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Evil Buyers Display Extreme Cruelty to Distressed Sellers


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2007 Apr 17, 5:43am   34,270 views  547 comments

by HARM   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

buyer eyeing seller

Sadistic, Greedy Buyers Toying with Sellers Like Cats with Prey*
Copyright © 2007 UnReality Times®. All Rights Reserved.
by David Lereah, Leslie Appleton-Young and John Karevoll

As the alleged real estate bear market enters its second year of hitting bottom, some buyers out there are clearly enjoying this one-time market aberration --perhaps a little too much. Is deriving sadistic glee from other peoples' suffering a nice thing to do? The Germans have a word for this: schadenfreude (and we all know what cruelty the Germans are capable of!).

According to Donald Parisi, president of the Realtor Association of the Fox Valley (IL), buyer cruelty is reaching grotesque proportions:

"Parisi said he believes ‘doom and gloom’ media coverage has hurt the market. 'We’ve seen some very ridiculous offers,' Parisi said. 'People shouldn’t be desperate … The problem is some buyers are out there just to take advantage of the marketplace.'"

This view is further clarified by Jim Fox, manager of Realty One in Canton, Ohio:

“As unrealistic, said Fox, are some would-be buyers; they expect sellers to practically give their homes away. ‘Some people, … they want us to help them steal a home,’ Fox said.”

Even more to the point than Mr. Parisi, Florida Realtorâ„¢ Becky Troutt gets right to the heart of the matter:

"I think some of the buyers are out for blood! ...There is a difference from 'getting a deal' and 'trying to get something for nothing'! Just because the market is slow right now and homes take longer to sell.....doesn't mean that sellers are going to give their homes away and it doesn't give you the right to go for the jugular vein! How insulted would you be if you were that seller and someone asked you to come down off your price $90,000? Do you think you would say...ok sure no problem. I'm not spinning my heels in mud with an unrealistic buyer who only wants to try and rip a seller off!"

A note to home buyers: If you only want to pay $200,000 for a home......don't look at homes that are $90,000 more than you want to spend or can afford just because it's a slow market, and you think you can get a seller down that much.....because....IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!!!"

Now, that's telling 'em like it is, Becky!

While the unbridled greed and glee exhibited by these sadistic buyers (and the American Dreamâ„¢-hating press) are stomach-turning awful, they are not the primary causes of this upside-down market. The real culprit for this most unnatural and unhealthy market condition, is well understood in the industry:

"What appears to be driving the increase in foreclosures is that home values are not rising, DataQuick analyst Andrew LePage said. 'Take away home-price appreciation, or ratchet it down or even make prices negative, and all of those forms of (economic) distress start to result in increased foreclosure activity,' LePage said."

Clearly what's needed here is massive government intervention to protect homeowners and rekindle the normal 20%/year appreciation. This might take the form of a distressed homeowner mortgage buy-down, or federal underwriting for all the kindhearted subprime lenders who generously enabled low-income Americans participate in the American Dreamâ„¢ (often mischaracterized by Gloom'n'Doomers as a "bailout").

To proactively tackle this looming crisis, the NAR and CAR have teamed up with the MBAA (Mortgage Bankers Association of America) to sponsor the Save the American Dreamâ„¢ Act of 2007. Says NAR Chief Economist, David Lereah, "We are urging people to sign our online petition, and write, call, email and beg their Senators and Congresspersons to support this badly needed piece of mercy legislation. Home ownership is as American as apple pie --only you (and Uncle Sam) have the power to save it! Please do your patriotic duty and support the SADA. God bless."

[*Note: while the offset quotes and links are real, this 'article' is a parody]

#housing

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54   OO   2007 Apr 17, 9:45am  

SFBB,

that is not Los Gatos Hills, that is Los Gatos Mountains, very different concept. Los Gatos Hills refers to the Shannon road, Kennedy road area, or the Monte Sereno foothills with multi-million dollar mansions, the creme de la creme.

Los Gatos Mountains = Santa Cruz Mountains, most of which is sitting right on TOP of the major fault line. Many of those houses in the LG Mountains were built without proper codes. LG mountains is where the people in the valley used to have their vacation cabins.

55   Peter P   2007 Apr 17, 9:45am  

I will use FAB as a yardstick for buying.

I am using my friend as a yardstick. She usually has good luck with big purchases. I need to borrow some luck from her. :)

56   sfbubblebuyer   2007 Apr 17, 9:46am  

My bad. I meant mountains. :D

Nothing like living on a fault line in a shack for 300k!

57   DinOR   2007 Apr 17, 9:48am  

edog,

I'm no huge fan of Zillow either. It shows the home I sold in DEC 2003 currently valued at $899,990 (kidding). They're so grossly inaccurate I can't imagine anyone getting bent out of shape about it? Besides who are appraise-whores to bitch! Oh they were a bunch of altar boys during this whole thing.

58   OO   2007 Apr 17, 9:49am  

Getting a collaborator isn't that difficult, have your parents do it. Sign an agreement beforehand so that there are no tax implications, and then have parents from the wife's side collaborate (if your wife has changed her last name, that is).

