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Peter P
2007 Mar 14, 2:22am
If they must bailout something, they should bailout the large banks. Individuals should learn to Face Reality.
I guess I am a "liquidationist."
"Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate."
--Andrew Mellon
Remember, the war got the US out of the Great Depression. The social programs did precisely nothing.
@Sriram Gopalan - I just sent an email to Diane Feinstein asking her to oppose Dodd’s plan.
Let this Dod asshole pay for the bailout with HIS OWN money!
Peter P
2007 Mar 14, 2:24am
I have put a far larger down payment on a car…
My theory is that one should put enough doan payment on a car to cover the initial depreciation (purchase price + tax + fees - blue book trade-in price).
lunarpark,
What's classic is this quote from your map of misery article:
""It's certainly reasonable to expect to see some excesses wrung out," says Brad A. Morrice, president and CEO of New Century Financial Corp."
I don't know when the article was originally published, but Brad A. Morrice is some kind of predictive genius, I guess... ;-)
Here is another "bailout" article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070314/pl_nm/usa_subprime_reform_dc_1
Who is the NCRC anyway?
"Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful." -Warren Buffet
It might be time to dip a toe in the mortgage lenders market, since the common wisdom is that it is all going to hell. What do people think about AHM? They have a portfolio of ARM mortgages, but no sub-primes, have a 18% dividend and claim that they are fine, not like those icky sub-prime lenders.
DinOR,
Some of the guys aren't nice. They aren't nice to the waiters or support staff or whomever. My husband said Angelo is respectful to people and polite. My husband doesn't work for him, he's not a client. They might be on a board together, or he's on a board that is a client or something.
Where is Marina Prime or ConfusedRealtor.? I want to see "the market's on fire! They aren't building land anymore!"
When will people (especially statists of both kinds) realize that creative destruction is essential to this whole process?
What would happen if the government kept bailing out every failing business? From a narrow, human interest story point of view it might look like a good idea. In the evening news, you can show all the Moms and Pops who were saved because the government bailed them out. But in reality, bad businesses should fail. That is the only way to ensure that good businesses succeed and the only way for us all to find out what works and what doesn't.
It is the same deal with investments. People who make bad investments should lose money. This includes loaners and loanees(?). That is the only way people will learn what is a good investment and what is not. That is the only way we have accountability and personal responsibility. A society without such features is a stagnant, dying society.
Every year I stay in this so-called "land of the free", I am becoming more and more disillusioned.
The next time an obvious bubble comes along I am gonna dive right in and make huge, stupid "investments". You hard-working suckers with your tax money will have to bail me out!
Let this Dod asshole pay for the bailout with HIS OWN money!
allah, i agree with you. However, the essential function of a politician is to take someone else's money and spend it on someone else, according to Milton Friedman. So that aint gonna happen.
Siriam,
That report on Sen. Dodd's proposal pi$$sed me off to no end. I've never done this before, but I just sent an email to Dodd on his website. I encourage everyone here to do the same:
Jimbo,
I think NCRC kind of dovetails with The Center for Responsible Lending in their commitment to "sustainable home ownership" and stability and growth in communities.
This whole bailout issue is ridiculous! It's like stuffing 10lbs. of shit into a 1 lbs. bag and when it starts to break, out with the duct tape!
Peter P
2007 Mar 14, 2:36am
When will people (especially statists of both kinds) realize that creative destruction is essential to this whole process?
In the 20's.
"“Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate. Purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people."
I believe in this school of thoughts.
The dollar has been looking very scary for the past month. I can almost hear those printing presses printing up money for the first helicoptor drop!
skibum,
It was alright for me to get in a plug on the "24 Month Club" too, right?
It was alright for me to get in a plug on the “24 Month Club†too, right?
Huh?
@skibum,
250/500K Cap Gains Exemption on "primary" residence every OTHER year?!
Peter P
2007 Mar 14, 2:50am
250/500K Cap Gains Exemption on “primary†residence every OTHER year?!
The right thing to do is to eliminiate the capital gains tax.
“In the U.S. Senate, Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd (news, bio, voting record) said he may offer a bill to protect consumers who were “victimized†by subprime mortgages they can no longer afford.â€
But how will "victimized" be defined? That is the question.
Peter P
2007 Mar 14, 2:51am
I completely agree with both of these statements. If people were victimized and can prove it, they should be allowed to walk away unscathed.
Huh? They were victimized by themselves and their stupidity. I say liquidate borrowers!
Peter P,
Agreed, but let's level the playing field and do it across the board. :)
PAR,
I for one am not assuming there will be any scenario that leads to, as you put it, where "JBRs are going to get envelopes in the mail so that we can send checks directly to FBs."
I believe that this is just a lot of political grandstanding by a Dem who envisions himself a "fighter for the common man," and who's more "common" than a FB. I'm sure he'll get some good political mileage out of this proposal, but I bet, and I pray that this thing dies in Committee. FBs (especially subprime) hold absolutely no political clout - heck, does that segement even vote? - but let's hope Dodd's idea doesn't snowball.
