patrick.net

As a long time responsible gun owner (who has never shot an animal with a gun or even pointed a gun at a person) I thought I would chime in…

Brand Says:

> You know, I’m not a gun nut. I don’t even own a gun.
> But if everybody in Columbine had been packing heat,
> that siege would have lasted 10 seconds.

Then Different Sean Says:

> oh right, that would have been a pleasant scenario. it
> must be nice living in a clint eastwood movie while
> calling it ‘modernity’.

Most people in American that want to have guns carry them all the time and it is not like “living in a Clint Eastwood movie”. When you pull the drug dealers, gang members, criminals and suicidal idiots out of the mix there is very little gun violence in America. The problem we have has nothing to do with a large number of guns it has to do with a large number of drug dealers, gang members, criminals and suicidal idiots

> They got the guns ‘illegally’ in a country where it’s
> easy to get guns. (There’s a leaching effect between
> states when laws differ.) Hence, it’s illegal in Australia
> now to possess anything much beyond a single-shot
> rifle (with proper licensing), and now illegal to carry a
> knife on your person with a blade longer than 2″. You
> will find it hard to steal guns even from ‘collectors’ as
> a result.

This may come as a shock to Different Sean, but you can still easily get illegal guns in Australia if you really want them just like you can easily get illegal pot, coke and heroin anywhere in the US. If we banned every gun in America tomorrow they would still be easier to get than illegal drugs (since you don’t smoke, snort, or inject guns the supply of guns just gets bigger and bigger every year)…

> ‘Pipe bombs’ are not going to do anywhere near the
> damage that firearms will. I’ve never heard of a pipe
> bomb siege of a school, btw.

Tell that to the widows of the US troops killed in Iraq (more have been killed by IEDs aka “Pipe Bombs” than gunfire)…

> Bottom line: while you have massive domestic production
> of guns, a ‘gun culture’ and easy availability, you will
> continue to have school and shopping mall massacres.

Bottom line we have more nut balls in America than most of the first world (but as bad as out psychos are they can’t hold a candle to the massacres in the third world)…

> First off, the second amendment is meant to protect the
> American people from their own government.

I’m not joking when I say that I’m impressed that a foreigner will at least weigh in on the modern interpretation of the US constitution. It is sad to say that I might be able to walk from SF to NY without meeting a single person who knows anything about a foreign constitution (and I would bet that well over half of my fellow Americans would not have any idea what our 2nd amendment was about)…

Michael,

The Nazis saw themselves as the "good guys" too. So did the English and French imperialists. Do did Genghis Khan and Attila the Hun.

If we're to meddle so deeply in the internal politics of another nation, the least we can do is cut out the vanity of "I'm the good guy" and constructively look at what's possible. Nobody is right all the time and nobody is wrong all the time. If you won't even bother to think about the other side of the story, you're already in the wrong.

FAB,

I'm a lot more worried about the state of Amendments 3-10. I bet only one in twenty five people know what they are.

Esp. 4th, 5th, and 6th. Very few people worry about how much the Bush administration has eroded those three Amendments.

Malcolm Says:

> I just saw a post office mailbox painted
> as R2D2. That is awesome!

Were heading in to the Presidio (toward the Lucas campus) through the Lombard gate (or are the R2D2 mailboxes popping up all over the place)?

astrid

We part company on the interpretation of US accomplishments post 1965. You are white washing fundamental, paradigm shifting changes world wide which have occurred in the 1965+ period which are the result of distinctly American innovations.

We're conversing over one of those right now.

As I look at this graph, it tells most of the story:

The US, UK, Germany then France account for just about all the Nobel prizes awarded. The US has more than 3x those of France. Of course people criticize the Nobel system of recognition. I've yet to hear any of those critics offer a better alternative.

astrid Says:

> FAB, I’m a lot more worried about the state of Amendments
> 3-10. I bet only one in twenty five people know what they are.

When most American’s can tell you the name of the people who came in 3rd through 10th on American Idol but don’t have any idea what the 3rd or 10th Amendments to the Constitution are about is there any wonder that so many people are making poor financial decisions (“wow you can get me cash to buy some spinning 24’s for my Hummer and put fake granite in the old lady’s kitchen “and” lower my payment, that’s great. I wonder why I waited so long to get me one of these neg am/IO/HELOCs)…

Randy,

You're right, I spoke too broadly as to subject and too narrowly as to time. I was thinking about political shifts rather than technological accomplishments. America was and still is ahead in technological innovations, though not as ahead as we used to be.

Even politically, America is still doing some good. It is simply frustrating that a great country, with so much ability to do good, has gone down the wrong path and mired itself in a dangerous quagmire. If America has the geopolitical significance of Zimbabwe, the misrule would merely be a tragedy for its citizens. But we're more than that and have a higher standard to live up to, and I think we're failing that ideal more and more.

