Otherwise - too many people with weapons just makes everything worse.

Does it really? Do you think it would be a bad thing if more law abiding people armed themselves? I fail to see the logic.

ZippyDDoodah says

You don’t believe in guns.. is that sort of like not believing in the tooth fairy?

its a convenient philosophy that keeps the Californian sense of moral superiority intact. If my neighbor shoots him then I'm still good with the peeps down at the yoga studio.

my basic feeling is that most people who have guns don’t know how to use them, can’t shoot straight etc. etc.

Just wondering if you might be willing to substantiate this position with something more than what you "feel" might be true.

seems to me your problem was dealing with someone on drugs and not having your own gun. Must be perspective. On one hand a group wants everyone smoking dope and nobody having guns, on the other hand is me and the other normal Americans.

People killed people long before there were guns or even tools. Many times there have been human vs human battles to the death for very good reasons - like survival from attack, or for a special prize (like the only non-related woman left in the tribe). And sometimes the bloodline from the Vandals and/or Huns shows itself and a person is murdered for sport. That is why murder is wrong, but killing is not.

I have a gun, and I have many weapons. I may still be murdered, but, maybe -- just maybe -- I'll be able to save you from being murdered.

If you can make a fist, and have done so, then you have carried a deadly weapon - the bare naked human hand has taken millions of lives. A weapon is a tool. If you want to use your fist to drive a nail, you can. Or, you can use a hammer. If you want to use a ball-bat to keep the attacking invaders from taking your 10 year old daughter, you can. Or, you can use a shotgun. Sure, they may still rape both of you, but there will be fewer of them. Or, you will have the choice to use the last two shells on you and her to save her from what the invaders have in mind. Bad people make good people make tuff choices.

seems to me your problem was dealing with someone on drugs and not having your own gun. Must be perspective. On one hand a group wants everyone smoking dope and nobody having guns, on the other hand is me and the other normal Americans.

There's also the recreational dope smoker who still needs to defend his family and possessions against criminal invaders using his handgun, rifle or shotgun. I agree 100% with your basic point Bap33

personal accountablity is a most important requirement for a free society to work. With that in place, dope smoking would lose it's wonder lust in a hurry. And if not, it would still be ok, because anyone the smoked dope and did anything wrong would not be able to use the dope smoking as a way to avoid personal accountablity. Non-sober actions resulting in a death would be treated as 1st degree murder with a hanging for the responsible party at noon the next Saturday. Get things leaning that way, and I'll ease up on my anti-drug view.

Bap33 says

seems to me your problem was dealing with someone on drugs and not having your own gun.

haha. I don't think I would even read these forums if Bap wasn't here. :)