patrick.net

you forgot that he was an insider trader also...

they were talking about forming a Federated Iraq broken into shi'ite, sunni and kurdish regions. there are kurds agitating for recognition and secession in turkey also. i don't think the US can just unilaterally withdraw from iraq and leave a huge random political quagmire behind. it would more than leave the US's reputation in tatters, it would make them look like a reckless occupying force who violated a national's sovereignty for no reason and then failed in carrying out their hidden agenda. you couldn't show your face in the UN or even to the american people again. if you can just confabulate WMD in any country as a pretext for invading and then pull out leaving a mess behind, no country is safe from the same tactic from any other country. this is history repeating vis-a-vis vietnam, not just rhyming. this is my 'we're still fighting WWII' thesis. interesting how we don't learn in finance, relationships and warfare, only in technology...

object to the methods AND the attitude...

Asrid, physicians are the most regulated and scrutinized of all occupations. The AMA has very limited power and its the responsibility of State Med Bds to scrutinized physicians. after 4 years of university, 4-5 medical school, 3-8 years residency,endless tests and examinations, and typically 3-5 years slaving for a seasoned MD, there are very few "bad" doctors. In fact the MD's who garner the most litigation tend to be some of the very very best. If lawyers really believe in malpractice as a panacea, then why is there essentially none in their own? Judges release childmolesters and murderers with no consequences. My attorney sits on a state board. He tells me a lawyer just about has to kill someone to have his license permanently revoked. And lets start with socialized legal care where I can get a 600$/hour attorney free!

doc1,

Legal aid and pro bono is available to the destitute and near destitute. Furthermore, the sort of legal services that gets villanized (ambulance chasers and frivilous law suits) are usually on contingency arrangments where the lawyer is the driving force behind the suit - not exactly the sort of stuff we need or even want to socialize.

For other legal services - individual people tend to under-utilize legal services in estate planning and tax planning. It's really the corporations suing each other that generate the majority of serious lawsuits. And I see no reason for the government to pay to curb their legal bills.

My impression is that the medical field, like the legal field, has very high barriers to entry, but once you're in, you're pretty good and it takes some fairly stupid things to get kicked out again.

I am well aware of our legal system having attended law school. My point was that lets start with socialized legal services whereby the 700/hour lawyers provide services to everyone regardless of their ability to pay. This is the system at many of the major medical Centers whereby the poorest can receive the attention of the best and brightest. Go to the trauma centers in NY and you will receive care from some of the best surgeons anywhere (and guess who goes there with a gunshot wound?) The doctors I know who have been sued the most are typically the BEST! And that makes them targets. And guess who these malpratice lawyers want on the jury? The most retarded. The AMA has nothing to say about these maters they are governed by state medical boards.

Well put, guys. To thoroughly critique the ahistorical, apolitical 'false consciousness' world view of sfguy would take more writing than the entire contents of patrick.net to date... However, the ethical considerations of respecting national sovereignty, of representing the truth fairly, and so on, made in the points above, seem to have been entirely glossed over. Also note the Bulletin article pasted above which suggests that even America's English-speaking 'allies' (UK and Oz) at the grassroots level dislike the current American foreign policy approach and world view intensively.

Glad to see you don’t object to US supremacy per se, just the current methods.

I do to both! I just don't see American culture and systems of government as being more desirable than, say, English or French culture. Europe and British Commonwealth countries have produced cheap, 'socia1ised medicine', decent equitable welfare states, low rates of incarceration, lower rates of homicide, and so on. You are just parroting an 'attitude' that whichever group you happen to belong to is automatically the best. If you hadn't seceded from Britain 200 years ago, Americans would have 'socia1ised medicine' now. And probably better English too, without silly inaccurate phrases like 'socia1ised medicine' being coined.

There’s certainly good reasons to be suspicious but I think the fact that the US had obviously NOT planned for an occupation of Iraq after the war was over, would suggest we had no such intention and expected a fairly representative government to materialize probably within 5-6 months.