59   DaBoss   2007 Apr 17, 9:50am  

"LG mountains is where the people in the valley used to have their vacation cabins. "

"Nothing like living on a fault line in a shack for 300k!"

Yes... LG ...Santa Cruz Mts back in the day listed for around $125K or so. Do it yourself Septic tank and propane! Dont forget the forest fires! Did i mention propane tanks!

60   DaBoss   2007 Apr 17, 9:53am  

" I just take the 10 year graph off of Zillow and fit it with a line and thats what it “should” be now."

Did the same after the recession and plotted the S&P bottom I got into the market spot on, never had a single regret catching the bottom. This is a Peter Lynch theory at play. Im doing the same with home puchase.

61   OO   2007 Apr 17, 9:57am  

Space Ace,

where do you target in BA since you've been here so long? Anywhere in the South Bay with a high intrinsic value?

62   surfer-x   2007 Apr 17, 9:57am  

DinOR, zillow used to be a bit out of line in the Ventura area, but I have found lately that most of the recent sales have been within 5k of the "zestimate". Going thru the realtor dance is fascinating, what a bunch of shills, they are just information hiders, nothing more, nothing less. An open MLS and more accurate zillow and they are out of business.

"lets fee them". and so it was law

63   astrid   2007 Apr 17, 10:00am  

Austingal,

Congrats!

64   astrid   2007 Apr 17, 10:01am  

Tuesday afternoon cat and mouse blogging...I like where this is going.

65   Peter P   2007 Apr 17, 10:03am  

Tuesday afternoon cat and mouse blogging…I like where this is going.

Remember, Friday is the cat-blogging day.

66   Peter P   2007 Apr 17, 10:06am  

What is the best way to remove loose fur from a cat?

67   surfer-x   2007 Apr 17, 10:11am  

What is the best way to remove loose fur from a cat?

A cat brush. tinyurl.com/34y9ut

It's Georgie approved. Just be sure to give the wrist a slight flick when exiting the cat. It gets the underfur. Don't be shy, press down hard, they like it.

68   HeadSet   2007 Apr 17, 10:12am  

"if no-down is your requirement, then you’d better get your foot in before the door is slammed."

Yipe! It sounds like you just gave Reators their next pitch:

"Better buy now, even as prices are falling. Why? Because if you delay, loan tightening will shut you out forever!"

69   Peter P   2007 Apr 17, 10:12am  

A cat brush.

Cool. We have several brushes but one cat is very picky.

70   Peter P   2007 Apr 17, 10:14am  

SP, certain types of luck tend to stick around, unless a person throws them away.

71   Peter P   2007 Apr 17, 10:14am  

Because if you delay, loan tightening will shut you out forever!

LOL!

72   HeadSet   2007 Apr 17, 10:19am  

British "Estate Agents" have been making due with 1% commissions for some time now. Full service also, including ads and driving around buyers.

73   DaBoss   2007 Apr 17, 10:20am  

SP Says:
I have a colleague who was at Sun from ‘95 to ‘98, then at Yahoo from ‘98 to ‘04 and now at Google since ‘04, just pre-IPO. I am keeping a very close eye on where she goes next, so I can follow - and am hoping her luck holds for one more move.

I would skip your friend and follow where this guys is going... "Midas Man"
He is miles ahead of everone. The rest of the crue arnt bad either

http://www.sequoiacap.com/people/michael-moritz/

74   surfer-x   2007 Apr 17, 10:21am  

We have several brushes but one cat is very picky.

Georgie is a very crabby tabby, she looks just like the cat in the picture above. Once the brush comes out, she auto-purrs. I did not know that auto-purr* was possible.

*auto-purr: spontaneous purring without actual contact from human slave.

75   Peter P   2007 Apr 17, 10:22am  

RE: British “Estate Agents”

Even those with double-oh designations?

76   OO   2007 Apr 17, 10:22am  

Headset,

if you have gone through the early 90s when housing bottomed, you would not have said with such sarcasm, because unless you have a big down payment, you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the bottom pricing at all. Banks require at least 20% dp, sometimes 25%, stock options were NOT counted as a part of dp, although in 88, 89 they were.

So I repeat again, if you don't think you can come up with at least 20% dp when the market hits the bottom, you'd better buy before that happens. The market hit the bottom primarily because cheap money was not available. When money became expensive, you had to have money to borrow.

77   FormerAptBroker   2007 Apr 17, 10:23am  

Peter P Says:

> What is the best way to remove loose
> fur from a cat?

Try a black fleece coat or a black cashmere blazer.

Every time I wear anything black to a girl’s apartment with a cat I sure that I leave with all the cats loose fur…

78   astrid   2007 Apr 17, 10:25am  

Surfer-X,

Man, you make cat brushing sound soooooo dirty.

79   Peter P   2007 Apr 17, 10:26am  

The market hit the bottom primarily because cheap money was not available. When money became expensive, you had to have money to borrow.

I think the market goes towards the bottom because cheap money becomes increasingly unavailable. Market stays in the bottom because people anticipate more price drops. Right before the market emerges from the bottom, liquidity tends to be improving.

I could be wrong.

