patrick.net

pkennedy says

As far as those who say our standard of living has gone down. I’ve had this conversation with others, and my father always chimes in with
You guys have forgotten what cars where like, how often they broke down. Who had a car that could go 100K without anything going wrong?

Did you guys forget about going to a hospital? How long procedures where?

Do you remember our fuzzy tv’s? How small they were, how crappy they were?

Dealing with vhs tapes?

……
Go into a dollar store and compare all the crap in there, with what it cost to buy in 1980, before stores like wal mart had become really successful at importing. Wages might be stagnant, but what you’re buying with them isn’t. It’s gotten a lot better, and in most cases a lot cheaper.

Sorry all, I havent figured out how to quote so I guess I 'll have to break it down play by play

Marko said :
Troy says

marko says

LandDaddy buys a nice house in 1974 for $30,000 , pays it off over the years and finally rents it to me for $2000 in 2009. Is that greedy ? No.

Troy said :

It’s getting something for nothing. LandDaddy did not exert any action to create this $2000/mo in value to you, other than maintaining the house in a livable state, something that costs maybe $100/mo.

Marko Said:

We could say this about any type of investment where you park money and get a return just by holding and doing nothing. Gold, Oil, Stocks, etc. I know a few people who tripled their money in a matter of days just because they could spell "INTERNET" and they actually have no clue how it all works. Basically I agree with you but my point was that the rent price must be tied to the market and that is what sets the price for rentals. It is not some kind of conspiracy that we could go protest - we just dont rent if the price is too high.

Troy Said:
This is parasitical economics and is a wealth transfer from productive people to unproductive people, on the scale of welfare transfer payments X10.

Marko said:

Same is true about paying taxes to the government, or paying hundreds of thousands of dollars of interest to a bank. A renter does not need to ask where the money goes.

Troy said:

But land is considered capital so it is called investment properties or, euphistically, “income property”. Income properties are why real estate is so expensive and why 30-40% of our income is piddled away on nothing but ground rent, something that nobody created but plenty of people profit from.

Marko said:

All I can say bottom line is that when I rent a SFH in the east bay, I can pay for something that I could not own with my current financial status. $2000 per month for a 1600 sq ft house and 10000sq ft of fruit trees and grass would cost at least 3500 per month based on my financial ability for a small downpayment.

Troy said:

This is because we have front-loaded the perpetual benefits of land ownership into the purchase price. Borrow $700K from the bank now to live rent-free in 2040. Given the way wage inflation works, you’ll be able to pay the $600/mo property tax with a couple hours a week greeting at Walmart.
If owner-occupied single family homes were taxed at 5% for the first thirty years, then held in abeyance until the property title was transfered, everyone could afford a home. (I’d tax non-owner occupied at 10% of site value just to discourage the practice on general principle, to encourage wanna-be landlords to build up and not just assemble their real estate empire from existing stock).

Marko said:

Taxing at 5% !!!!! Wow, that would really help here in California but then everyone who bought a home would all be asking "Where is our money going ? what is it used for ?" I definately trust the landlord with my money much more than the California government. Instead of getting out of debt, they would probably use it on more goofy programs. With my landlord, I already know my money is for the roof , a water heater, a house call from Roto-Rooter, etc. If I dont get that taken care of by the one I pay, then I move.

6 months ago, I extended my lease with a $100 (per month) rent-reduction.
so yes, rents are sliding.

I talk to a few recent grads. None of them are able to find a job and they are sharing a 2BR house with 5 people!

I also heard a lot of foreign workers (H1) are returning home.

REnts are controlled by the 'job market'. Any one remember the go-go years of 1999/2000. Rents were insane! Now the jobs are hard to come by and rents have to come down.

In my complex of 40 units, 10 are empty - that is a 25% vacant rate mind you. And it is a nice complex.

stocksjustgoup says

I’m stubborn. In 2007 I needed to have my own house for my own family. Bigger the better. Now that I’ve been b*tch slapped into reality, I’ll go 9 to a house with my in-laws so-as not to promulgate this insanity.

