patrick.net

OO,

Actually, I can't really say a whole lot from personal experience, as I was a pup at the time and not in the market (recent college grad). However, I can recall reading a CEPR paper (Dean Baker) that estimated L.A. County prices dipped about 20% in nominal terms, and maybe 35% in real terms during the mid-90s. Don't have the link, but maybe you can still find it on their site.

I distinctly remember the SGV was not immune, however. My mom passed away in '95, and I recall the family could not sell her South Pasadena condo because it had lost so much value from when she bought it (1991), it wiped out her equity and then some. And that was before $0-down, interest-only & neg-am loans.

GC,

Well, at least he's not a Chinese grad student from Shanghai, as initially reported.

The Mainland Chinese upper middle class people I know obsess over high end AV equipment the way American hausfraus obsess over granite countertops.

if Mr-X got 1997 price + inflation

El HARM-O, exactly what I offered and so far it's accepted. We'll see though. I put a pen on the 10-year Ventura graph on Zillow and offered that. plus closing costs.

Huh?

Huh?

Huh?

If you want to insult me or my family/friends, please be a little more clear about it, so my hopelessly petite bourgeoisie brain can receive the insult in the proper spirit.

GC Says:

> High end stereo equipment is an obsession of people
> of a certain (economic and cultural) background.
> Whenever you see expensive Hi-Fi, you can immediately
> tell something about the owner.

I have not noticed any pattern in the economic or cultural background of audiophiles (other than they are all men). I’m sure that more people at a Symphony Patrons Dinner (or even a Symphonix dinner) have high end audio than the general public, but I know a lot of poor uneducated people (including some tenants) that have impressive home (and car) sound systems…

P.S. I have a Sony stereo that I bought for

Honestly, I want to know what kind of parents he has after reading about this killer Cho. His parents are clearly at fault, to say the least, they are negligent. Their son was so obviously, seriously disturbed, they should have sent him to a mental institute.

GC,

It's forgiven. I thought you were doubting the upper middle class status of my Chinese connections or making some veiled comment about their arriviste status...the latter is true enough.

I don't think very highly of their equipment or musical taste (Chinese pop music and pirated Celine Dion/Yanni is my idea of hell), and most of the equipment seems to collect dust (I have an uncle who has a US$10K set but never use it because he think it uses too much electricity). My little Klipsch iFi is good enough for me.

I think Randy is going to buy soon because of QOL considerations.

I would be very happy to buy soon. But chances are growing that we may be moving back to the Peninsula eventually. So during the interim, which may take a while, we're in a must rent situation anyway. Even if we end up $0 even for having rented after all this ends, we'll be ahead by not having any hindrances to moving or buying when time comes to bid adieu to Marin.

The Mainland Chinese upper middle class people I know obsess over high end AV equipment the way American hausfraus obsess over granite countertops.

well that's all just to do with the evils of communism, just ask SP. the connection is just palpable...

> High end stereo equipment is an obsession of people
> of a certain (economic and cultural) background.

I worked in a hi-end shop ...Cupertino mid 80s
we had mainly single engineers, white who were true
analog fans. They hated CD players... loved their LPs
Sometimes we had women in the shop... "Does it come in
different colors"...

We sold lots of American products..still out there.
CounterPoint Threshold, Vandersteen SOTA TT
Stax Theils Spica Apagee Infinity Martin Logan
Oh the list goes on...

DS,

Ugh, yes. Certainly Communism as it was and is practiced in China. The 1960s broke our idealism and severed us from our cultured past. The 1980s and 1990s introduced crass materialism. The Chinese were always a somewhat callous race, but the Cultural Revolution destroyed our sense of social responsibility and morality. Reacquiring these sensibilities will take much more time.

I would say we had few Asian in our shop around 10%.
Many were around 35-40...

astrid Says:
The 1960s broke our idealism and severed us from our cultured past. The 1980s and 1990s introduced crass materialism.

hmm, that seems to follow the crass materialism of the West of the 80s and 90s!

Headset Says:
"Savers now get the chance to be evil.
I’m going to lowball big time, and of course be turned down.
Then when the house is still unsold months later, I will get a call seeing if I’m still interested.
Then I knock another 20% off the price and do the “evil dance”
It will be the revenge of the “too stupid to take advantage of leverage” crowd. "

OO addressed the main response I would have which is that it won't be any easier to buy in the future, just that there will be more deals. Money is going to tighten up. There will be plenty of it, but you will need a real downpayment, so start planning for it.

