patrick.net

His and her closets are a very good idea. Much more important to family tranquility than his and her bathrooms.

alien,

Sorry to be so nosy, but I'm curious where your mentor lives and how much he spent. I agree, it is a really nice way to live.

I've been sketching ideas for underground subdivision housing. The houses would be entirely underground except for the garage doors, roads and a few skylights per house. The space above would open space for play space, gardens, and communal green space. That would offer much better privacy, soundproofing, and insulation than traditional suburban housing. I think the excavation costs would be a bit higher and you need to be careful about drainage and waterproofing, but it seems like a solution that would please open space/green space fanatics.

Has anyone here seen real plans or proposals for this sort of community?

Coos Bay is a lovely area. Actually, all of coastal Oregon and coastal northern California are gorgeous, much more so than the stretch from SF to SD.

I wasn't thinking of individual houses but of whole communities. I figure that would cut down on excuvation time and costs (since modern subdivisions already move dirt around and do a lot of compacting). So it's not really an alternative life style, but a green and energy efficient spin on "traditional" suburban housing. The selling point would be the lower running cost(good in really hot and really cold areas), privacy from neighbors (that would not otherwise exist with that kind of density), soundproofing (good for developments near busy roads) and the greater availability of green space.

*unlurks*

From showers and tubs to eco houses! Astrid, you sure have similar interests to me.

My personal favourite is the cordwood house. Essentially, it's short sections of wood (aka firewood) set so that the cut ends form the inside and outside wall surface, long dimension facing in (or out) and stacked with lots of mortar between the cordwood. If you're in a cold climate, like me, your cordwood house can have two layers of cordwood, with a layer of insulating material (e.g. all that sawdust from your construction?) in between. Otherwise, one layer can suffice.

I like it because it looks easier to build, being small chunks of wood that even a small woman can heft. See this website for more details:

http://www.cordwoodmasonry.com/Cordwood.html

The round shape of the houses (looking hobbit-like) is favoured because of the ease of construction, and because a round shape contains more interior area for the same number of linear wall perimeter than rectangular or square shapes. A round house could be interesting for furniture layout!

The dream now (soon as we're done paying off this city house hopefuly in 7 to 10 years) is to get 40 acres located 2 hours (or more) outside of Toronto in good farmland, 50% covered (or more) with woodlot, and build me one of these.

If I buy a plane ticket will Surfer-X also invite me to his next blog party?

*relurks*

Absofuckinglootly

All southern exposure would be nice, though I was thinking of fully underground so there would be fewer site problems. I know that most earthship houses are exposed on the southern side, but I think going completely underground might offer greater flexibility.

It's all a brain fart though. I'm no land developer (which is a good thing) and I would like to live in a temperate climate with lots of glass. But when I hear about $1000/month heating bills in Minnesota or upstate NY, I really wonder why they don't build underground.

TOLurker,

Interesting article, though probably not my kind of house. I like concrete and glass and steel. If that happens for you, please email me and let me know, I may still have viable vegetable seeds from my entirely too large stockpile.

SFWoman,

China is not too bad now. Many tourist areas have upgraded their facilities and the major cities now have westernized and clean bathrooms. You're unlikely to ever run into a problem if you stay in a three star or above hotel. Some of my crazier run in with bad Chinese toilets were from ten years ago, and the rest are in really backwoodsy areas.

Even the train toilets are getting upgraded, which makes sleeper trains a much more pleasant experience.

*Unlurks*

Thanks, X. I'll have to monitor these boards a little more closely though to make sure I have maximum notice to get said plane ticket. I'm usually a week to three days behind on the threads.

Astrid: See, you definitely have tastes and interests paralleling mine. I also like to garden, though said city house has a shaded south garden. I've often thought of digging up the front (north) lawn to plant a veggie garden. It's the only spot that gets direct sun thanks to the mature trees in my back yard. I suppose the neighbours might have a problem with veggies in the FRONT lawn but maybe they'd be OK with it, particularly after peak oil hits and food gets pricier...?

Of course, with the crappy, heavy clays, nothing grows well, not even the existing lawn. I have considered digging up said lawn, top 4" of clay, replace with triple mix and seeding with this drought-resistant eco-lawn seed mix:

http://admin.wildflowerfarm.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=1&Category_Code=E

Damn that's a long URL, I should really tinyurl it. well, here's there front page:

http://www.wildflowerfarm.com/about.htm click on Ecolawn.

