patrick.net

No one replied? huh?

Actually, it is little too early to say there's double dip or not, and I don't think recent 3 day stockmarket plunge has anything to do with housing market. It's rather a market reaction related to china's exist strategy and obama's bank regulation news. So, let's see what is going to happen for a while before judge this pullback as a sign of double dip.

BTW, I liked Darly Queen's double dip chocolate ice cream corn. :)

well, that's just it... it wouldn't be much of a prediction or even up for discussion if i waited for the dip down to Dow 8000 or so to actually occur...

I've been thinking about when the recession started. It started for me back in January of 2001, when AT&T shut down their rebuild of the cable systems nation-wide. That's about when I started living in recession-mode.

The fact that rich Americans are making a lot of money doesn't really translate into a rise in my personal wealth. The interesting tidbit of GDP numbers is a single person making all the money will show growth, even if 99% of the population is headed down or stale. Also, not including energy and food as inflationary statistics, or counting a car as a car or pills as pills makes these discussions kinda silly.

We've never pulled out, the World and America is finding it harder to be enchanted by this administrations economic spin propaganda.

I doubt this will change the Plunge Protection team's ability to post unfounded growth on Wallstreet though.

Come Monday the PPT will have some other seemingly relevant news making out landish claims of growth and unfounded positive outlook. And the markets will rally again.

We wont grow again until we let our dollar get strong again, we're worried about the wrong index. We've been a strong nation for 80 years, because of a strong dollar.
We're not a third world country with meager needs.
If a working person can't feel growth by nothing more than putting money in the bank and receiving adequate interests, then in our psyche we may as well be a third world country.

The financial sector of the world has every thing to lose by a strong dollar, but the American people have every thing to Gain.

We've rootin for the wrong team for past three years.

The dow is down and dollar is up. I'm a saver, so to me this is great news that makes me ecstatic.

YMMV

DOW 4400 by end of March.

What do u think of Cramers prediction that if Geitner and Bernake lose their posts in Obama Admin.... That the DOW will have a 1000 pt drop minimum?

rmm221 says

What do u think of Cramers prediction that if Geitner and Bernake lose their posts in Obama Admin…. That the DOW will have a 1000 pt drop minimum?

Well... good question.
Active protectors of free(for whom?) market as they are, it makes sense.

rmm221 says

What do u think of Cramers prediction that if Geitner and Bernake lose their posts in Obama Admin…. That the DOW will have a 1000 pt drop minimum?

I think this same fear is why Clinton didn't monkey with the Maestro.

I'm no advocate for Cramers advice... But he does have some sway in public investing mindshare.. He told the public to take any money they needed in the next 5 years out of the market when the Dow was perched around 11000 last fall.... The market proceeded to crash thru March 2009 to 6000. If Geitner and Bernake are marginalized... Like they should be... And less wall street friendly individuals take control... Cramer has a valid argument.

People seem oblivious to the fact that the market is up over 40% in less than a year... That is unprecidented historically.. We will see a major correction... Without any fundamental economic changes the question is not if but when!

"People seem oblivious to the fact that the market is up over 40% in less than a year… That is unprecidented historically.."

Are you kidding? "Oblivious"? How can you ignore it? It scares the hell out of the sound because it's unfounded. Where in the hell is the money coming from?

As the tone of your question suggests, anyone in their right mind was not buying up shares pre March, when the market was on its way to making the 30's look like a walk in the park. Where in the hell did all of that "Seed" money come from, That took the market from 6-7K to damn near 11k in just 6 months?

I suspect that Berneke will be replaced by someone with the exact same policies, just without all the baggage. Either that, or Obama will appoint someone worse.

Never follow the sheep in the front. :)

Current equity valuations have already priced in a V shaped recovery. That is, if there is anything but a full and immediate recovery, stocks are way overpriced.

Unfortunately last week was the worst one for quite some time, and looks like the December house sales numbers are dragging things down further.

Let's see... Outstanding earnings for most stocks.. A LUXURY computer maker Apple has best quarter EVER in history... Bernake gets 4 more years... GDP grows most since 2003..

AND STILL we are teetering close to falling below 10,000 DOW...

If all this "GOOD NEWS" is not helping the stock market rebound than there must be much bigger problems 6 months into the future that everyone's afraid of...

Double Dip Recession/Depression.. here we come.

rmm221 says

If all this “GOOD NEWS” is not helping the stock market rebound than there must be much bigger problems 6 months into the future that everyone’s afraid of…

Me thinks the same. Whole week, I have been seeing money coming out of JPM,GS etc, but, not sure how to make of it. There is something brewing.

