patrick.net

Headset,

Well yeah, something like that. All I know is I could be having a really good day and either I get in my car and drive or walk a few blocks and things "can" head south quickly.

It's like we're constantly trying to have some kind of "who can be the most rude, complacent or ignorant contest". If I'm at a bar at closing time, yeah, I expect it but going to check your mail?

Ha Ha,

If there is "no national real estate market" and no bubble how can we already be having Senate Hearings about a crash?

Is this the equivalent of drawing a chalk outline of a body on the sidewalk and THEN throwing a corpse into it?

I think the Marin RE blogger he was attacking was Marinite, who used to post here very regularly. I occasionally post on his blog; and I certainly did on this thread.

That realtor(sm) is very typical of South Marin mindset. The agents here are incredibly snobbish and often outright corrupt. But not corrupt in the normal way. Corrupt in the "we're special and the normal rules don't apply here" way.

It's bad enough up here with agent incest that I'd be willing to pay FAB a broker commission to secure a fair deal for us.

Headset,

That wasn't a realtor calling; that will opportunity knocking.....

If, after you've done ALL your homework, financing is prepped, you've run the numbers, and it's *the* house; here's a couple of things that will rachet up the pressure when you are ready to buy:

Invest in a RE attorney and have him approve something like this as legal and binding in your state:

"This offer is tendered as part of a Multiple Purchase Offer. The buyers named above are making simultaneous offers on one or more additional properties. This offer and all of the other offers tendered are conditioned upon and subject to the final approval of the buyers, which will be delivered in writing within 3 days of sellers' acceptance of this Purchase Offer, unless deadlines are extended by written agreement of the affected parties. Immediately upon transmittal of the buyers' final approval of one of the sellers' acceptance of the offer tendered to those sellers, all other offers in this Multiple Purchase Offer will be unilaterally withdrawn by the buyers."

Submit with the price YOU want to pay and with no contingencies of having to sell on your part; a nice clean QUICK deal for the seller.

Do so on the 1st Tues. of the month after another the seller has had another weekend with no offers and the ink is still wet on the mortgage payment he mailed within the past week and it's fresh on his mind.

Offer is valid for 24 hours which makes for a sleepless night for the seller. He's got to make a decision NOW and not have the time to try some silly counter; which you won't accept anyway. For him, it's time to "fish or cut bait".....

If he accepts, you've got the house you want at the price you are willing to pay. If not, wait a month and run it past him again or move on to the next one on your list. You could send out the same to two or three at the same time and, since you have the right to withdraw the others if you accept one; no downside.

Realize you will not get a Christmas card from either the seller or his agent; but you have probably worked as tough a offer as the listing agent has ever seen AND will probably be the topic of a few RealtorSpin Blogs.

Best Wishes

thanks alien. are you working in construction/development/drafting?

I have seen the polyblock construction technique - it is very fast to put a place up and it has excellent insulation (on a par with strawbale), but there is a lot of embodied energy in the materials, so its not on my list of favorites.

is this the stuff with 2" of polystyrene as sound and heat insulation? rendered after fixing to timber frame or similar.

can you do mouldings in cob? isn't it basically just clay, sand and straw? hmmm

randy, i wrote a disturbing answer in the 'quotes' thread 2 threads back...

The witness list has not been confirmed for the hearing on non-traditional mortgages tentatively scheduled to be held next Wednesday, September 20.

Sen. Allard said that hearing would help lawmakers who “want to get a better understanding of these (mortgage) products and what they mean for the homebuyer, the financial institutions and the economy.”

c'mon guys, who's flying to DC to testify for the american people? i think we should start with surfer as opening speaker to stress the nature of the problem... :P

Prefab is the future!

There is really no reason to build houses on site. Labor costs are just too high.

I think someone should open a prefab factory in Northern Mexico and ship modules to California by truck.

I read that in Japan, all high end housing are prefab. They think stick built is too imprecise.

Aren't most house frames already built in factories and shipped onsite?

They think stick built is too imprecise.

It is true. I will take laser-cut panels over 2x4s any day.

It seems that people appreciate quality in Japan. Just look at their beef.

OT, but relevant to the thread from a few days ago. Regarding Aus-UK and its comparison to US. Got this from Ben's blog, mentioned by GetStucco.

http://economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7891311

Sorry if this was already pointed out.

Good questions and the sort of questions that Americans seem to avoid.
I suspect Hubbard prefers the 3rd alternative a la Singapore, though American morality tends to mess up that sweet arbitrage/exploit 3rd world women gig.

I personally think firefighter/policemen jobs are overcompensated. However, given the nature of policemen jobs, we probably want to keep their wages high - to minimize police corruption. So essentially, they're being paid for what they don't do every bit as much as for what do. (This is also true of lawyers, accountants and government officials, all of whom are paid relatively well considering their education costs and the level of work). But damn if you can get anyone with authority to admit to that.