Don't know if they ship to the U.S.A. (control of food, seeds, plants crossing the border) but maybe...?

As far as heating bills go it cost us $1,000 for the whole year's natural gas last year. That's without a protected rate plan -- we paid the going rate at Enbridge which adjusts every 3 months to the market rate. Our 58 year old postwar 1 1/2 storey is not particularly well insulated, which I fixed this May (somewhat, attic only). But we did have a high efficiency furnace. $1,000 a MONTH? What kind of leaky, uninsulated house with a crap furnace is that? Then again, I saw an unrenovated, 2,500 SF 1870s house in London Ontario -- it had an ancient, 60+ or 80+ year old boiler of a kind I'd never seen before. THe oldest boilers I've seen are usually 1940s to 1960s cast iron boilers for commercial buildings. This looked like a coal-powered *engine* from the 1910s or 20s (doubt it), but it wasn't coal. The property manager claimed it cost $70,000 to keep it heated with heating oil. House was later torn down for condos.

Now that I'm completely OT I'll get lost again...

*relurks*

Yes. Such communities should come with their own hop trellises.

*unlurks*

I'm going to have to change my handle if I keep this up. Dirty washrooms:
the Globe and Mail had a series on the matter of dirty public washrooms at the beginning of the month. I'm going to tinyurl these because my other comment just got stuck in moderation:

Germs, ahoy!
It's not easy being clean. If dirty bathrooms are leaving you fuming, Mike Crosby of Irving Oil wants to share a little secret: You can find clean-toilet relief if you skip to his loo
http://tinyurl.com/n2og6

and another the same day:

Health pitfalls aplenty in public washrooms
Experts advise you to trust your eyes and nose if they're telling you 'yuck'
http://tinyurl.com/mhgmq

A tale of terrible travellers' toilets
The Globe surveys men's washrooms along Ontario's Highway 401
http://tinyurl.com/lmmv7

*relurks*

One thing that builders never offer are industrial strength kitchen ventilators that vent out.

I hate microwave/hood combo! If I buy my house I am going to throw away that microwave non-sense!

I still do not trust microwave oven. It is a voodoo oven!

Having travelled extensively in Southern Europe and Greece in the early 80's (and survived many, many outdoor festivals in the UK) I learnt the technique of squatting over the hole.

Actually, without wanting to gross anyone out, as a woman, its generally quicker to squat and pee than sit and pee on a normal western toilet. Something to do with the position you're in when squatting helps all those 'pee' muscles.

And yes, you do get thighs strong enough to crack walnuts..;-)

I want the japanese star trek toilet that sprays water on your ass.

The toto washlet. Everyone should have one.

Oh and a 2 head shower with places to sit. and no door, just glass bricks. huge.

And I want a urinal in the bathroom, and by my bed. but not too close.

I want the japanese star trek toilet that sprays water on your ass.

They were selling those in a Milpitas store that was used to be a mortgage office.

And I want a urinal in the bathroom, and by my bed. but not too close.

I want a urinal with infra-red flush. I actually saw one in the powder room of an open house.

Since women hate urinals, we need his-and-her baths or at least his-and-her water closet.

Have you ever been to Japan? Once in Nagoya I got a hotel room with what I believed was a very small shower with an unusually deep basin.

Well, Japan usually has smallish hotel rooms. Also, rooms there are usually functional but not luxurious.

If you guys want to spend that much money in bathrooms, definitely consider installing a flat screen TV and some good speakers, so you can multitask.

If you guys want to spend that much money in bathrooms, definitely consider installing a flat screen TV and some good speakers, so you can multitask.

LCD TVs in every water closet and a big one in front of the tub. :)

And I want a urinal in the bathroom, and by my bed. but not too close.

that's a chamber pot ;)

maybe have a whole bathroom ensuite inside the bedroom!

maybe have a whole bathroom ensuite inside the bedroom!

How about a bedroom ensuite inside the bathroom?

@alien and astrid,

A couple of years ago, before this & Ben's blogs got started and before I had a clear picture of the bubble, I was researching alternative construction incl. straw-bale. I figured going green and DIY might help offset the exorbitant cost of housing in CA (at the time I did not fully understand the roles of speculation, loose credit & NIMBY on prices here.)