"The stawberry picker most be a drug dealer on the side. : )"

I always wondered about those "flower sellers" who stand in the medians next to stop lights...

@FAB: since the minorities usually believe that someone from their country will not screw them…

Note that this thinking is not limited to recent immigrants. I had a business associate who spent his early childhood in India but lived in the U.S. for most of his life. He has no trace of an accent and is quite thoroughly assimilated. He entered into a deal despite my warnings with a company based out of India, with a U.S. subsidiary run by Indians; my alarm bells started going off when the company demanded an absurdly long time for payment terms. The overriding rationale he employed was they were from the same country, they couldn't possibly screw him over. The end client paid in full, the Indian-owned U.S. subsidiary paid on 10% of the invoice, then stiffed him (and a bunch of other U.S. consultants) when they filed bankruptcy and just pulled out of the country. The parent company told us they had no responsibility, erased all traces of their U.S. presence from their web site, then sat on their bankruptcy filing until the middle of last year when they simply had it terminated (with no discharge of debts).

He was more livid that his own countrymen thoroughly screwed him over than the actual amount of money that was involved. We're still pursuing the debt more than two years later.

After that first-hand experience, it doesn't surprise me at all that there are complete scumbags who will sign up their fellows with the same ethnic background into suicidal loan products, and even fraudulently fill out the papers. There are absolutely no repercussions for mortgage brokers who egregiously step over the line, unless a real estate attorney was paid to help shepherd the papers at the same time, and most home buyers today seem unwilling to shell out $2-3K for an attorney as part of the transaction.

Well, were you born in CA? There is such a thing as voting your senators out if you truly dislike them.

astrid,
I never claimed I was. And voting out the likes of Feinstein or Boxer are about as likely in this pseudo-liberal state is about as likely as Casey Serin ending up in jail - just about nil.

The Congressional delegation is lame, I'll agree. Perfect example of this knee-jerk reactionary old-school liberalism - Henry Waxman.

skibum,

The reason I asked was because you were following up to Space Ace's comments about carpetbagging liberals hijacking (since Pelosi and Feinstein were both from the East Coast, even though they've been in CA for decades).

I thought you were agreeing with Space Ace's comments. It sounds like you were actually arguing the opposite side and I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I dislike knee-jerk reactionary anything, the other side always has some valid arguments or reasons, it's better to figure out a way to effectively work with or against the other side, rather than grand stand in one's holy self righteousness.

astrid,

I'm just old and jaded beyond my years. I have no love for either side of the political aisle.

Canada has 1/10 the population of USA and arguably more natural resources. No wonder they can afford some social programs.

hmm, Canadian per capita GDP: $20,020, US: $29,340

But natural resources are like tax-free inheritance from Nature. They are not counted in the GDP until they are extracted, right?

A Gen-Y bar-hopping trust-funder is richer than a Gen-X startup legal professional, right?

skibum,

I'm already so pessimistic and jaded that I don't want kids, just try to beat that :-)

Peter P,

It depends on the size of the bar tabs and the student loans.

By this analogy, the Middleeast is like the Daniellynn, kinda rich but kinda screwed. (I take back whatever I may have said about that little girl being better off, the poor child is now left in the care of one of the few people less responsible than Anna Nicole Smith).

Prop 13 is a great law. As a homeowner you can easily predict next years property tax bill. Few other states allow for that. Good savers are being taxed out of their homes in other states.

Why do good savers deserve protection from the market? Life is unpredictable anyway.

Perhaps there should be some property tax hedging services. With them, a homeowner can be guaranteed a fixed future tax schedule for a "reasonable" fee.

I save almost half my pretax income but I rent. Does that make me a *bad* saver?

I save almost half my pretax income but I rent. Does that make me a *bad* saver?

It means you are a bad spender. :)

One thing though, saving is a little bit over-rated here. Yes, it is important but growing your money is a lot more important.

Why fight inflation when you can join it? :)

the other side always has some valid arguments or reasons

Randy may not agree.

Peter P,

Part of the "saving" will go to pay off my student loans. The other part is just trying to live on less (now that I've gotten over my kitchenware and cookbook buying frenzy).

And a lot of the savings will be gone after this summer. We're planning to either go to Alaska or Scandinavia this August.

"the other side always has some valid arguments or reasons

Randy may not agree. "

2 + 2 could equal 5 in an alternate dimension.

. We’re planning to either go to Alaska or Scandinavia this August.

I have never been to Alaska. And Scandinavia is a beautiful place.

But I believe your money is better spent in Alaska.

2 + 2 could equal 5 in an alternate dimension.

It is called New Math, an important concept in the New Paradigm.

If you won’t even bother to think about the other side of the story, you’re already in the wrong.

