patrick.net

This comment refers to this one snippet:

Come to think of it, should I be responsible for policing my own neighborhood, too?

I think that's the growing trend. People are giving up on the idea that government can and should protect them. Which leads to an infinite loop - people are less willing to fund things/care about civics, and the cycle repeats.

Personally, I think gated communities in Texas is the model that America is headed towards:

1) Gated communities: To keep the "bad" people out. Maybe have some guards. No need for a city police force - just a HOA rent-a-cop and good gates and fences.

Need to go outside the HOA to the mall? You can rent security to go with you to the mall. (Actually I think that exists already.)

2) Private schools. Period.: Funding public schools means that you're paying for everyone to go to school. Including people who don't want to go to school. How is that fair?

3) Personal electrical generators for everyone. Clearly we can't on the power grid - and again, why should people invest in fixing it? Again, that contributes to the public good and that's not fair.

4) Bottled water. Period.: Why invest in our doomed infrastructure? For the billions we'll spend on fixing them, what will your share be as a taxpayer? If you're in the higher brackets, you'd be better off taking that money, buying bottled water, and investing the rest.

FWIW, this direction that air travel is heading in: more businesses and rich people are choosing to buy fractional jets or their own planes for convenience. This reduces the revenue and subsidization of economy pax. Eventually, mass transit on planes will be no better than mass transit on buses - so if you really want to fly somewhere, you have to go on your personal jet.

This makes it greatly more efficient for those who can afford it, and greatly stresses those who need it. You know, like the migration from mass transit and walking to building car-only communities.

(The idea that a person has to drive 25 miles a day and pay for insurance to work at a $5.15/hour job is brilliant! Gotta keep 'em down and keep 'em working.)

That's Freedom(TM): being free from having to contribute to the inefficiencies of the public good, in order to provide the best for you and your family.

Anything else would be Communism.

(Caution: maybe cynical and negative)

Don’t I have *some right* to expect that the people who are legally employed as market “professionals” behave in a marginally professional and lawful way (i.e, not trying to anally rape me at every opportunity)?

Actually, no, you don't. The people you cited are not professionals. They have no duty of care or fiduciary responsibility. The sooner you understand that, the sooner you will learn to keep your eyes open and the better off you will be.

Eventually, mass transit on planes will be no better than mass transit on buses

-It is already at that point. Have you flown economy lately? I went to Mexico two weekends ago with a friend. We did a last minute cheapo Expedia trip (the husbands had the kids skiing on MLK weekend). They herd you around like cattle, they don't provide food anymore, they sell it to you or people bring it on the plane (I just luv sitting near someone with stale McDonald's). The planes are hours late with no explanation (although we did get an apology). We are at the point of airlines being flying buses. Europe's aircraft manufacturer even admits it- Airbus.

I don't think that fractional or hourly jets are the future, they are so expensive that only a very small number of people can use them. I looked at flying seven of us to France this summer on a jet share- $187,000. No thanks. I think the future is the business class only flights, there are several out of NY now, and they are worth the premium, and the super cheapo discount carriers for the masses and the young.

As to caveat emptor- if the people profiting were ultimately the ones assuming the risk and paying for the fall out I'd agree, but we know that won't be the case. With the secondary market for mortgages was there ever any incentive to keep things on the up and up? No, the socialization of risk has perverted the system.

Big “L” Libertarianism always strikes me as a bit solipsistic.

Prove to me that you exist.

I think, therefore I am. :)

The people you cited are not professionals. They have no duty of care or fiduciary responsibility.

Yes. And herein lies the biggest problem of public perception. The public almost universally *believes* mortgage brokers and realtwhores ARE "professionals" with fiduciary responsibility.

Stockbrokers are required by law NOT to make claims like "stocks always go up" or "20% is in the bag" and are prevented by law from certain conflicts of interest --like personally trading the stocks they're hawking to other people.

Why can't Realtwhores and mortgage brokers be regulated like stockbrokers? I'd say the time has come.

SFWoman, I flew from Taiwan to Hong Kong last year. They managed to squeeze a full lunch on a 90-minute flight. I was NOT flying business or first.

I think only some airlines are bad.

I think the future is the business class only flights, there are several out of NY now, and they are worth the premium, and the super cheapo discount carriers for the masses and the young.

I think premium economy is the future. Most people do not need the individual attention of business class service. However, they may want a decent "tray" meal and a comfortable seat for a reasonable premium (less than 30% over regular economy).

Really good post and thread topic, HARM. I think the system is now WORSE than feudal, as you now have so much spin and manipulation and middlemen involved in the process.

(Of course, when I wonder aloud, the echoes of accusations of Trotskyism reverberate for aeons through the halls of patrick...)

