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Buyer pool drying up


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2007 May 8, 1:52am   12,984 views  157 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (60)   💰tip   ignore  

dried up lake

If lending standards had remained steady, then we would have a pipeline of people who spent the past 5 to 10 years saving for a down payment. Instead, they already got that house, and the savings don't exist. So, if we go back to decent lending standards (i.e., 20% down), we have a LONG wait before we have significant numbers of new buyers, on top of all of the other reasons you cite.

Bob L.

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136   Claire   2007 May 8, 10:47am  

Also, I am looking where these properties are located and the ones in the not so good areas are now asking prices that used to be asked for the better areas.

137   sfbubblebuyer   2007 May 8, 10:48am  

Claire,

I almost never get MV rentals popping up on my craigslist search thanks to the "dogs" clause I always have clicked. They may have boosted the asking prices if they are seasoned landlords for the 'school season' figuring people moving to MV to get a decent school system need to be in in the next few months, and will drop the rates if they don't fill them by August.

138   Claire   2007 May 8, 10:51am  

Mind you I am looking in a very narrow range, so it could be overall they are not much different, but for my search specifications prices seem to be spiking (although a couple more of sub-$3000 properties are now listed).

139   Claire   2007 May 8, 10:56am  

SFBubbleBuyer - maybe, I have also noticed a couple of them listed several times, and they are starting to allow small pets! I don't allow the "no pets" to worry me. If they are desperate they will waive that. In fact our landlord did and I don't think he has regretted it as we have been here 4 and half years now! I find it amusing now that some properties in Los Altos (better school district) are asking for less than Mountain View ones. Which is kind of whacky!

140   Paul189   2007 May 8, 11:13am  

In Chicago, I see plentiful rentals and of course, thousands of condos for sale.

141   astrid   2007 May 8, 11:49am  

Wow, sounds like we're all friends in agreement (of disagreement).

GC,

Sadly, no. When I was young, my extended family suffered a mass Hep A infection from uncooked razor clam...we haven't served it since. I heard it's quite delicious though.

142   Peter P   2007 May 8, 12:12pm  

But the ones I was talking about are elongated with thinner and crisp shells. You will need to thoroughly cook them.

Yep, I had those in Mountain View. Thin with crisp shells.

I even saw razor clam sashimi, but I felt like having them cooked that day.

143   azrob   2007 May 8, 1:19pm  

GC:

If you didn't mean it as an insult, then I apololgize for insulting you back. I am a lingust. I speak spanish and protuguese, some understanding of chinese and thai. I was married for 5 years and my ex is venezuelan, so my trips to south america were as a couple, and we lived in mexico for a year. I don't go to asia for prostitutes, anyone who can learn a conversational amount of chinese or thai, and takes the time to understand the culture will find better things to do with their time then whore around.

144   Different Sean   2007 May 8, 1:28pm  

Interestingly, rental vacancy rates here are supposed to be at a low, being less than 2% -- something like 1.7%. I'm not sure of the reason for that. It may even be a fake figure cooked up by the REI. But because supply is meant to be tight, the REI umbrella body is encouraging all RE agents to push up rents by 5-10%. This could well be an economic response to suckers people paying too much for investment properties over the last 5 years, and since capital growth manifestly isn't there, they have to crank rents to compensate, and have to fabricate some reasons to do it.

145   SP   2007 May 8, 4:28pm  

What is a provocateur?

A $40-word that means 'jackass'

SP

146   Philistine   2007 May 8, 5:25pm  

Rents here in NYC continue to climb as the metro are continues to have much higher demand than supply. Also seems over the last few years that more and more hipsters with kids are choosing to stay and raise their brats in the city instead of moving out to suburbia as was once traditional. Apparently a '50s Cape Cod-style in Long Island is a fate worse than death.

I'm getting so tired of the stroller brigade that is taking over my neighborhood sidewalks that I'm able to sympathize with the elderly Italians in the neighborhood that complain about us upstarts moving in. They literally give The Evil Eye to anyone walking around under the age of 40 who wears skinny jeans/tight T-shirts/converse/holding a latte.

Hey, neighborhoods change, but now it's like rents are going up just because these breeders want to have their cake and eat it, too. They act like NYC is such a logical place for The Children. They, of course, don't send their precious cargo to the local PS107; instead, private schools are de rigeur, if not de facto. Where all the money comes from, I have no friggin' idea, and I see lots of the mom-hipsters roaming around during the day, obviously without jobs, yet shelling out top dollar rents to live here.

Outrageous.

147   Ozman   2007 May 8, 5:28pm  

What happened to the quality of this blog ?
I thought we were here to discuss markets, economics and bubble theory :)

I'm getting tired of this food and sex talk.