I think you have pretty much captured the essence of what is wrong with modern conservatism in a nutshell here.

I have really had to bite my tounge to stay out of the Iraq War debate, but really, why do you waste your time? That debate is over and the good guys won, belatedly. Only 28% left of the American public think Bush is doing a good job in Iraq. Similar amounts believe in UFO's, Astrology and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Some kool-aide drinkers will never change their mind.

Alaska would be a much bigger trip, I would probably need to use 3 weeks of vacation and 1-2 week of unpaid time off, if I plan to go to Alaska.

(drive from DC through the northern plains, take the ferry up the inside passage, see Denali and Wrangell St. Elias or Katmai, drive back through the Canadian Rockies.)

New thread: New Thread

Jimbo,

I usually stay away from the Iraq issue too, but I can't stand when the suffering of Iraqis and daily deaths of young Americans are written off as if it is nothing.

I'm close to some people who are in danger of being sent there and know of friends of friends who are there right now, the idea that they may be maimed and killed for some bozo's macho posturing is just unbearable.

Alaska would be a much bigger trip, I would probably need to use 3 weeks of vacation and 1-2 week of unpaid time off, if I plan to go to Alaska.

astrid,
As far as a closer, cheaper trip to get out into the backwoods goes, have you thought of touring the Canadian maritimes and heading up to Newfoundland?

(This IS travel advice)...

Alaska would be a much bigger trip, I would probably need to use 3 weeks of vacation and 1-2 week of unpaid time off, if I plan to go to Alaska.

Factoring in time, looks like a cruise from Vancouver + round-trip air will still be cheaper. The trip can be completed in one week.

The saving of unpaid time off alone is enough to pay for the trip.

I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Don't you??

Canada is beautiful. Perhaps it will be my dream retirement spot.

Yeah, flying both ways would be cheaper, but neither my boyfriend nor I have seen the Northern Plains or the Canadian Rockies, so we would like to cover that on a long road trip. Since my boyfriend probably won't be working yet (I hope he'll take some summer classes and take the patent agent exam), this is probably the cheapest time for us to travel collectively.

We would like to see the Maritime Provinces someday soon. We might take trip up there next spring. I hope he'll move to DC with me in the fall, so it'll be easier to take East Coast trips together.

The seafood would be superb, but Canada is rather cold. Even the warmest places are north of places like Buffalo and Duluth.

I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Don’t you??

Well, I guess the real answer is that I do *believe* in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I am not an athiest or even an agnostic. I believe in God, at least in something that maps pretty close to what the defintion of God is to most religious folks. I just have never found a religion I could stomach, because they all want to spend their time telling other people how to run their lives, which I find morally repugnant.

Buddhism is pretty close to my natural inclination, I guess, though I am far too passionate to make a good Buddhist. I suppose there is no reason one cannot be a Pastafarian and a Buddhist at the same time.

The seafood would be superb, but Canada is rather cold. Even the warmest places are north of places like Buffalo and Duluth.

Vancouver is warmer, even though it is "north" of Buffalo.

Astrid says
"I always wondered about those “flower sellers” who stand in the medians next to stop lights… "

Your suspicion is well founded. My girlfriend recognized someone she went to high school with selling flowers in the median. He was well known for illegal activity.

Jon,

Thanks for sharing your friend's experience. I'm fairly neutral on guns themselves, but I do think there should be a national gun registry and efforts to prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands. I don't think minors should handle anything beyond hunting guns, and then only under adult supervision.

Malcolm,

Ha! I always wondered why the county does not pass an ordinance against loitering in road medians. Such an ordinance, strictly enforced, would decrease the number of squeegee guys, homeless dude who wander around during a red light, and "flower sellers" dramatically.

I guess they're too busy ticketing people going 20 above (even though everybody else is also going at least 15 above).

You know, I’m not a gun nut. I don’t even own a gun. But if everybody in Columbine had been packing heat, that siege would have lasted 10 seconds.

Heh, that reminds me of how sales of hand guns soared immediately after September 11th in Midwest/Southern states.

Because there's no better way to protect your family in Bumbleville, TN from al qaeda like a Smith and Wesson.

Actually, I take it back.

A better "that reminds me of" would be... that reminds of the Long Island Rail Road massacre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Ferguson

This comes to my mind because when it happened, I specifically remembered this:

Gun rights advocates frequently cite the Ferguson attack on the commuter train as an example of the danger of disarming the population, arguing that Ferguson was able to shoot as many victims as he did because no other person on the train was able to return fire.

Ah yes - the gun rights advocates in Texas ranted and raved about this. How if only god hating liberal anti-freedom NYers carried guns none of this would've happened.

Because... you know... a shoot out on in a packed train is exactly what would reduce casualties.