Look up the terms "carry trade" and it might explain the market's behavior. If you pay attention, you'll see that the dollar rises and the market falls. The dollar falls? The market rises. Welcome to the lost decade.... Japan's survived in a similar environment for about 15 years. The U.S. is next.

Look up the term "carry trade" and it might explain the market's behavior. If you pay attention, you'll see that the dollar rises and the market falls. The dollar falls? The market rises. Welcome to the lost decade.... Japan's survived in a similar environment for about 15 years. The U.S. is next.

The Great Depression experienced a Sucker's Rally after the crash of 1929. The New York Times reported on March 25, 1930: "Wall Street was in a cheerful frame of mind as a result of numerous vague reports of improvement in business and industry, but the strength in stocks was generally ascribed to the more aggressive activity of professional interests committed to the advance." Sound familiar? Once it "recovered" to its peak in 1930, it didn't see that number again until 1954. Well into the mid 1930’s, the Great Depression was still being referred to by the spin meisters as a “recession.” Unfortunately, we are in a far weaker position as a nation, and as individuals than back in 1929. All the fundamentals of this current economy are completely out of whack. Once the real collapse hits, it will make the depression of the 1930’s look like a picnic.

Not a Victim says

Look up the terms “carry trade” and it might explain the market’s behavior. If you pay attention, you’ll see that the dollar rises and the market falls. The dollar falls? The market rises. Welcome to the lost decade…. Japan’s survived in a similar environment for about 15 years. The U.S. is next.

Great point .. might I add:
Japan did not have the population explosion in the invader/illegal immigrant catagory that America has had for 20 straight years.
Japan sold America and the world lots of cars, electronics, & stuff --- America, zilch
Japan's defaulters commit suicide rather than take a bailout --- Baby-boomers in America have smoked enough dope to believe they deserve all of everything right now and should never be allowed to fail so do not keep score. (mine, mine, mine ,mine)(heads I win, tails you lose)

We have started down a dark path. We were steered this way by liberals, and are being pushed farther into the dark by progressives (communist/leftist/anti-Christian Stalinists - et al). The mental illness of liberalism will leave a big scar on America's soul ....... if we survive what's coming.

I'm reminded of another great world power that thought itself invincible. I believe they called it Rome. America downfall is well underway.

TechGromit says

I’m reminded of another great world power that thought itself invincible. I believe they called it Rome. America downfall is well underway

My lord. This thread is full of drama queens.

rmm221 says

What do u think of Cramers prediction that if Geitner and Bernake lose their posts in Obama Admin…. That the DOW will have a 1000 pt drop minimum?

The "Fast Money" panel of morons as well as some of the comentators, like Steve Leesman (sp?) on CNBC were all saying the same thing. I wonder if the producers were yelling this into their earpieces or if these financial journalists really think like that. It feels a bit conspiratorial when all of a sudden every pundit employed by a media outlet is yelling the same idiotic war cry.

Bernanke's not going anywhere, although the 30 votes against his confirmation were the most ever against a Fed chair confirmation. And it was noted that some senators in "tight election races" voted no. That may indicate some small consciousness on the part of the high and mighty that the people are really angry about the banksters owning this administration (and the last one as well).
Geitner could well be a sacrificial lamb in this year if things get worse.
It couldn't get worse, could it? (duh)

Look out down below... DOW is flirting with dropping below 10,000! I also find it interesting that jobless claims rose unexpectedly overall, but jobless claims had the biggest drop in CA. Hmmm... I find that shocking considering Californias EDD department is so behind and borderline corrupt. There was just an article about how their computer systems dropped75,000 people off the roles by mistake who were due for extensions around Xmas.
Since CA went into the unemployment depression first... Some say they'll be the first to emerge. FALSE. The only reason it looks like CA unemployment is dropping because of fudging of the numbers and incompetence in the system. In fact, anybody on unemployment extensions isn't counted and anyone unemployed for over a year and a half is booted off the numbers. So the only reason CA unemployment appears to be improving is denial of benefits... Which could actually be worse, because now these people will A) move out of CA... B) become homeless C) start committing crimes
There are nearly 100,000 people going without checks in CA for up to 6 months waiting on an APPEAL! Are these people in limbo being counted?

Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway debt downgraded from AAA to AA+

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aJJa3lMphCWs&pos=3

Not a good sign,.