patrick.net

@DinOR,

Congratulations on your (first?) perma-bull "conversion"! Please feel free to post the details on our Conversion thread.

I wonder if one of us can bring fraud charges against David Lereah for all his statements?

No.

People are free to interpret data any way they see fit. CNBC today had people honestly (in some cases) reading today's data as everything from "the biggest Boom in US history" to "recessions that will make the 70s look like the 90s". Even if people are paid to "think a certain way" and echo that in the media over and over, that cannot ever be made illegal unless we've really gone off the rails in this country.

Wasn't SQT saying something about Journalism being the 4th branch of the government. Since megacorps own all the media, I guess they're the new 4th branch.

Oh, btw: this gem from Newsweek's newest cover story:

Nightmare Mortgages
They promise the American Dream: A home of your own -- with ultra-low rates and payments anyone can afford. Now, the trap has sprung

Not that all option ARM holders go in blindly. While the loans are marketed aggressively, plenty of holders know exactly what they're getting into. Jon and Meghan Bachman of Portland, Ore., consider them wealth-building tools. "We want to own a bunch of houses," says Meghan. "We're hoping for early retirement."

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_37/b4000001.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_top+story

the libertarian view often strikes me as an elaborate front for “not in my backyard”.

Many are not objecting to the notion of paying for a basic minimum societal safety net. They just want it to be a basic minimum, and not one iota more. Minimize moral hazard. People should be free to make bad decisions. And we don't want them to starve on the streets, even if they're there by their own hand. (I used all three thair's in one sentence!). We just don't want to make their lives comfortable or fulfilling.

Here's an actual crime that's come to light as a result of the current RE bubble being currently investigated: the collusion and racketeering practices of the RE industry.

Robert Coté Says:

There’s beeen a million take-offs of the original I think I had the Boston variety in my dorm room there until I “ran/was run out” of universities.

I've always found the geo-centricity you guys allude to funny. In a similar vein, it's funny how the BA has a general attitude of disdain and almost hatred towards SoCal, while most people I know in SoCal don't give a rat's ass about the BA. There's a parallel sentiment between Boston and NYC. Many Bostonians despice NYC and New Yorkers, while most New Yorkers barely know Boston exists. Maybe the Red Sox are an exception.

Liar loans from applicant to secondary market should be prosecuted under Patriot Act terrorism laws. Indeed some people will find themselves sentenced to 30-life of home detention with no trial or appeal.

:lol: FBuyerdom: The self-incarcerating crime.

Even home buying can get kind of risky if you're paying 50% of your take home income in mortgage, if your marriage is on the rocks, or if your job is not rock solid.

Before the home prices got so high, people in those situations (excluding the 50% of take home income in mortgage) are likely to get out with some losses, but have those losses cushioned by the 20% downpayment. But with current prices and bad practices, even buying a home with the intention of staying is a scary prospect.

And this doesn't even get into the question of how much better your home could be or how much better your household finances can be, if you waited and bought the house at 20-50% off.

jail time. capital punishment. public floggings. except they'd only enjoy it...

I’ve always found the geo-centricity you guys allude to funny. In a similar vein, it’s funny how the BA has a general attitude of disdain and almost hatred towards SoCal, while most people I know in SoCal don’t give a rat’s ass about the BA. There’s a parallel sentiment between Boston and NYC. Many Bostonians despice NYC and New Yorkers, while most New Yorkers barely know Boston exists.

The biggest problem that I see in California is that Californians tend to think that California is the center of the world - due to the fact that no matter how many hours of driving you do, you're still in California (or Las Vegas, a suburb of California).

As a result, Californians are unable to realize or even imagine that in reality, New York City is the center of the world.

But if you use a manipulated currency and an international plan of loose credit following the marxist dictat of “sell you the rope” then you are… um… China, our friend.

I believe the expression is that China is our frenemy.

How can Californians possibly think they're the center of the world? You guys watch TV shows 3 hours after everybody else in the country. Your stockbrokers work a 5AM-2PM shift.

I hope that this article will serve as an encouragement:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14604126

No, it may be an encouragement for you. We do not need any more confirmation. We do welcome dissident opinion nowadays because we are getting really bored.

BTW, near the white hot job center, there are a few new communities in Sunnyvale that are now offering incentives and/or price retrogradation. I am sure prices are still "on the rise". Perhaps builders are just being nice.

Fake P Says:

Have any noticed that the job market in the bay area is sooooo hot for tech guys? The traffic jam in San Jose is getting from bad to unbearably bad.

At least try to use proper grammar. You read like a FOB.

Fake P is not too bad, at least he never uses all block capital letters.

Fake P is our friend. We miss him!