On the other hand, the real political clout is held by the brokerage houses, HFs, institutional investors that will probably bear a significant part of this fallout.
Peter P
2007 Mar 14, 3:00am
Agreed, but let’s level the playing field and do it across the board.
Hmm.....
I got it done–thanks for the link. Whew, they ask for a lot of identifying info–guess they want to cutback on the threats that he’ll be getting now?
Doesn't mean you have to give him your true identity. :lol:
It's like - Sen. Dodd to all the FBs : "Help is on the way".
Does anyone else remember that slogan from almost 8 years ago ? You know how the guy helped the people he promised to help.
I said real estate is our new religion. Christian Weller says it's a game of Jenga:
"Christian Weller, a senior economist at the liberal Center for American Progress in Washington, likened the housing market to the parlor game of Jenga, in which wooden pieces are piled into a tower, then removed one by one.
Fewer loans. Fewer sales. Lower prices.
"We know the bottom part is being pulled out," Weller said. "We don't know if the top is going to come crashing down on us."
Peter P
2007 Mar 14, 3:12am
Real estate is a souffle. It rises and rises. But when you poke it with a spoon, it will lose some air.
They should take a vote on what everyone wants with their names and addresses:
1) FB bailout.
2) No FB bailout.
All those who vote for 1) will fund it. The only ones who will fund it will be the FB's.
@ skibum,
Well, no argument there! However I do feel it's important to get to the root cause of issues and the more of us that chime in the harder it becomes to sweep it under the carpet!
I mean, what WOULD motivate a guy to buy a house when he knows his credit sucks, the payments are out of his comfort zone, will likely re-set (driving them further out of reach) and pay an inflated price along w/inflated taxes?
C'ain't be but one thang and that's FREE MONEY!
How many of them would still have thunk it's a "bargain" to go out on a limb like that if there wuz a balook'in tax bill at the end of it?
Mama-lukah-boo-boo-day! (I rest my case) :)
The only "victimized" borrowers are those who were forced to sign up for a mortgage loan at gunpoint. Anyone know any such borrower?
Everyone else chose to get into a loan worth millions of dollars over a period of thirty years, of their own volition. They are supposed to do the research; it is their responsibility. If you walk up to a stranger and offer him one hundred dollars of easy money, his first question would be "whats the catch?"
These people, in their greed, took on loans that they shouldn't have taken on. Some managed to sell at the peak and consider themselves to be real estate moghuls.
Those who didn't are suddenly victims? If someone's greed and stupidity blinds their innate sense of caution, how does that make them victims?
BTW, good analysis on this topic
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2007/03/1st-helicopter-drop-now-being-organized.html
A generally good economic blog.
The only “victimized†borrowers are those who were forced to sign up for a mortgage loan at gunpoint. Anyone know any such borrower?
This is exactly right! I have been saying this for years!
Borrowers who play this babe of the woods routine piss me off!!!
They commited a crime by lying on the application with help of a broker. Now they're going to get away with it?
I think I am going to hook up with a bunch of thugs and rob a bank! If I don't get caught, I'll be rich! If I get caught, I'll just say that they made me do it, they'll let me go and I'll be no richer or poorer! Sounds like a solid business plan to me.
Siriam,
Exactly. It's like the "victims" of all those spams from some Nigerian finance minister begging for help to free up his millions of dollars with a promise of a cut of the pie. These "victims" are victims of their own greed, stupidity and lack of common sense. Yes, some foreign "dignitary" has searched out YOU, Mr. Amerikan dude, as the best way for him to redeem himself in his noble effort. Go for it, but don't cry when you've lost your shirt!
allah,
Why rob a bank when you can just walk in during regular business hours and rob your OWN home w/a cash out re-fi?
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Subprimes selling off again. Lots of pundits feigning astonishment that there might actually be a 2nd leg to the correction. Heaven forfend.
I'm not a full time investment professional, just someone who works with finance & economics a good bit. I'm hoping to get comment from our pros:
How far is the subprime ill likely to spread (US & Int'l)? I doubt it the damage remains isolated to lenders, banks and homebuilders. I also doubt it is likely to undermine CalPERS and leave grandma begging for bread crusts on the street.
For what it's worth, I think there's going to be at least a couple more nasty down-legs as hedge funds start eating it. A lot of "hedge" funds forgot the whole "hedge" part of "hedge fund". I expect a lot of mayhem as the lucky ones unwind and the others dissolve.
And I think most of the pundits are missing the big credit/liquidity squeeze that's approaching. Consumer spending hasn't been all HELOC driven, there's a whole pile of "junk" debt sitting around that people used to buy all the crap they have today. All it takes is for the Capital One's to start pulling in risk a bit -- making it a bit harder and more expensive to buy crap on credit -- and the early legs of this correction will be but fond memories.
Let's hope employment does stay strong long enough to stave off good old fashioned stagflation. Luckily, so far so good. Steep losses in real estate related employment are being absorbed by other industries. So far.
#housing