80   HARM   2007 Apr 17, 10:26am  

Even those with double-oh designations?

Are you referring to 007 or "OO"(OwnerOccupier)?

81   surfer-x   2007 Apr 17, 10:27am  

@astrid, Georgie also likes it when you very firmly spank right by the tail hinge (tail attachment point). I have tested this in the field on a one "Mr. Paws" and so far it's thumbs up, note: Mr. Paws is polydactyl and as such has thumbs and represents the next step in cat evolution.

82   Peter P   2007 Apr 17, 10:30am  

Are you referring to 007 or “OO”(OwnerOccupier)?

I was under the impression that OO was 007.

83   DaBoss   2007 Apr 17, 10:31am  

OO-

My target is is Milpitas/North San Jose.

Why? Easy commute to South San Jose, Fremont, Mt View, Santa Clara, east bay or where ever my next gig may be. Milpitas is not great but thats OK! Lots of Pho resturants.

I dont care about schools. Havent seen LT any hot day/night spots since there aint none in SB. All of that is up in the City or on the Beach on weekends anyway.

Money is not the problem for me its the RE fraud that so widespread and thick in the valley. So much of the fraud is covered in "Inflation Talk by Realtors" that it makes no sense for people who been here like me.

84   Peter P   2007 Apr 17, 10:32am  

Every time I wear anything black to a girl’s apartment with a cat I sure that I leave with all the cats loose fur…

The word "all" is highly inaccurate.

You will attract A TON of cat hair. But any cat owner can tell you that loose fur is inexhaustible.

85   surfer-x   2007 Apr 17, 10:35am  

But any cat owner can tell you that loose fur is inexhaustible.

During the season change, winter to summer, Georgie sheds approximately 3.8 KFE's* worth of fur a day.

*Kitten fur equivelent

86   DaBoss   2007 Apr 17, 10:36am  

"stock options were NOT counted as a part of dp"

Your SO right, they cant because they are unregistered with the SEC and NASD. How realtors and mortgage brokers were doing that in 1999 was unbelievable.. It was just beyond illegal regarding SEC and corporate by laws.

87   Peter P   2007 Apr 17, 10:40am  

Maybe getting into Sun from school was a bit of luck, but after that it was primarily the quality of work that led to referrals and offers.

Timing is very important. I do not like to discount the importance of hard work but decisions are quite often more impactful than actions.

88   HARM   2007 Apr 17, 10:40am  

OO said:

4- You will not see any meaningful increase in the foreclosure inventory in desirable locations until you see some really bad jobs numbers.

(in 'Ace Ventura' voice): Oh reaaallly.....

L A Times, April 17, 2007:
Foreclosure pace nears decade high - The state's increase could soon pull down home prices and even bring a recession, some economists say.

89   HARM   2007 Apr 17, 10:45am  

I believe we could be on the verge of the first housing-led recession in this nation's history. As in, it won't be collapse of Soviet Union/defense industries, or a stock market crash that precedes it.

Housing has basically been close to the "sole provider" for the economy (at least in CA, AZ & FL anyways) for several years now, and the MEW-ATM machine is getting ready to shut down for a good long time:

Got cash?

90   DaBoss   2007 Apr 17, 10:46am  

You will not see any meaningful increase in the foreclosure inventory in desirable locations until you see some really bad jobs numbers.

M&A is on the rise. More M&A than new IPOs. In addition we are still seeing tech price declines for consumer and commercial products.
Beginning in Jan 2007 we capital spending which drives the valley is down,
corporations are spending less on capital. As they said back in the day,
when a Computer Makes sneazes, all his vendors catches a cold.
Chip, Semi Equipment, hardware and software makers start showing losess and employees brace for RIFFS... Not doom and gloom but season adjustment underway in SouthBay.

91   Peter P   2007 Apr 17, 10:50am  

I am going to sound very naive but being able to buy a house for a reasonable price should be of secondary concern.

We must come up with ways to capitalize on the bubble bust. This should be our primary mission. Not only we need to survive the change, we must thrive on it.

92   HARM   2007 Apr 17, 10:52am  

Of all the regulars here you thought least likely to capitulate too early, would Surfer-X be high on that list? He was at the top of mine.

93   HARM   2007 Apr 17, 10:59am  

If you think that you can save up $60K in the next 3-5 years, then you probably should hold off. I don’t know about Ventura, but this is just the beginning of the housing bust. It will go much deeper than people expect because when a bubble of this scale deflates, the market will tend to overreact the other way. It doesn’t sound like you and Mrs. X are the quality-of-life buffs who demand a nice home so that she can do some interior deco.

However, the upside of getting in right now is, in the worst scenario, you put nothing down, and can always walk under anti-deficiency protection, while saving some tax in the mean time.

Mr-X,

OO offers some good avice here, and I would add the following:

Low cost basis (price) & strict lending standards generally benefits the borrower far more than high cost basis & easy money.

Why?:
1. You can always refinance your interest rate, but never the principal.
2. Price largely determines your nondeductible property tax & insurance, and of course lower = better.
3. Much less competition --especially from mouth-breathing Howmuchamonth 'tards and Serin clones.

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