I've got 3 households under the same roof. My chronic-refugee sister is now saving towards a down payment for an apartment building and my parents aren't worried about money for the 1st time in about 300 years.

Rents are down in 2009 and will continue to decline in 2010 and 2011 just like property values.

Please beware of the deciet being posted that values and rents are stable or going up. In most areas, This is a lie.

If you believe that check out:

www.cyberhomes.com
www.marketwatch.com
www.forbes.com
www.patrick.net

Beware of anyone who makes a profit by getting you to believe their lie. These are the same dishonest realtors, property managers, loan officers who significantly contributed to the grossly over-inflated prices in 2006 and now the housing crisis of 2009, 2010, and into 2011.

Prices will continue to drop. The housing crisis was the biggest lie of the Decade, please do not buy it again.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

Don’t be a fool, rentals and property values are dropping at approximately 20 % per year since 2006.

There is a huge hidden inventory, thosands of distreesed and underwater homes throughout California.

Proceed with caution and calculate future declines in your offer prices and leases.

The research is there and cited in the web-sites.

www.cyberhomes.com
www.forbes.com
www.marketwatch.com
www.patrick.com

Done by experts. The facts speak for themselves. Court house records and real testimonals by victims of the fraud who have lost their equity, life savings, and house will tell you the same. I also speak from personal experience.

If you need further confirmation, open your eyes.

The grossly over inflated housing values of 2006 are over. Get over it and except the fact it was a scam of EPIC proportions and many unsuspecting people hvae been seriously wronged and financially injured by it. Those involved should be held civilly and criminally liable.

pkennedy says

Did you not live here in the bay area in the 70’s? I remember people saying they remembered how brown the skies were back then, before smog pollution rules came into effect. Can you imagine what standard of living we would be in today without those? If not, try visiting a country with 0 smog rules, with a massive population.

Yes I lived in BA back then and No! the sky wasnt brown. Far from it... it more hazy these days compared to the 70s and 80s and a heck of lot cooler weather. Your other points regarding cost of TV is confusing tech deflation. As for cars, yes there are plenty of BMW 325i built back in the 80s i still see around. I usually see 3-6 every day. They are well made, dependable and gas efficient. Not bad!

Gina says

Beware of anyone who makes a profit by getting you to believe their lie. These are the same dishonest realtors, property managers, loan officers who significantly contributed to the grossly over-inflated prices in 2006 and now the housing crisis of 2009, 2010, and into 2011.

More like all the way back from 1998 to 2006, nearly 8 years of price inflation based on lies and hype.

thomas.wong1986 says

o 2006, nearly 8 years of price inflation based on lies and hype.

exactly, prices took 8-10 years to inflate and real estate prices is well documented to have a sticky affect on the decline. We are only 2-3 years into the bursting of the bubble, what makes people think we have bottomed?

Peak in 2006, which went flat for the year, however we went into declines starting in Q1 of 2007 to present. Im using the SJ, SC, sunnyvale, MSA. see data points below the chart.

http://www.housingbubblebust.com/OFHEO/Major/NorCal.html

thomas.wong1986 says

Peak in 2006, which went flat for the year, however we went into declines starting in Q1 of 2007 to present. Im using the SJ, SC, sunnyvale, MSA. see data points below the chart.
http://www.housingbubblebust.com/OFHEO/Major/NorCal.html

2-4 years was the correction back in 1989-94. However thats a pimple compared the Whopper size bubble we are still in. The last 2 years its been the sobering up period, you sure dont hear anyone saying there is no bubble in housing...

Wong, like you I am also a local, but unlike you I do remember the brown smog that was particularly bad in the late summer/early autumn.

When you were in school in Sunnyvale I was in East San Jose, in the mid-1970's it was not unusual to have P.E. cancelled because of the smog. By the time my younger siblings were taking P.E. in middle& high school, smog days were already a thing of the past.