Virgin Atlantic seem to pack in more features than most in economy class, from what I've heard. Then they are talking about more 'sub business class' fares where people pay a little more than economy for more leg room etc. There must be something in between BYO stale Mcdonalds and hiring your own jet... Even 1st class to France x 7 would only come to $20K tops, wouldn't it?

oh, that's what Peter P said ;)

As to caveat emptor- if the people profiting were ultimately the ones assuming the risk and paying for the fall out I’d agree, but we know that won’t be the case. With the secondary market for mortgages was there ever any incentive to keep things on the up and up? No, the socialization of risk has perverted the system.

Yes. This brings me back to one of my favorite themes: Socialize Risk, Privatize Profit. Otherwise know as the "reverse Robin Hood". Mortgage brokers, banksters, REITs and MBS issuing firms are the biggest Social-ists on the planet --but only in one direction.

Death to Fannie Mae, death to Freddie Mac, and death to Alan Greedspan (and his "legacy").

Don’t I have *some right* to expect that the people who are legally employed as market “professionals” behave in a marginally professional and lawful way (i.e, not trying to anally rape me at every opportunity)?

Come to think of it, isn't that what so-called 'professionals' do as well? Think legal fees, medical salaries, and so on... It's just that they've managed to institute it better...

(Although my contacts with RE agents and rent managers over the last couple of years suggests they're rude, immoral, arrogant and indifferent -- kind of what happens if you let inarticulate schoolyard bullies who barely graduated from HS fixated at Stage 2 of Kohlberg's moral reasoning model rule the roost -- the worst offenders are a chain called 'The Professionals' of all things...)

(Of course, when I wonder aloud, the echoes of accusations of Trotskyism reverberate for aeons through the halls of patrick…)

:-) Well, I'm not really in favor of more government housing subsidies --quite the contrary actually. But I believe we could use a lot more of the "right" kind of regulation. As in, better aligning risks and rewards, and jailing people for committing outright fraud and market manipulation.

A mate of mine flew Egypt Air once, and the steward was a male, apparently something like Borat, who handed out inflight food as sandwiches from a plastic bucket. He emphatically declared 'No smoking!' to the whole flight, and went down the back, sat down, and proceeeded to light up a smoke, savouring every lungful with expansive gestures... I think it only got worse...

MANDATING the price of land and stopping profiteering and heading off booms is NOT a subsidy!

You cannot mandate the price of anything. Doing so will cause huge economic inefficiency.

@DS,

C'mon, now. Wouldn't you WANT to see Greedspan or D. Lereah in jail? I'd happily volunteer 1/2 of my net worth to see it happen right now.

HARM, stockbrokers are not fiduciaries either.

DS, don't be silly about claiming Trotsky as inspiration. Some of my best friends are Trotskyites. You're a Stalinist through and through.

Of course, if all else fails, govt subsidies are an option... I would take the subsidies out of the land tax levied on investment properties to help people get into the housing market. Therefore, you would be punishing landlords to give renters a chance at getting into their own housing... There's a risk and reward balance for you...

RE: MANDATING the price of land

What Peter P said.

George Bush is a Stalinist...

ok, huge economic 'inefficiency' from controlling the price of land in a sensible direction. and the entire pathology as pointed out in this thread of middlemen and corruption, of excessive land prices, of looming macro- and micro-economic disaster, of housholds cleaned out, is 'an EFFICIENT market'? When you put the wolves in charge of the flock? hmmm

DS,

Air France had a sale on business class tickets, so I bought them. They were $3000/each (I think the sale is till on, and it is good for flights through the end of the summer at least). That I can handle. The first class were about $7000 each at the time, I am way too cheap to buy those. Regular full fare economy were $1800, so the business class tickets were priced appropriately. I hate when they are 5x economy, then I am too cheap to buy them.

I would love an entirely premium economy airline.

I flew Air Turkey once (I got 99 pound round trip tickets London/Istanbul). It was filled with Borat types walking up and down the aisle smoking, people were getting stuff out of overhead bins during take offs and landings and they served cherry juice as the beverage. The stewardesses were these beautiful green eyed blond Turkish women who rolled their eyes at everyone and read fashion magazines the entire flight. Borat would have fit in with the other passengers beautifully.

SFWoman, I flew from Taiwan to Hong Kong last year. They managed to squeeze a full lunch on a 90-minute flight. I was NOT flying business or first.

I think only some airlines are bad.

Not for long they won't be. There's a whole bunch of discount asian airlines that are now finally really getting into the full swing of things.

They're at where RyanAir was many years ago. When they reach the RyanAir stage - watch out!