Anyway, I ended up joining CASBA (http://www.strawbuilding.org/) and even went to their Ojai retreat in '04. I even volunteered a couple of weekends to work on a SB house in San Diego that belonged to a CASBA member, just to see what it took. Alien's not kidding --it takes a LOT of time and effort (sweat equity, as they call it). Oh, and by the time you're done paying for the CA (bubble inflated) land, paying the city/counties permits & "just because we can" review fees, plus running utilities/sewer line extensions, etc. you generally don't save all that much money.

I think it may still be worth it if you're a real pro-green, handy-man DIYer with lots of contractor friends, but it's not for novices or faint of heart. You will also get a very energy efficient house with unbeatable insulation properties vs "stick-built" conventional homes. Just don't expect it to be cheap --not in CA anyway.

What I'd really like to see is SB/green construction (which heavily use locally produced agricultural waste products vs, imported lumber & high embodied energy materials) go mainstream. It would be nice to see KB, Toll & Lennar offering SB, cordwood & cobb houses that use passive or low energy cooling/heating systems. You can also replace a lot of the sheetrock and plywood on the interior with natural fiberboard (straw, wheat, hemp, etc.).

Someday maybe...

Steel-reinforced concrete. :)

HARM,

I have no illusions about building cheap in CA. My taste runs quite modern, so adobe or strawbale or log won't work for me. If I DIY in CA, it'll be prefab modern. What I'd really like would be a well constructed co-op/condo/townhouse in a good location with a modernist interior + an urban garden plot of reasonable fertility and bylaws + some kind of amazing piece of land that I can retire to.

I know one thing I really don't want in a house - a McMansion model home look - that kind of veneer wood blandness creeps me out.

Bad, Peter P, BAAAD!! Those are environmentally destructive, high-embodied NRG products.

You must flog yourself with seaweed & loofah until such notions escape your mind. Then you should obtain an aural cleansing & herbal colonic from your local wiccan. Also, don't forget to cleanse your mind/spirit with various "medicinal" psychotropic herbs.

"Kum Bay Yah, My Lord, Kum Bay Yah..."

What about converted shipping containers? They're probably safer than steel reinforced concrete.

HARM,

I fear that nagging does not work for Peter P. You might try the argument about the bad karma associated with concrete.

There is bad karma associated with concrete? 8-O

SFWoman,

I just saw your comment about your son's climbing lessons. That sounds so fun. Maybe you could take him canyoneering next year.

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zion/pine.htm

"There is bad karma associated with concrete? "

See what I mean : -)

Peter P Says:

> Can you teach me how to wash a cat
> without getting scratched?

Then SFWoman Says:

No

You need a shower tub combo with glass doors (a mad wet cat will tear right through a shower curtain) and one of those "shower massage" things
http://www.waterpik.com/showerheads/

Throw the cat in to the tub and close the glass door. Stand on the toilet lean over the top of the shower doors and blast the cat with liquid soap. Wash the soap out with the shower massage thing set to "turbo blast" as the cat runs around the tub trying to get away from the water.

P.S. Since I don't have a cat I don't need a shower tub combo and some day want to have a big bathroom with a separate shower and tub separated from the master bedroom by a fireplace that opens in to both the bathroom and the bedroom...

These used to be ex-SGI buildings, so I guess it was their idea of fun.

But they are G????? buildings now, right?

Peter P Says:

> Since women hate urinals, we need his-and-her
> baths or at least his-and-her water closet.

A proper garage/workshop bathroom will always have a urinal...

Aha... knew I saw it before!

Astrid: Wired did an article some time back about how the new tunneling technology from the Big Dig and other projects would make underground development much more affordable. Link: http://wired.com/wired/archive/11.04/suburb.html?pg=1&topic=&topic_set=

SFWoman:
I've recently gone to Berkeley Ironworks, it's the same company/coop as Mission Rocks. I think it's a much better way to stay in shape than the standard gym machines, but that's just my opinion.

requiem,

Eeeeeexcelllllleeeent!

Well, you guys got a good deal on the lease, no? Did they throw in some Herman Miller chairs too?

this is an opal mining town where 80% (?) of people live underground, by one report. Outside temperatures during the day reach 135, but inside it is naturally 75 without cooling:

Coober Pedy

there is also an abandoned spaceship there, and one guy who struck it rich opal mining has a 17 room excavated house with a swimming pool, lands his light plane on the roof, and has reused a disused mine shaft to mount a spiral staircase...

abandoned spaceship

I saw the pictures. Wow.