I like to look at history and trends and graphs as much as the next nerd. but where in history did the US Gov prop up the "market" like it did and is doing today? Like this is really a free market anyway LOL! . This a Goverment Controled/owned "market" one like never before . And the Support may end or it may not. seems like we are in uncharterd waters here.

so My prediction for 2010 is California Bubble costal area 30% average drop in Price by 2011. this could effect inland to. double dip for sure we are in it all ready. do believe the data. IT's BS!

things are worse than they appear. we will start to see this as the spring bounce doesn't really bounce and then Bame going down.

hope I'm dead wrong. (JUST FOR MY PARENTS SAKE)
just say'n.

I've been scouring rental ads for the city of SF, Oakland, Alameda, and Berkeley and studios/1bd seem to be holding up in price. No, I am not a landlord trying to keep rents high. I'm guessing the housing at the lower end is holding up because it's all many people can afford these days.

Danimal says

I like to look at history and trends and graphs as much as the next nerd. but where in history did the US Gov prop up the “market” like it did and is doing today? Like this is really a free market anyway LOL! . This a Goverment Controled/owned “market” one like never before . And the Support may end or it may not. seems like we are in uncharterd waters here.

Plenty of similaries with the Great Depression. So may not be uncharted. We do know what the cure is, allow prices to deflate further so they may be supported with actual family incomes and not by pathic hype which didnt exist pre-1997. If the goverment is so concerned over legitimate pricing they can start by emposing stricter behavior on realtor and allowing greater transparency for buyers. Then you have confidence in the market once again. The goverment did the same thing with the collapse of the stock market back in 1933/34 by mandating publicly exchanged to publish financial results and creating the SEC. It was only then that the public had confidence in the stock market to start buying stock based on transparent financial results and valid market prices and not mear rumors.

$200 lemonaid

Pkennedy, what you're engaging in is a tautology. LL's are in a business and those who don't do well, go under. OK, and grass is green. Seriously, there is no guarantee that a LL who holds out for a higher price will get it anymore than a seller of a home who holds out for a higher price gets it even though both are in a "business" in a limited sense.

I know a few renters who overpaid for RE but they generally had lower credit ratings and this also combined with them being more transient. The 8 year/high paying tenant is like an episode of The Bachelor. In Real Life, that just doesn't happen that often. It's more likely for it to be some newbie sap who pays it for 3 years or so and moves on to another, cheaper place when they wise up. Then the landlord has to go through the pain again of putting the place on market, sitting through open houses, etc.

Regarding consumers who don't look at price tags and just BUY BUY BUY whatever the price. That's boom era thinking during the days of the bubble when granite countertops justified million dollar price tags for suburban condos. It was a thinking that was rationalized by an era of seemingly easy money. I imagine that renters probably are less susceptable to that thinking since they probably wound up losing their home in the first place not watching the bottom line! I love your comparison of renting overpriced shacks to women buying Prada bags. Indeed, Americans are shocked that I tell them I took out women on dates and would ask them to split a meal with me (why should both of us get fat?) My wife shops at Ross and Marshalls. I personally am NOT into the rat race of (another TV show) of Orange County Housewives. But then again, if you ever watch that show, the OC Housewives who regularly go to boutiques are... having money and marital problems. One was just served an eviction notice AT HER LUXURY RENTAL! Which brings us back to the paradox between the sap renter who blows money like water AND also stays in place for 8 years. Think about that for a moment: With a boutique, you take the money and run and let the customer deal with their marital and money problems at home. With renting to them, you are STUCK with them when they go under.

I'm reminded of the joke about the kid who runs a lemonaid stand and charges $200 a glass. A man walks up and says: "That's a real high price. How do you think that will work?" and the boy repies: "I only have to sell ONE!"

Key is buying property at the court house steps for ridiculouly low price, and not through a realtor at fair market value today aka short sale.

