patrick.net

@SFWoman,

Your lifestyle you describe is essentially what is touted as so great and fantastic in that book, "Why French Women Don't Get Fat." It's basically a lot of common sense and moderation.

If you are a militant hard-core vegan, then it would be quite difficult.

Very.

I am shocked, shocked I tell you that courts would award damages if criminal negligence did not occur!

Hmm... The one-click patent nonsense seemed to hold up, but I think they passed that off as a business method patent. Wait.. are those patentable? It's been some time since I watched that debate. Personally, I'd be happy if the PO started applying the "novel" and "nonobvious" tests instead of assuming the courts would clean up after them.

@SQT,

Posted before I saw your comment --I agree. I believe the old 2-week induction phase was unnecessary and helped give the diet a bad name. Most people just assume the extreme no-carbs phase IS the diet and don't bother researching any further.

A lot of people think that if they exercise a little they can eat like crazy but that’s really the wrong way to think about it.

On the other hand, if you exercise for a large enough portion of the day, you'll be too busy to find time to eat.

SP, we need lobby groups who have sufficient resources to fight the proliferation of global vegetarianism.

If some people become fat because they make silly choices, so be it.

@SFGuy,

Yes, I've seen that stuff. Unfortunately, I think much of the increasing obesity is due to global proliferation of the American lifestyle. I was surprised the last time I was in Europe that there were so many US-style big box stores. There are tons of McDonald's, KFC's and Pizza Huts. European kids exercise less, too. More insidiously, there has been a proliferation of packaged foods throughout Europe and beyond, ala the "middle aisles" of US supermarkets. Trans-fats for everyone!

I don't know if you've read about this, but NYC is considering banning trans-fats from all its restaurants. What you might not have known is that Denmark and the Netherlands already do this, and Spain never adopted trans-fats very much. However, the EU is fighting the Danish ban - it would make it "hard" on the food industry.

I don’t know if you’ve read about this, but NYC is considering banning trans-fats from all its restaurants.

We should be fair though. Arguments from all sides must be reviewed.

http://www.trans-fatfacts.com/

Over the past decade, the obesity rate among French children has doubled, from 6% to 12%, and between 1997 and 2003 the percentage of overweight and obese adults jumped from 37% to 42%. That growth curve parallels the one in the U.S. about 10 years ago.

It seems that the so-called "French Paradox" is about to be resolved. They are on track with the U.S. after all, just 10 years behind. :-(

I do not want trans-fat banned for the same reason why I do not want horse-meat or whale-hunting banned. The slope is very slippery.

We should be fair though. Arguments from all sides must be reviewed.

@Peter P,

Do you work for the food industry? Again, if you click on the link at the bottom of your link ("About Us"), it forwards to, guess what, the Center for Consumer Freedom yet again, the same group that gave us the obesity is not a problem. These guys remind me of the tobacco industry lobbying groups.

This site is completely WRONG. There is OVERWHELMING evidence that trans-fats increase mortality from heart disease. And this is from multiple well-designed epidemiologic studies from several countries. Based on these studies, the amount of mortality benefit you get from either quitting smoking or taking lipitor, say, is completely wiped out by the increased mortality risk by just eating an extra doughnut every morning.

But maybe we’ll find a way out of it and lead the Euros back to proper food.

But what is proper food?

We just need people to know all the facts and make their own choices.

I eat many things people considered maligned.

Do you work for the food industry?

I wish.

I don't know about that, Peter P. Trans-fat is nasty, nasty stuff. It's not a naturally occuring compound (requires heating oils to very high temperatures), so it does not break down in the body easily. Not really fit for human consumption, IMO. Of course, it greatly prolongs shelf life for packaged, highly processed foods, so naturally trans-fat (along with HFCS) is the darling of snack foods & dessert manufacturers.

Peter P Says:

I do not want trans-fat banned for the same reason why I do not want horse-meat or whale-hunting banned. The slope is very slippery.

I'm just as libertarian as the next housing bubble blogger, BUT, there has to be some kind of regulation on this, I must say. I do not want to go to a local bistro and get steak frites (once in a blue moon, of course) and worry that they used partially hydrogenated oils to fry the frites. I'd be perfectly happy with full disclosure. You don't realize how much of our food supply is tainted with the stuff.

If you're worried about a "slippery slope," we should legalize recreational drugs, abandon the speed limit, and legalize prostitution. They're all "choices," after all.

I would avoid trans-fat if at all possible. Even the site admits that it is unhealthy. But should it be banned?