Now where is Jack?

http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney08302006.html

The Great Housing Crash of '07
By MIKE WHITNEY

This month's figures prove that the so-called "housing bubble" is not only real, but that its cratering faster than anyone had realized. As the UK Guardian reported just yesterday, "the orderly housing slowdown predicted by the Federal Reserve will (soon) become a full-blown crash".

All the indicators are now pointing in the wrong direction. Consumer confidence is down, inventory is at a 10 year high, and the number of homes sold in July was 22% lower than last year. As Paul Ashworth, chief economist at Capital Economics said, "Things seem to be getting worse very quickly. Freefall is a strong word, but I think it's the right one to use here." (UK Guardian)

The housing bubble is a $10 trillion equity balloon that will explode sometime in 2007 when more than $1 trillion in no-interest, no down payment, adjustable-rate mortgages (ARMs) reset; setting the stage for massive home devaluation, foreclosures and unemployment. ("By some estimates housing activity has accounted for 40% of all the jobs created since 2001". Times Online) July's plunging sales are just the first sign of a major slowdown. The worst is yet to come.

Robert Cote,

Huh? Congrats and everything to you for having a great life, but what does that have to do with west coast stockbroker hours? I was just trying to illustrate that the Left Coast does not have major stock or commodities exchanges.

I miss Jack too. Then we can restart the discussion on Marin intangibles and how high they can go. Then we can go through MarinPOS's selection of high priced shacks and go find intangibles...it'd be so much fun!

And then I'll go OT and start bashing marble kitchen counters, Jack will come in and defend marble countertops and then I'd be forced to apologize and say that some marble kitchen counters are actually quite cool, especially if they're black and overlook the Bay.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/duffy8.html

Gary Shilling and Brian Wesbury squared off on CNBC to discuss the current state of the housing market. Wesbury, the younger and far more frequent guest over the past eight years, was bullish: the market is simply "correcting back to normal." Shilling, the bear, subscribes to the housing bubble theory. As evidence, last year 40% of home sales were speculative in nature – that is, to second home buyers and investors. According to Shilling, it would take a 35% drop in housing prices to restore the long-term balance between median home prices and the Consumer Price Index. What caught our attention was the essence of Wesbury’s assuredness: there never was a bubble because most people are rational.

I know of a co-worker who is a mediocre performer and has an unimpressive resume, went to 5 interviews and got 4 offers. What is the world coming to?

So what? I have recruiters calling me at work. I just have to turn them away.

Have you realized that performance gets you nowhere? It is all about chemistry and astrology.

Fake P,

You'll enjoy Ha Ha's presence here (I don't know if he was here when you were). He keeps saying $160K is lower middle class or something and that he can't buy anything on that income.

This late coming job bubble is isolated to the BA. In DC/NoVA, the job market is already cooling down a bit and quite a few projected expansions are getting cut or scaled down, esp. in anything related to RE or the defense department. Still some overhanging demand, but it's going fast.

Last time someone told me the job market was hot we had a recession within a year. Silly Valley is not smarter than everyone. It is just too optimistic to see mines on the ground.

Though on the other hand, it was nice while the job market was decent for a change. It's about time that workers started getting some benefits from higher productivity and after years of stagnant wages (supported by RE asset inflation). The hangover of the RE asset inflation will not be pretty.

Fake P. enjoy your dope.

Boy those Raiders sure looked good last night…for the first two minutes.

Yep, it didn't take long to make the Seahawks look like crap. Reminds me of the good ol' days. As for the rest of game, it's preseason so I didn't really pay too much attention to the game after the first few series of play. But congrats on the win...I guess.

Go Raiders.

Though on the other hand, it was nice while the job market was decent for a change.

Not exactly nice. Think traffic. And worse of all, restaurant wait-time!

Meritage Homes, hee hee. Meritage...

I’m sorry, my properties (Pac Heights and Sonoma) have increased 4x in price since I bought them in ‘94.

why haven't you sold those suckers at the top of the market? 8O

why haven’t you sold those suckers at the top of the market?

Houses are not necessarily investments. Quality of life is more important.

I try to plan my day with commute time in mind and I'm not really rich enough to eat out that often, so I'll take a good job market please!

Plus, higher wages would just be taking over from people HELOCing or flipping their RE holdings, without rising wages, the restaurants would now be empty because people can no longer liberate home equity for $9/piece sushi.

"...jack hammer the foundation, break structural items, plumbing"

You would only be hurting yourself, wouldn't you? My understanding is that your outstanding debt is reduced by the value of the house when the bank takes possession.

"I think credit is all better after 5 or 7 years."

In most cases you would still owe the money.

Should we set up a support group for the prodigal homeowners? I think we should probably accept everyone.