Prices have dropped in 2009 and will drop again in 2010.

There is a huge hidden inventory of distressed properties and foreclosure coming on the market, so prices will continue to decline nationwide and more so on higher end properties.

Therefore as an investor, if you have 300 -500k cash, you can buy one of the many foreclosures and at the courthouse steps and be fine.

Otherwise, beware and proceed with caution. Your new purchase will drop in value approx. 20% the first year and maybe more.

Don't be fooled by realtor rhetoric. The market has declined and will continue to decline.

So someone questions your perfectly good opinion, that person is accusing you hiding something, having bad faith, misrepresenting your points, responsible for something others did to you, and implying that you're lying? Oh, Lord.

You know what? Here's what.

Even though I can not fully agree with what you and other landlord's said, it gave me some time to think about different point of views, and I always thought I can learn a thing or two from you. Boy, was I wrong. Thanks for letting me know that.

The property you purchased was 47% less than what the previous owner paid.

What are you not getting?

I beginning to think in addition to being in denial that the market is dropping and trying to convince other otherwise, you may have a learning disability.

Get real, the market has dropped and is continuing to drop.

Gina says

The property you purchased was 47% less than what the previous owner paid.
What are you not getting?

The house already dropped in price--from 2006 to 2007. You were talking about what will happen in 2010! That's a big difference there, don't you think? Do you think that housing prices will continue to fall forever?

azrob00 says

Keep posting away, as if your voluminous sand castle of nonsense can survive the rising tide of reality!

I don't know what housing prices will do in the future, but all evidence I've seen lately is to the contrary. You guys sound almost like realtors did 6-7 years ago, only claiming the opposite...

tatupu70 says

I don’t know what housing prices will do in the future, but all evidence I’ve seen lately is to the contrary. You guys sound almost like realtors did 6-7 years ago, only claiming the opposite…

By hook or by crook it will fall back to long term normal trends.
http://www.housingbubblebust.com/OFHEO/Major/NorCal.html

I would say when you see the numbers fall between 300-400K
around 3.5x median incomes your at the bottom.

No, prices will eventually plateau once they come back down into an honest range and back to reality.

Right now, property values in California are still about 40% over value, even after the 20% decline in 2009

That is why they will drop throughout 2010 and 2011, not to mention the amount of homeowners with damaged credit from past shenanigans motivated by greed and deceit.

The housing market is going through a long over due correction and corrupt lenders are going through an honesty check.

My opinion, their should be no bail-outs because of the corruption and greed displayed by all involved.

This housing scam was and still is the biggest lie of the decade.

This is what I mean about the Hip and Cool and Beautiful Bay Area People who are too Bay-Area centric.

I am not even sure if everyone-Chinese wants to live here now, maybe all the everyone-Chinese who wants to live here already does. In that case, at least for the time being, no more where that came from. And besides, if they do have the means to come here, I don't think they will be wanting to prop up the rents in the mainstream rental kinds of places you and E-man are investing at.

We can be so Full of Ourselves that we delude ourselves into thinking that "if we build it, they will come", like when we built that proposal to host the 2012 summer games.

No, everybody does not want to live here. To think so is the same arrogance that lost us so much in the past decades (bases, manufacturing, etc.).

Would that be like the accurate and carefully constructed pollling mechanism in 2006?

"Seattle is different, prices here won't drop..."
"Miami is different, all of Latin America wants to invest in Miami"
"23 reasons to bank on the Phoenix real estate market" 2006 by the real estate columnist for az republic.

Yeah, where have I heard this (mis)logic before? Oh yeah! everywhere!!!
Just for memories sake, brand new 2 bedroom condos were not selling for $80K on the solano hill when I went to Berkeley, during the last bay area crash...

THOUSANDS MIGRATE TO CAPITAL REGION
Published on October 24, 1999, Page A1, Article 1 of 1 found, 1594 words.
** Everyone knows the Sacramento area is thick with Bay Area refugees.