Next thing and I have said this before. To aimlessly lowball is stupid, even if you are successful how would you know if you really got a deal. I really must assert that you will do better when you understand what makes a house worth something, understand the fundamentals, and then negotiate with confidence. You can play the lowball game, or you can just sit back and wait. I'd rather sit back and not look interested until prices are REAL bargains.

I also intentionally compared the Chinese AV preference to the American granite countertop preference. It's 90%+ about perceived status, not too much about practicality or true appreciation for its beauty.

I have a medium-end Panasonic stereo (integrated, of course), but at least it has 5.1 surround sound built in. Wait, that's because I was too cheap to get a separate theatre unit...

My brother has bought all Panasonic gear just so that the remotes interoperate! Or maybe it was just coincidence...

GC Says:
April 17th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
"Is it true that every bespectacled asian man with a pair of bewildered eyes and a sullen face is a suspect now? "

I don't knwo if you are Asian but I'm a white guy, and I can tell you that this incident won't reflect on Asians. I figured it's about time for an Asian to go postal, they never cause any trouble.

Malc,
Inventory will increase new and used. Im betting on great choices with
no 'multiple bids' heard from sellers.

Space Ace Says:

> High end stereo equipment is an obsession of people
> of a certain (economic and cultural) background.

I worked in a hi-end shop …Cupertino mid 80s
we had mainly single engineers, white who were true
analog fans. They hated CD players… loved their LPs
Sometimes we had women in the shop… “Does it come in
different colors”…

We sold lots of American products..still out there.
CounterPoint Threshold, Vandersteen SOTA TT
Stax Theils Spica Apagee Infinity Martin Logan
Oh the list goes on…
_____

Space Ace, good memories!

I remember those names. Vandersteens were the sh-t. How about Paradigm, Mirage, B&O, Klipsch, Norman Labs, Carver was doing some speakers, also.

I created anti-vibration products: one during the early nineties, that was featured in the New Products section of the now defunct Stereo Review Magazine, and one a few years ago featured in Sound and Vision Magazine.

I picked up a nice, used SAE A502 200 wpc amp and an Adcom GFP 565 preamp for about $65.00 FOR BOTH. Great sound.

I just snagged some Klispch KG4's, circa late '80s for $180 a pair. I use them to play drums along to because they're so efficient and crank pretty loud!

There are few true high end shops out there, sorround sound was around for some time.
but true high end will provide better imaging of sound. The mass marketing of gear
is sad. You can try the Audible Difference in Palo Alto or Century Stereo in San Jose...
Last time i been there was about 3 years ago. We had far more HE shops back in the 80s.

Malcolm,

Hmm, a little too ignored if you ask me. A Chinese grad student went postal a couple years ago and offed a couple of his professors. Never heard a peep about it in the mainstream media.

Michael Holliday, yes i too recall those ... good pick my man. SAE/Adcom for $65
Oh man ... thats sweet...

Jon, OO

It's to be expected in a group like this that there will be a strong resistance to anyone "defecting", no matter how much sense it might make for their personal situation. The very choice of the word "capitulation" tells me more about the speaker's biases than the object of that term. I would hope that each and every person here would ultimately make a decision to buy or not to buy entirely independent of any cheering or cajoling from Patrick.net'ers.

OO, the trouble with using other people as measuring sticks -- especially people you don't actually know personally and intimately -- is you know very little about what is driving their personal utility. As far as we know, FAB is single, wealthy, and very self confident and secure. His utility will be different from Surfer -X' is from DinORs is from mine. Maybe you think you're most like FAB, so that works for you. But how will you know if his situation changes? Maybe he won't tell us if he gets married or decides to buy a home in Monaco so he can walk to the Grand Prix and elects to never buy a primary residence here. In the long run, FAB has his decisions to live with, you yours and me mine. Just go a bit lighter on "capitulation" talk. It assumes that everyone else has the same needs and wants as you.

astrid,

Who was the famous Chinese poet who was purged during the CR and then rehabilitated just before his death? I can't put the name together.....any idea?

His son is a noted artist in China and recently built a tribute to his father....

I'm having a brain cramp...

Best thing for brushing cats - a pair of rubber gloves and a little bit of water to wet them...
Don rubber gloves
Stroke cat
Watch the unholy amount of fur collect on them.
Rinse and repeat.