It's only a matter or time.

eburbed,

I flew British Midlands from London to Edinburgh once. They served lunch. It was simple, a sandwich, crisps and a beverage. The stewardess handed my husband the lunch box and he asked "What type of sandwich is it?' and she replied, 'Oh, it's cold lamb liver.' My husband said, 'Oh, I'm a vegetarian, do you have anything else?' (He's not, but that was an acceptable lie, IMHO). She gave him the cheese and Bransten pickle sandwich.

Who on earth thought, 'Hmmm, let's go with a sandwich everyone is sure to love. I know, cold slices of lamb's liver.'?

George Bush is a Stalinist...

How do you like being in the same camp then?

What can be expected of them other than promoting sales?

Not much --they are all salesmen. But when the guy from Morgan Stanley gets 10-20 for backdating a few stock options, while my local Realtwhore can go on stating "it never goes down" or "20% a year is in the bag" as FACT with NO repercussions, something is seriously F&#%ed up.

Fraudulent behavior is another issue and should be punished, but fraud is not what causes mass hysteria during market bubbles.

Partially disagree on this point. AG's 1%, risk-offloading via Fannie/Freddie and other government subsidies are what really got the ball rolling here --that much I agree with. But MASSIVE FRAUD and reckless speculation at all levels of the money chain at the very least hugely contributed to the enormous size and longevity of this bubble. And of course, let's not forget the look-the-other way, nod-nod/wink-wink complicity at all levels of government by our beloved "regulators".

There’s no saving someone from self destructive behavior.

True, but at least force the *idiot* or the *idiot's lender* to foot the bill for their stupidity --not me.

Who on earth thought, ‘Hmmm, let’s go with a sandwich everyone is sure to love. I know, cold slices of lamb’s liver.’?

I remember in grade school I always wondered why the British were out at sea looking for tea and spices.

And then I visited England and had a meat pie.

DS,

W isn't a Stalinist. I agree that he represses dissent and opposing viewpoints and tends toward dictatorship, but Stalin was just mad about communism, and I don't see W putting forward any ideas on doing much to spread the wealth to the common man.

Who is the guy with the orange Man Tan in the top left photo on this thread?

eburbed,

I have had good meat pies. I have also had bad meat pies. I like good cornish pasties.

England had great Indian food. I went to a couple of fantastic places in the East End. I actually ate well when I lived there.

Actually, the man looks like Shrek, but orange.

@SFWoman,

Hover your mouse over the photo and the identifying caption will show.

Not much –they are all salesmen. But when the guy from Morgan Stanley gets 10-20 for backdating a few stock options, while my local Realtwhore can go on stating “it never goes down” or “20% a year is in the bag” as FACT with NO repercussions, something is seriously F&#%ed up.

Backdating options is dramatically worse than just lying about stats. The victim, shareholders, aren't even there to defend themselves. That's outright theft.

Lying Realtors on the other hand at least have to have the chutzpah to tell you that "it always goes up".

I'm going to have to take the side of the drug dealers on this one: The Sheeple are to blame. They didn't have to buy the product.

Speaking of sheeple:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070125/hl_nm/rampant_consumerism_dc

From that piece:

James freely admits that interviewing the affluent in Sydney was a depressing job, calling it "the Dolly Parton of cities in Australia, the most vacuous."

I know next to nothing about Sydney - what's going on there??

@cruzpo & eburbed,

Perhaps that was a poor choice for direct comparison. How about hawking your own real estate to buyers w/out disclosing that the "seller" also happens to be a good "friend" who also happens to be a flip partner. Or presenting shill bids as real ones? Or running a scam where you use the identity of a homeless guy to buy multiple properties with big cash-backs, then split town?

Stockbrokers are also not allowed to provide rosy "guarantees" of stock appreciation, are they? When I see "Past performance is no guarantee of future results" across EVERY piece of Realtor propaganda, that's the day I'll change my mind.

Borat is actually more Turkish/near Eastern in character, it's a bit of a copy of this man, who should be demanding co-royalties... kazakhstanis are more asiatic in constitution, principally due to genghis khan...

I had never before noticed that David Lereah looks like Bob Saget.

cruzpo Says:
Greed, Keeping up with The Jones’s and ignorance have driven this real estate market on the buyers side. What can be expected of them other than promoting sales? Fraudulent behavior is another issue and should be punished, but fraud is not what causes mass hysteria during market bubbles.

Absolutely right. You can't attribute the housing boom we've seen in many countries to fraudulent or illegal activity -- that would mean that every inflationary transaction was somehow fraudulent. There have certainly been instances of fraud, and cashing in, and misrepresentation, but the boom has been driven by greed, fear, easy credit, and so on... a case where the 'invisible hand of the market' has certainly not operated in a constructive or healthy way...

eburbed Says:
I know next to nothing about Sydney - what’s going on there??

Next to nothing...

(that was the short answer ;) the long answer would be longer...)