Why don't we all live in some sort of high strength styrofoam housing? That would be light, provide good insulation and presumably involve comparatively little energy.

the contingency being that they may have to knowingly put themselves in danger? In the US, that particular danger is already covered by the generous death and disability benefits for harm incurred on the job. What ordinary policemen do is not very different from what security guards do for 1/3-1/2 the pay.

I've dropped by at the Hebel AAC distributors not long ago. They've backed away from making decorative mouldings in the end, altho they trialed some and they're certainly lightweight...

why is aluminium required in the manufacturing process?

Why don’t we all live in some sort of high strength styrofoam housing?

well, apart from proposed cardboard houses, these fibre cement boards have inches of EPS attached, which then get screwed to studs. you gyprock inside as usual, and cement render the outside. clearly someone could otherwise just cut their way in... but they offer superior thermal and sound insulation... need to look into a 'reverse masonry' concept with it as well...

hmm, i'm getting to be known as the robert coté of conspiracy theorists elsewhere
oh, sorry robert... :P

attaching the 2400x1800 EPS sheeting and rendering is all done on site, as tho it was a normal construction job... one interesting application i'm looking at is resheeting existing clad homes to improve appearance and increase sound and insulation properties -- removing asbestos fibre-cement ('fibro') or plastic/aluminium sidings...

they insourced some chinese workers on temporary work visas to build a tissue paper mill. why the hell can't they source local workers with 5% unemployment to do this sort of work? that's just bullshit...

'Australian workers on the site said none of the Chinese workers could speak English, read safety signs or follow emergency procedures. Many had to be trained to perform the most basic tasks.'

One guy was about to wash his hands with hydrochloric acid because he couldn't read the sign...

Foreigners found lacking in safety skills

the over-generous pension scheme encourages them to behave themselves while still on the job

yeah, i think it's something of a one-off that's drawn the wrath of the union and local subcontractors -- clear case of undercutting local labour prices. and howard carried on about the loss of jobs when 'baywatch' filming was rejected at avalon beach...

however, i know that 8 times out of 10, the 457s are dodgy, there is somebody local who can do the job, it's just employer preference...

what happens to the aluminium? it remains in the AAC as an aluminium oxide residue? that would be impossible to ever recycle, unlike aluminium frames etc...

oh, yeah, most plentiful metal in the earth's crust, etc, i remember now. i did a year 8(!) paper on aluminium, it was a while ago... still, it's better to recycle refined aluminium where possible, i guess, rather than starting with bauxite...

Will you guys have a south-of-the-equator blog party?

Will you guys have a south-of-the-equator blog party?

hmm, i would do it as a political stunt for the press and starving TV media. especially given that at least the US has congressional hearings about the problem, whereas other countries' govts are completely laissez-faire...

we will order the t-shirts from HARM. there could well be a revolution once the guns, i mean, t-shirts get here...

heh

We watched an interesting show on the History channel last night about plumbing.

hmm, fascinating... ;)

Because obviously if they build a 100 story skyscraper in Oz, the terrorists may show up in your hood, DS.

i haven't dared mention that one in meetings as a minus, but i had thought of it... (100m, only 33 storeys...) there WAS a grollo tower proposed in melbourne at 680m to be the world's tallest building (about 230 storeys) - now proposed in dubai???
Grollo tower to go ahead, in Dubai (includes picture)

Doug H,

Obviously hardball is your game!

I have the cash to buy the house with (because I "stupidly" put all my efforts into paying off the mortgage on my first house) so I have financing lined up as you say. I do not think the fruit is quite ripe yet, next summer may be the time to try your ideas. It will be a more target rich environment.

Headset,

Yeah buddy! I like Doug H's approach. It's totally professional and he's nailed down many of the things we "flirted" with earlier. (I kind of wonder though if it wouldn't be better to make your offer just before the next payment is due?).

Without having to think about it a whole lot I'd have to say this type of offer should become the standard for all bubble-sitters. I'm not big on getting attorneys involved but given the straightforward nature of the document this sounds do-able. I agree though, I'll look forward to a more "target rich" environment!

newsfreak,

I for one would love to think that such an "educational tool" could be developed. The sad truth is that when people have lost money, they want to make it back.....and fast!

Folks that bought in 2004 (expecting huge gains) are finding they no longer have the commanding position the had imagined! They listed for X (and had to accept Y) just to get the deal done. They just now realize that YOU ALWAYS MAKE YOUR MONEY ON THE BUY! They were willing to take the hit just so they could get back into the buyer role/mode!

Shopping is FUN. (selling is HELL).

Anyone can BUY something (especially when it's done on credit!) now selling? That's a different matter. These people bought at a time when ANYONE could sell! Now that they have finally realized (through personal experience) that it's better to be a buyer they want over to that side of the transaction in the WORST way.

in this city, they still conceptualise planning as brown paper envelopes under the minister's door... forget smart growth, it's random growth and 100m towers for land owned by party donors...

I'll be very eager to hear the comments from the Senate Hearing taking place today.

With Dave Seiders (NAHB) and Tom "the tool" Stevens in attendance! Thankfully reps from OFHEO and FDIC will be there to provide some semblance of balance? Anyone that's read any of Tom Stevens comments realizes this guy is somewhere between David Lereah and Gary "in the bag" Watts when it comes to credibility!