I didn't know western-friendly (read anglo-american) puppet governments were guaranteed to be 'fairly representative'. e.g. the US has been more than happy to instate right wing despots in countries around the world when suitable to its interests, to the detriment of the local populaces, e.g. Indonesia, S. America. And why was the Shah of Iran deposed by a popular movement?

That’s “plan” has certainly been proven way off but it seems we’re still hanging on to some hope we can get some semblance of democracy going.

Well, the US has only got a rough semblance of democracy itself at present, so I guess you're in the best position to reliably reproduce that result.

You MIGHT be able to produce a more workable division of borders than the last colonial effort in the middle east left behind, namely the segregation of warring religious and cultural factions into semi-autonomous federated regions or similar. With the agreement of the majority of stakeholders, of course, being the populace itself. Just as the population of the US is turning against the Hitler-like aspirations of the neocons, and fighting back against obvious domestic election rigging practices. It's high time for electoral reform in the US system of so-called democracy also.

But the hypocrisy of going after WMD when all intelligence and reports pointed to the contrary, and leaving despots alone in all other regions of the world which are devoid of oil riches and strategic placement in a difficult area is a little too much to stomach.

Regarding staying in the Pacific Rim (Oz), another English colony 12,000 miles from the homeland, I'm willing to take my chances. Besides, I can always go back to UK ;) I would rather do the ethically right thing at each step rather than take ethical shortcuts and giant leaps of bad faith. Good results can be obtained by peaceful trade rather than military bullying in the interests of 'peace'.

You can't be ethical by being unethical. You can't take the moral high ground by taking the low ground. Ref deontology vs teleology.

- intensively
+intensely

back to journalism school...

Did the "west" win WW2? I think many scholars disagree. Half of Europe was lost to Communist Russia. Millions of Judeo-Christian people were slaughtered by the Russians.This has nearly destroyed European Christianity. The Communist Europe has yet to recover. Communist Red China became a major global force and certainly controls southeast Asia. What did Roosevelt do, again?

Did the "west" win WW2? I think many scholars disagree. Half of Europe was lost to Communist Russia. Millions of Judeo-Christian people were slaughtered by the Russians.This has nearly destroyed European Christianity. The Communist Europe has yet to recover. Communist Red China became a major global force and certainly controls southeast Asia. What did Roosevelt do, again?

Mike, contrary to the history that you may have learned via Hollywood, many AMERICAN and British historians believe we lost WW2. If you visited places like libraries or bookstores you may have garnered some of this info. Do you understand the basic facts that half of europe was subsequently enslaved by Russian Communists? And that they still or may never recover? Do you accept that Communist Russia murdered MILLIONS of Jews (or do they not count according to you?) Was the limited freedom of europe worth 500k US lives?(And trillions of US$). Was the rise and dominance of Communist NUCLEAR China in the vacuum left by defeated Japan a victory? Was the slaughter and starvation of milions of Chinese and Russians by the Communists a victory? Do you have friends or relatives that fought against Communist Russia only to be executed? Do you realize that many believe the terrorist threats around the world stem from Russian Communists/KGB? Some "victory"....

Yogurt, I agree totally that there is an obesity problem in the US and that it is essentially ignored. But at least there is some imperative to maintain health because some healthcare costs have to be covered by the patient. But imagine the US if NO personal expenditure on healthcare was required. It would definitely exacerbate the problem. And more great news: the FOX network demanded more commercial time from the MLB. Now, there will be even more time for the MLB fatasses to sit on the bench and "fight obesity".

Mike, to specifically answer your question: Yes I do have relatives that spoke against the totalitarian government and were executed. Slavery? which nation leads the way for slave reparations? Medical human experimentation? Pennsylvania prisons take the gold medal in the 1970's-plenty of human experimentation. Concentration camps? Communist Europe had plenty of them in post War2. Or do these prisoners not matter to you? Euthanasia? Sadly, it is happening even in the US and even more so in Europe.

Mike, I think we agree on just about everything actually. This forum is interesting to me because there are un-conventional points of view presented.