You can tell by the Silicon Valley companies moving here and the newcomers who complain about the summer heat.

Now, thanks to the Internal Revenue Service, there are some hard numbers on this trend. Since 1990, about one out of every five people moving to the Sacramento region has come from the San Francisco Bay Area.

Driven by skyrocketing housing prices and freeway gridlock, these transplants are again making the

pkennedy says

Urban sprawl and Urban living have been steadily increasing since the industrial revolution

No its the opposite. As history will show, expansion went to the suberbia. You thinking of the late 1800s and not the post 50s. That is why you see Daly City, Redwood City, and the rest of the SouthBay grow. Heck even Foster City came on line back in the 70s. We certainly saw Fremont/Milpitas grow rapidly in the 80s. Future growth may well be in South San Jose.. lots of land there!

Reconcile what?... exactly how long have you lived in the Bay Area ? Its history and fact well known.

30 years of decline

Pkennedy, update if you're still reading this thread:

The woman LL who was offering a condo rental in our complex has dropped her asking price by $100 after being on the market for 2 months. That's a $2200 loss. IMO, she's still about $100 above market rate so she hopes to now net, let's say for a 3 year lease, 36*100=$3600 gain over market or $1400 gain. (This is assuming that her new price nets a tenant tomorrow.)

The market has gotten bizarre in the NoVA area. Places that are simply not that great are listed on craiglist for $300 more than 6 months ago and this is a winter market. It's a massive jump. From what I know of the property above, the high asking price was an optimistic hope of an underwater owner hoping to get someone to pay her mortgage so this may explain why so many properties are on the market AND STAYING THERE and artificially raising asking prices.

It will be interesting to see if the market crashes hard in the spring if there's a double whammy of foreclosures and desperate landlords lowering asking prices...

PolishKnight says

Pkennedy, update if you’re still reading this thread:
The woman LL who was offering a condo rental in our complex has dropped her asking price by $100 after being on the market for 2 months. That’s a $2200 loss. IMO, she’s still about $100 above market rate so she hopes to now net, let’s say for a 3 year lease, 36*100=$3600 gain over market or $1400 gain. (This is assuming that her new price nets a tenant tomorrow.)
The market has gotten bizarre in the NoVA area. Places that are simply not that great are listed on craiglist for $300 more than 6 months ago and this is a winter market. It’s a massive jump. From what I know of the property above, the high asking price was an optimistic hope of an underwater owner hoping to get someone to pay her mortgage so this may explain why so many properties are on the market AND STAYING THERE and artificially raising asking prices.
It will be interesting to see if the market crashes hard in the spring if there’s a double whammy of foreclosures and desperate landlords lowering asking prices…

I see this too. Bizarre it is. My el cheapo apt management is adjusting rent rate every week and now that's $100~150 more than a year ago for new tenants. Special offer my ass.

NoVA is well known for its resiliency though, it's almost godly amazingly resilient. Bubble happened, bursted, but somehow, the air in the bubble is still staying in the bubble. Same old crappy homes are still there, and new listing in the area is almost dried up. It is like people are holding their properties waiting for thigns gets better. I wonder how long they can do that. I won't be shocked if another year 2008 happens in the area.

But that's NoVA. Many people in this site are from west coast, and they don't see what we see because it's different place.

You can't win every investment you make. If she "lost" some money time around, she'll likely make it back or go under eventually.

The best investors will make it, the worst will go under. If she had started the rental market $800 less, we would be saying she's stupid for sacrificing that money as well. It's pretty hard to win every time around, and if you do.... you're likely pricing yourself too low.

seaside, NoVA is like the suburbs of Moscva (there's an amazing cite on lovelylisting.com of a 530sqft condo in the fringes of Moscow listed for $700K (dollars, I think, but come to think of it that may be in rubles!)

This is the heart of the beast and governments don't like to lay off THEIR people (well, they do layoffs in their own way but there's interesting stories about that in Moscow too!)