Will anything of substance take place here (as in a stern @ss chewing to get their house in order) or will this be more dignified begging and stumping to start the rate reduction cycle?

DinOR,

One thing I’ve learned over the years is to network the market by adding to my knowledge base of what works with tried and true tactics others have used. In any negotiation, you must tailor your approach to the existing set of circumstances and conditions. My “hard-line offer” is what I call the “nuclear option”. In a hot seller’s market, they don’t concern themselves with the wants or needs of the buyer so why shouldn’t a buyer have the same consideration in a hot buyer’s market? It’s simply turning the tables on the folks who came up with this type of transaction to begin with……

Why just after the seller wrote the check instead of before?

Others have worked this long before I latched on to it and have determined it’s a stronger approach because there is hope a more acceptable offer will come right up to the deadline. The money is still in the bank, and while it makes no difference in the actual time line of selling the house, it does make a psychological impact. After mortgage payment time, the money is gone, the balance is low, and the pain continues, as they have to deal with household budget demands.

Remember this the final approach to a long-term process you began weeks ago. You’ve already qualified yourself as a SERIOUS buyer, you’ve had the Listing Agent present when you toured the property so he picks up on all the subtle signals you’ve sent about how the house isn’t worth the asking price. You’ve submitted your questions….lots and lots of questions…in writing so they have to respond…and so forth. Most listing agents still believe their job description is driving their Benz and blogging about their success. When the market shifts, so do the existing paradigms, so it’s going to take a while for you to teach them they really work for you and you decide what they do and don’t do. LOL

The absolute bottom line is the seller wants YOUR money more than they want their house; otherwise they would not offer it up! The only question is the dollar amount that’s going to change hands. If you’ve done your job up to this point, the seller will believe your offer is the LAST one they will ever get!

newsfreak,

Yeah, I do kind of beat that one (among others) to death but it's just the truth. Hell, this is America and anyone can pay anything they see fit. If you're not into "hardball negotiating" that's fine! If it's just too stressful, don't worry. If the possibility of "looking cheap" in front of others makes you uncomfortable go ahead and pay full asking! (A lot of people do).

But don't look to unload it at a profit any time soon! Look, even if you're not interested in turning a quick buck we still owe it to ourselves to get the best possible price on "the buy" if for nothing else than from a pure balance sheet perspective!

Doug H,

Can I call you "Marshall Duncan" or what!

Some time back we ran a thread regarding neg. tactics and sure could have used your input back then! Your comments are most appropriate and welcome! Do tell more!

DinOR

Tom "the tool" Stevens' home has been on the market for a year! He's now going to take his agent's advice and lower his asking price!

"Which one you gonna kill first Marshall"*

Shorty, in High Plains Drifter*

Newsfreak,

DinOR is absolutely correct and his statement should not get lost in the present conversation as it is THE MOST important financial principle in the book and step number one in making money......

I'll paraphrase and say it again; it's that important!

Profit is made on the buying side
Profit is realized on the selling side

All you are doing when you sell is protecting the profit you made when you bought.

Doug H,

It is SO refreshing to hear your well chosen words! I preach (what to me are very rudimentary principles) and yet these basic concepts have a tendency to somehow get trampled in the process. We should start every thread with this "team prayer"!

Marshall Duncan was Clint Eastwood's character in High Plains Drifter. At the start of the movie he fades in on his trusty steed as if a mirage. At the end of the movie he fades out in the same manner. (In between a lot of people meet their end). I make a lot of "spaghetti western" analogies. I have a firm belief that just as in business the plot is really no more complicated. I like you though, steer clear of negative tactics.

SFWoman Says:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. lawmakers will question some leading government and industry economists about the perils of a possible ‘housing bubble’ in a Wednesday hearing.

I'm picturing something like the Congressional hearings in Godfather 2:

Tom Stevens is testifying, saying how there is no housing bubble, "we just sell olive oil and run a few casinos in Vegas." Then David Lereah testifies, about to spill the beans about the housing bubble and RE cartel, and his long-lost brother from the old country shows up in the audience. Days later, Lereah slashes his wrists in a hot bath.

HARM,

I realize you have an actual job but when you get the chance can you re-post the link to our Negotiating 101 Thread? This way Doug H can pick it apart for us with his "red pen"?

There's a new Sheriff in town!

skibum,

Yeah, given the "cast" I was wondering what kind of a dog and pony show this was going to be anyway?

When the NAR Chief's home has been on the market for a YEAR and he says he should've listened to his agent for a price reduction I think they've already sent what little of a msg. they could.

With gas prices sliding I think the consumer will be focused on holiday shopping (not house hunting) hence Robert Cote's Fall Maul (TM)!

SFWoman Says:

Apparently, things are going swimmingly, here as in Afganistan.

Janet Yellen seems more and more out of touch each time I see a quote from her. How do seemingly well-educated and intelligent economists come off as so clueless?