don't just grovel.

This piece from the humorist John Clarke (aka Fred Dagg) on becoming a RE agent -- this piece goes back to 1990 or earlier:

This report ... outlines how to go about the business of being a real estate agent (and as things stand at the moment, if you’re not a real estate agent, then you’re being a fool to yourself and a burden to others).

Like so many other jobs in this wonderful society of ours, the basic function of the real estate agent is to increase the price of something without actually producing anything and as a result it has a lot to do with communication, terminology and calling a spade a delightfully bucolic colonial winner facing north and offering a unique opportunity to the handyman.

If you are going to enter the real estate field you’ll need to acquire a certain physical appearance which I won’t bore you with here but, if you’ve got gold teeth and laugh-lines around your pockets, then you’re through to the semis without dropping a set.

But the main thing to master, of course, is the vernacular, and basically this works as follows. There are three types of house:

- "glorious commanding majestic split-level ultra-modern dream homes" that are built on cliff-faces;
- "private bush-clad inglenooks" that are built down holes;
- and "very affordable solid family houses in much sought-after streets" that are old gun-emplacements with awnings.

A "cottage" is a caravan with the wheels taken off. A "panoramic", "spectacular" or "magnificent" view is an indication that the house has windows and, if the view is "unique", there’s probably only one window.

I have here the perfect advertisement for a house, so we’ll go through it and I’ll point out some of the more interesting features.

So here we go, mind the step.

"Owner transferred reluctantly instructs us to sell" means the house is for sale.

"Genuine reason for selling" means the house is for sale.

"Rarely can we offer" means the house is for sale.

"Superbly presented delightful charmer" doesn’t mean anything really but it’s probably still for sale.

"Most attractive immaculate home of character in prime dress-circle position" means that the thing that’s for sale is a house.

"Unusual design with interesting and intriguing solidly built stairs" means the stairs are in the wrong place.

"Huge spacious generous lounge commands this well-serviced executive residence" means the rest of the house is a rabbit warren with rooms like cupboards.

"Magnificent well-proportioned large convenient block with exquisite garden" means there’s no view but one of the trees had a flower on it the day we were up there.

"Privacy, taste, charm, space, freedom, quiet, away from it all location in much sought-after cul-de-sac situation" means it’s not only built down a hole, it’s built at the very far end of the hole.

"A must for you artists, sculptors and potters" means that only an idiot would consider actually living in it.

"2/3 bedrooms with possible in-law accommodation" means it’s got two bedrooms and a tool shed.

"Great buy", "ring early for this one", "inspection a must", "priced to sell", "new listing", "see this one now", "all offers considered", "good value", "be quick", "inspection by appointment", "view today", "this one can’t last", "sole agents", "today’s best buy" means the house is still for sale.

And if ever you see "investment opportunity" in the newspaper, turn away very quickly and have a crack at the crossword.

I plan on buying my home by putting down 20% with a 30 year fixed, but I never see that option on any of the flyers.

Because they think if you can afford 20% DP + 30YR FRM, you should spend twice as much on a house. :)