So yes, employment is high here in NoVA and a lot of people have more money than brains (or taste) (good for government work) and the low quality and high prices of the restaurants and retail stores reflect that. Even so, DC inflated their own bubble in their own way. When someone chirps "location, location, location!" to me here, I ask them: "Did Tokyo in the 80's have people who needed somwhere to live?"

Sellers/landlords here are amazingly stubborn and, as I said, I think the flood of high rentals are the supply side trying to dictate prices (true "supply side economics") so lots of high priced rentals on the market with the smarter ones slowly chasing it down (faster than the pack). This is how bubbles work: Mass denial until the smart ones give up and then the rest panic or default.

In answer to pkennedy, once again: duh. Of course she'll either make it back or go under. Or... third option: She'll just lose some money. Actually, even at her listing price she'll still lose money from what I calculated based upon holding costs, taxes, and HOA fees (although not by a lot, maybe a $100 or $200 per month). But that's with an IDEAL tenant (like moi!) I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these landlords are flooded with prospective, desperate tenants with bad credit histories and habits. Anyplace is affordable if you cram enough people in it...

Regarding pricing too low. Of course, by definition, that's not good either (it's like saying that excess is bad). That brings us to the opposite side though: Just as high rents attract a lot of desperate renters with spotty credit histories or looking to cram 4 in the place for affordability, lower than market value rents attract a large pool of candidates and move the property quickly AND keep that tenant in place for a maximum period of time. That's how the landlord gets that "8 year" term you referred to before. On the other hand, as soon as the high priced renter sees a better deal, they'll vamoose after the 1 year and then it's back to the 2 to the 3 month waiting game...

From my perspective, I think there's a balance on my end as well. My wife didn't like us paying slightly above 'base" rent to get a great place BUT we got a great deal a with great location and layout. So we can stay for years and don't feel about about our deal and avoid moving costs.

Oh, one more thing: After surfing craigslist "for rent" out of curiosity, I surfed on over to furniture and... WOW! A lot of great priced furniture out there! I am so _not_ buying retail!

So a lot of these landlords/sellers are probably moving out and dumping their stuff to stave off the inevitable. A queen bedroom set for $700.00. I'm soooo there!

Furniture has always been cheap, even on craigslist. It's one of those things that not many people buy, and most want complete "sets" for their entire house to match. It's difficult often to find exactly what you want on craigslist for furniture, I've tried. Granted, I had pretty high standards on what I wanted!

Not to mention furniture gets nicked when moving or just sitting there, not how careful your movers are! When people view used furniture, it's pretty hard to get past the nicks in it, unless you're a bachelor looking for "a bed"!

If I had a place to rent, I still think I would start off higher and slowly drop the rent than try and pick a low rent. If you luck out and get a tenant that spends 6 years there, it'll be harder to really jack up the rents later. Not to mention, if you get someone who's willing to pay more now, it's likely because they're not savvy shoppers, and they're more likely to accept increases later. Anyone on this site will probably object to that, but I'm betting we all know a few people who we've tried to help, and no matter what they just make the worst choices possible!

Ah, furnitures in craiglist... I really recommend you bring a flashlight with you, check every corner and every crack before you hand over your money, because there's bedbug everywhere in DC area. Belive me, that little bugger is real annoying sucker. You don't want a have one in your place.

It is extremely difficult to negociate rent at least here in NoVA.
As PolishKnight pointed out, Sellers/landlords here are amazingly stubborn and I can not imagine anything like change of their attitude even in times like this. Sure, it's not good but it's not like the west coast. It is almost like "what crisis? what those people in west coast are talking about?" So frankly speaking, starting off higher and slowly droping the rent by negotiating is not really happening in DC/NoVA area. You don't want to pay, you move out. That's the only rule that works here. Totally different situation.

Seaside, I had a friend visit from NJ and set her up at a business suite I had stayed in previously. Apparently, the former tenants of the room were consultants who had stayed for 6 months. When she tried to go to bed, even before turning out the lights, a bedbug had latched onto her back. My wife didn't want her entering our place even just to say hello. (I thought that was taking it too far!)