Yeah, strong job market...

Intel May Announce at Least 10,000 Job Cuts Next Week (Update3)

By Ian King

Sept. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Intel Corp. Chief Executive Officer Paul Otellini may cut at least 10,000 jobs next week, or about 10 percent of the chipmaker's workforce, in his efforts to slash $1 billion in costs this year.

Otellini will discuss the results of a 90-day internal review with employees on Sept. 5, said Patrick Ward, a spokesman for Intel. In an interview today Ward called reports on job cuts ``speculation.'' Mark Edelstone at Morgan Stanley is among analysts who predict at least 10,000 reductions.

Intel, the world's biggest semiconductor maker, is wrapping up its most sweeping overhaul since the 1980s as Otellini battles market share losses and falling sales. He decided to fire 1,000 managers in July to restore profit growth, marking the biggest cuts at the Santa Clara, California-based company in four years.

``It would be seen as lame if Intel does less than 10,000,'' said David Wu, an analyst at Global Crown Capital in San Francisco. He rates the stock ``overweight'' and owns shares. Wu is advising investors to buy Intel's stock because he expects recently introduced products will help recapture market share.

Shares of Intel, down 22 percent this year before today, rose 14 cents to $19.71 at 10:58 a.m. New York time in Nasdaq Stock Market composite trading. The Philadelphia Semiconductor Index fell 1.1 percent.

Market Share

Otellini, 55, is eliminating jobs and selling businesses after forecasting the first annual sales drop in five years. While Intel tried to create new markets for its personal-computer microprocessors, the company's closest competitor gained ground. Sunnyvale, California-based Advanced Micro Devices Inc. now has more than 20 percent of the market for chips that power PCs.

In addition to the 1,000 management reductions in July, Intel announced the sale of two communications units that will shave 2,000 more people from the payroll.

``You're probably going to see them go back to the core business, the company they were three or four years ago,'' said Chris Caso, an analyst at Friedman Billings Ramsey & Co. in New York. He raised his rating on Intel this week to ``strong buy.''

To win back sales, Intel this week introduced a version of its Xeon server chip five months ahead of schedule. Otellini has accelerated the introduction of products and says his Xeon chips are faster and more efficient that Advanced Micro's Opteron.

In the second quarter, Intel reported its biggest profit drop in more than four years and said it is unlikely to meet its 2006 sales forecast. Revenue will probably decline more than the 3 percent Intel forecast in April, the company said last month.

`Low End'

More job reductions may reverse a hiring binge that has added more than 20,000 employees since 2003, according to Morgan Stanley's Edelstone, who is based in San Francisco. He predicts 15,000 to 20,000 cuts including previously announced reductions.

``Ten thousand would be at the low end of everyone's expectations,'' said Doug Freedman, an analyst at American Technology Research in San Francisco who has a ``buy'' rating on Intel's shares and doesn't own any.

Before this year, Intel last announced a round of workforce cuts in 2002, when the company shed 4,000 jobs. Intel ended 2005 with 99,900 workers, according to a regulatory filing. That was a gain from 79,700 in 2003.

To contact the reporter for this story: Ian King in San Francisco at ianking@bloomberg.net

Last Updated: September 1, 2006 11:01 EDT

SFWoman,

It's great that you bought as a lifestyle investment. All this bubble stuff really gets people confused between investing in a lifestyle/home and investing so you'd make $250K every two years with no effort.

Also, you're getting really low property tax. Once the market adjusts (below current price level but way above where you purchased it), you might make good money just renting your current place out and take advantage of the lower taxes.

I live in my places.

a poor excuse indeed.... :P

sorry, i thought they were 'extra' properties - for some reason using the word 'property' connotes investment to me, tho i don't know what alternative word you use to indicate personal use - 'places' or 'homes'? 'my homes', hmm

if you were a gambler, you could sell the apartment at the top, then buy a hollywood mansion for the same amount post-crash. in the interim, you could sell the apartment and lease it back ;) maybe sell your mom and lease her back too, i did that to my grandmother once, i wasn't heartless enough to sell her outright...

Robert Cote,

Oh come on! You like your kids, you like your house and you seem to like your job too. That sounds like a fine life you're built for yourself, and one that you're rightfully proud of.

As for geopolitical importance, CA is far from the finance and political centers of the US.

I agree that the Left Coast is much more pleasant than the Right Coast in many respects, especially for weather and natural scenery. But pleasantness does not make for geopolitical significance...unless one considers Hollywood blockbusters (financed and approved in Hollywood but usually filmed in Canada or Bulgaria or Australia nowadays) or San Fernando Valley videos or apricots to be of geopolitical significance.