I agree that restaurants should probably disclose any use of trans-fat though.

If you’re worried about a “slippery slope,” we should legalize recreational drugs, abandon the speed limit, and legalize prostitution. They’re all “choices,” after all.

Excessive speed has externalities on roads and other people's safety. I am not against decriminalizing drugs and prostitution.

@Peter P,
But restaurants and food manufacturers are "slipping" trans fats into our food supply without our knowledge (until this year for packaged foods, at least). This creates "externalities" that affect a far greater number of people in this country compared to auto accidents, for instance.

Excessive speed has externalities on roads and other people’s safety. I am not against decriminalizing drugs and prostitution.

Agree. Victimless crimes should not be crimes.

But restaurants and food manufacturers are “slipping” trans fats into our food supply without our knowledge (until this year for packaged foods, at least). This creates “externalities” that affect a far greater number of people in this country compared to auto accidents, for instance.

Then perhaps a law requiring disclosure is more appropriate? I would never knowingly use or consume trans-fat.

BTW,
Chicago (DinOR would be glad to know) is also considering a trans-fat ban.

Agree. Victimless crimes should not be crimes.

Exactly.

Consciously making some decisions should have implications to your Health Care. i.e. if you decide to smoke 3 packs a day, I do not want to pay for your lung cancer!

@J Galt,

Bingo! Thanks for bringing it back to the thread topic. The bigger problem is that most Americans want the gluttony (and other vices), but they don't want to pay for the consequences.

Consciously making some decisions should have implications to your Health Care. i.e. if you decide to smoke 3 packs a day, I do not want to pay for your lung cancer!

I agree too.

SFWoman Says:

Popeye’s chicken uses pork fat to fry in. I asked them.

Thank goodness for lard! Honestly, though, lard is better for you than trans-fats. I wish McDonalds would go back to frying their fries in lard. It would at least be the better of 2 evils.

Lard is good.

Said it before, I'll say it again:

Excessive junk food intake is analogous to excessive debt intake.

jumbo McAlbatross ~ jumbo McWaistline
subprime mortgage ~ sub-par junk food
useless bling ~ empty calories
leased SUVs ~ super-size McMeal
extra plasmas ~ extra fridges
NAAVLP ~ trans-fat

I was considered a bit zaftig and was told by a sales clerk that I had giant breasts once.

Please supply photos, so the uh, "experts", here at Patrick.net can evaluate more thoroughly.

Any kind of social medicine should include mandatory periodic visits to a health care practitioner, (not necessarilly a doctor).

Not bad.

Fair enough.

You can’t punish someone who is 60 today and started smoking 40 years ago, even if they’re a boomer.

Sure you can. The Surgeon General's warning went out over 60 years ago:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_packaging_warning_signs

-over 60 years ago
+over 40 years ago

The point still stands, though.

RE: cigarette use and warnings, the interesting and sad thing I found out when I was rotating through a VA hospital as a student was that during WWII, the military would hand out cigarette cartons to the GI's in appreciation for their service. I've met many a Vet who ended up addicted to tobacco as a result.

@SF Woman and others,

Yes, in general, Europeans are slightly shorter than Americans. Scandinavia is an exception, and the Netherlands too. In fact, the Dutch are on average the tallest people on the planet. Just look at all those lanky speed skaters during the Olympics, or look at someone like Rik Smits. Interestingly, this is a relatively recent (20th Century) phenomenon. The reasons for this are unknown.

Skibum, unfortunate things happen and unfortunate decisions are made. Hopefully knowledge will steer people towards the right behavior.

Back to housing, though. I wonder if many obese Americans would be able to even live comfortably in the smaller homes built during previous generations. Maybe that's why McMansions *need* to be built!

@SFGuy,
They could *possibly* be using certain vegetable oils which has no trans-fats and little or no cholesterol. However, I sorta doubt that. The biscuits would taste awful.

Other than a perfectly round tummy, I look normal.

HARM,

Could you erase some of my comments from the bottom of "Has Hell Finally Frozen Over?". Thanks!

Hope they pass Prop 86. I wish they would have jacked the cost of a pack of cig to like 10 bucks or something. Hate when ppl smoke and come back inside the office without washing up.

Wait a minute, thanks to section8 and/or illegal creative lending, I guess it is the same for housing too

What are you talking about? People who buy have to settle for crappy 1950 2/1 bungalows. People who use section8 and/or illegal creative lending get to have brand new homes.