That's why I'm very leery about buying used mattresses but used wooden furniture I don't think is as big a problem. When moving, I totally dissassemble and inspect the furniture. Sadly, there's no guarantee as shown above so I just view it as a normal risk of life.

Regarding negotiating: I have negotiated in the past with private LL's and found them to be fair which is perhaps why I have gotten better deals overall. For example, we are willing to pay for minor plumbing and heating issues ($200 or so) to keep the status quo. I agree with seaside that some LL's simply don't care and have the attitude "don't like it? Leave!" and then, amazingly, they were shocked when my wife and I did just that! Adding it all up, my wife and I have saved about $6000 over 5 years but it cost us about $1.5K in moving expenses and hassles. But on the plus side we got to experience seeing different neighborhoods and learning the area. I'm glad we didn't buy the first place we moved into and get stuck there.

Anyways, even in the cases of commercial landlords raising rents I've seen then have units run empty for 3 months at a time (or more) AND problematic tenants moving in. Pkennedy, as I said the problem with bad consumers is that they often make other bad personal life choices as well and this reflects in them having lots of friends share the rent, make a lot of noise, or just have financial problems later and that costs the LL too. This is why I try to avoid commercial properties: They can't legally cut me the slack in pricing for a good credit and personal rating. I pay the same as some wonk with money burning a hole in their pocket.

Anyways, I just checked out Craiglist again and I see that the prices have gotten SLIGHTLY lower than last week. I'm still watching the market because it's a bellweather for where sales (which we ultimately want to do) will go. I'm guessing that stubborn LL's are hoping to pay their underwater mortgages until they think the market recovers. Provided the pricing for rentals stays under the base carrying costs for a non-foreclosure listing, they're bleeding money and the more they bleed over time, the more foreclosures/walk aways and so-on.

This thread originally is about bay area though, I feel like I have to reply on PolishKnight's post as fellow virginian. :)

While I have no reason to buy home right now, I am seeing signs of deterioration in my particular apartment. It is turning into a slum-like condition. The problomatic tenants, defensive management attitude, crackheads and Joe12pack every day and other stuffs.

Today morning, I found someone dinged my car and took off. This nice school bus driver saw me watching arround, and told me what he saw. A car parked next to mine passed the bus when school kids are boarding while stop sign is flashing, dinged my car and took off. Having a witness, I called police, and what I got was the worst piece of shit thug in the uniform I ever met. I know the car and the kid who did that because there's only one car fits the description and I remember what car was there next to mine. The police thug didn't even bother listening me or the the bus driver. It was like, you two are wasting my time, STFU or I will beat you two to the hell. The car and the kid showed up in the parking lot later in the evening. Carwashed nice and shiny.

Of course, something like that happened all the time, but this ain't the way it used to be in this place. I never had this much lowlives and drug addicts in the apartment as neighbor. The wife and I concluded that our time to move out to better place is comming. It is about lease renewal time, and we don't have other place to go now. So we decided to choose short term option while we're seeking a new place, then we're outta here. Another reason for me to watch market. :)

Seaside,
This is unPC for me to say so, but I hinted above that the reason why I found both quality and lower price in private apartments was that I'm a good tenant both financially and personally. Apartment complexes have to deal with "anti-discrimination" laws that require them to rent out to someone who passes minimal qualifiations (and perhaps even meet quotas.) They simply aren't in a position to negotiate.

The scary thing about buying is that it's sometimes just as bad as apartment renting but without the flexibility. A friend of mine had bad neighbors but since he owned his place, there was nothing he could do about it.

Regarding your problem with the police: You shouldn't have bothered too much with him. Just get him to write up a basic report and then quietly move on ASAP and later call the department and get someone better. Or better yet, if he was that bad call internal affairs and ask THEM for a recommendation.