148   Different Sean   2007 May 8, 5:50pm  

Does anyone know where the web article or analysis showing GDP with the housing bubble effect removed is? There have been some links to it from here, but it's hard to search for...

149   astrid   2007 May 8, 9:54pm  

Ah, you mean hai guazi (sea melon seed). Yes, those are delicious and great beer food.

150   astrid   2007 May 8, 10:56pm  

Food and sex has everything to do with markets, economics, and the bubble phenomena.

151   DinOR   2007 May 8, 11:44pm  

"mom-hipsters roaming around during the day"

"Where all the money comes from, I have no friggin' idea"

philistine, I too once struggled with the "sustainability" of this family/economic model. Then I was getting my oil changed at Oil Can Henry's and my complimentary copy of USA Today made it all too clear how that works. They featured an affluent community in NJ where taxes are 18-20k + per year. The for sale signs sprout up a couple of weeks prior ro the last child's HS graduation! No, seriously. Mom-hipsters aren't waiting a second to down-size! They move a town or two over (pay 1/4 the tax) and use the profit from the sale of their former home to finance college. (Up until now, it's worked)

While they did feature NJ in this article (5 May '07) they said it was not only growing trend locally and hardly confined to NJ.

152   Peter P   2007 May 9, 12:15am  

Food and sex has everything to do with markets, economics, and the bubble phenomena.

Exactly.

Besides, the bubble theory has been talked to death already. That is getting boring too.

153   astrid   2007 May 9, 1:22am  

We could talk about stranglets AKA black swan particles.

Run away!!!

154   DinOR   2007 May 9, 1:45am  

In ways I understand how Ozman (or anyone for that matter) feels when they come here for a much needed fix of bubblenomics. However, when raising stone idols you reach a point where it is more upright than horizontal!

While not perfectly perpendicular, our monument to the credit/housing bubble is nearing it's completion. From here, it would take more effort to restore it to it's crude original state than to check for plumb for all eternity. It's only natural that talk among the natives turns to food.

155   Steveoh   2007 May 9, 2:04am  

C'mon Ozman,

There must be some 'favourite' mouth watering fair from down under that you want to tell us about.

How about those fruit and creme filled crepes available at the Freemantle markets? Or maybe a banger on a bun with a black and tan at the pub?

Do you put a slice of beet on your burgers, or is that only offered to tourists?

156   DinOR   2007 May 9, 2:30am  

Karima,

I can't speak for others but of all the issues that I face the Reverse Mortgage is the one I'm the least sure of. If one had not adequately planned for retirement and had no living heirs there's little to debate.

However that doesn't describe the vast majority. Most of us (or our folks) have done "some" preparation for retirement and have children or someone they care about. Since the President of the Mortgage Brokers Association seems heel bent on making sure there isn't one dime of "equity" left untapped, it looks like we (as potential heirs) are fighting the flow. I fear as they become even more popular (as folks live longer) and continue to use it fund lifestyle there won't be anything left for long term care and final expenses.

The examples "I've" seen exhibit seniors with all kinds of credit card debt. I understand much of that is due to the cost of medications but judging by the steady flow of elder piloted motorhomes I suspect there may be more to it. Additionally as RE prices continue to cool will lenders be as eager to extend credit? Will terms be as generous? Again, more questions than answers.

157   apostasy   2007 May 9, 5:05am  

I dunno, "...go back to decent lending standards..." seems a mighty big stretch to me.

It would take a complete breakdown of investor confidence in MBS and CDO markets to dry up demand for these mortgage products. Even after I/O and no-doc markets go back to their original sizes, we still have down payment sizes ranging from 1% to 19% that the orginators can flog to death like they have I/O and no-docs, before we reach sane lending standards again. How long that will take can be a very long time indeed.

The back story of these securitized packages of mortgages is that sophisticated computer models ensure the risk is all managed away. Reminds me of LTCM. It worked until it didn't; and when it didn't, it didn't in a real big hurry. Pretty much right up to the blow up, LTCM investors kept holding out hope that it would straighten out.

The reaction in the MBS and CDO markets to collapsing subprime risk models wasn't, "oh crap, maybe the models for no-doc (Alt-A), 2% down, 5% down, etc. tranches aren't so good either". It was a "flight to quality" retrenchment from NINJA tranches into less risky but still unconventional products that are still not really suited for mainstream consumers but are marketed as mass-consumption financing vehicles.

I can see this stretching out for many years, even more than a decade, before capitulation and the rush for the exits, and these products become financial toxic waste. Any bail out would only devalue them further, too.

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