My last cat was, I suspect, largely composed of compacted cat hair.

Being an Exotic Shorthair (half Persian, half Domestic Shorthair), she got the fluffiiness gene from her Persian ancestors.
Despite never weighing more than 7 pounds, one brushing session could yield as much as half a paper grocery bag of fur.
Sadly, she went to to great hunting ground in the sky last november, at the ripe age of 18. If I'd had my wits about me, I should have carded and spun her fur - and made about 15 sweaters out of it.

RE: Becky Troutt and insulting lowballs - don't know if any of you caught the "lowball offers are increasingly common" thread over on Ben's blog, but one poster - Kevin - has it down to a fine art.
I'll quote it in full, 'cos its a scream:

Comment by Kevin
2007-04-16 13:05:49
In the Baltimore Housing Bubble, sellers are having a hard time understanding that their houses are not worth as much as they are trying to sell them for. What I like to do to fuel the soon coming onslaught of decline is to go to open houses and offer 50% of their asking prices. I know this seems cruel and unusually, but when the seller and their agents jaws drop, I simply point to the price on their open house flier and I drop my jaw too. Then I point to their hanging 60 inch plasma TV and I say, “My price also includes you throwing in that TV.” This is point that I usually get thrown out.

-Kevin

Doug H,

GC would probably be a much better person to ask. I don't keep up with modern China very much, it's all filtered through my parents (there's apparently a huge American Idol like spectacle to select the cast of the next Dream of the Red Mansion). I generally prefer pre-1949 Chinese writing, so I'm drawing a blank too.

speedingpullet,

"If I’d had my wits about me, I should have carded and spun her fur - and made about 15 sweaters out of it."

Hehe, that's my first thought when I read the description of your cat.

"Today, I'm wearing cat!"

justme - i dropped out back in late 80s and went on with my career. I did walk with a NAD + Infinity + Dual TT.... at cost... but you can get great deals today on Ebay.

Hey Space:

Did you ever go to that used stereo place off of Saratoga Blvd. near Los Gatos/Saratoga?

I used to check out the old tube amps & solid state stuff they'd get in. I can't remember the name of the place, though.

Also, there was a good place near Chili's in Mountain View, but I can't remember the name. It was pretty close to Stanford, etc. The Audible Difference had those big ass Infinity $50K speakers in the early nineties.

Remember the Conrad Johnson amps?

Anyway...cool sh-t. I didn't make much money off my little products.

Space:

I think it was called Hi-Fi Cents or Hi-Fi Sence or something like that...

just me, i think the democrats dont want to be the We Tax Party of the 80s.
going into the Pres election year.

Micheal - I will have to check it out.. is it still open?
There is a place called the Analog Room ... did not go there...
http://www.theanalogroom.com/
There is also a nice shop in SF off VanNess and Geary or Post
Good stuff, walked by about 6 months ago.

I actually never understood why there aren't more below-market price side-deals. Wouldn't it be advantageous to the buyer (less property taxes) and potentially the seller (capture part of the tax difference for themselves, avoid capital gains)?

I can see the barrier being this wouldn't work for buyers without a lot of cash. But cash rich buyers could afford to say buy a $1.0m home for $750K officially (maybe little down), then pay the seller $250K somehow as a side deal.

I know it's probably illegal. Probably very illegal. But from what I've seen, just about everything in real-estate is illegal anyway, from the NAR all the way down to local agents.

Michael,
there is a book store on Castro and Ellis in MT View,,, at the back of the store
they sell some great LPs... Nice stuff... Also try out Ameba Records SF Height Asbury...
Ton of LP

SimonBart -- Freaking aye ... thats what I want to hear. Good deal my man.

Space:

I'm in Phoenix now, so I'm not within shooting range of those stores.

I did make the switch from LPs to CDs and haven't looked back.

I'm not THAT hi-fi'd out, but I do understand with a high-end turntable, records still sound the best.

As far as Hi-Fi Cents, I'm not sure if they're around anymore. That was more than ten years ago. I've been in Phoenix for eight.

Lucky you , How do you like Phoenix?

Simon, I agree that was a great deal. Sadly since 1998 everyone in BA thinks overbidding is normal. All the past homeowners always low balled their offers and they were accepted. I dont recall ever hearing about other bidders. It was pretty much first come first serve.