patrick.net

Finance Directors with public experience that are decent managers will be able to find work without much trouble for years to come. My wife regularly hires people in their 30s and 40s. Not sure about 50s, I'll ask her. She won't hire anyone into management in their 20s, regardless how often the Financial Times boomer columnists keep insisting that Gen X are a lost generation of managers and our only hope for salving the future is to fast track the boomer's kids into management.

There are *very few* people at Google earning a $375K base. Go search their jobs and interview for one (if if just for the experience of interviewing) if you want to know how much they really pay. They're known to pay at the low end of the market.

skibum said to 'wealthy woman':
Your screen name is the blog equivalent of desperate bling-wearing: couture clothing with all the labels on the outside

When I was in Hongkong a few months ago, I saw jackets that had at least six designer labels (or lookalikes) printed all over them - all on the same jacket.

To the credit of HK'ers, I never saw anyone actually wearing them, so I assume these were for the tourist crowd.

SP

Wealthy Woman said:
Would I be as generous if he was a trouble maker in HS, went to a not so good university, and came out making $30-40K/yr at any random job? Most definitely not.

Would you be as generous if he was a realtwhore?

SP

Eburded, I'll narrow your age to 30s since you are already thinking about 40s. I'm 35, and already accept 40 easier than I accepted 30. I'm enjoying life more and more so it doesn't bother me.

For operations I have an understanding of cost accounting. MLO. For general accounting work in companies we of course were on accrual basis, for real estate when I was doing the books for my mentor (10 years who just died last April :( he was cash basis. Just to be clear, I'm not a CPA, I just did everything internally for the small businesses I worked in. I am a CPIM through APICS. Invenotry and planning were my professional strengths.

Amsterdam Says:
May 14th, 2007 at 5:41 am
"I’m a dutch citizen and a student in university. I was wondering how Americans value a bba, mba and msc in finance or business administration? Here in Holland most value is given to msc.
You also wrote about analyst programs for investment bankers. In general what kind of degree do yo need to enter such a program?"

I just had one small input for this question since it is kind of funny. First, IMO and from others a bachelors degree is the new high school diploma. It is no longer the order winner, it is the qualifier just to talk to someone. Engineers at my old job made fun of our HR girl because her degree was a BBA from National University which is a private open business school. At a formal state school you get either a BA or BS denoting arts or science. My MBA is actually an MSBA because I had the BS in business already so it empahsizes greater business focus.

Randy, I've observed that as well. For boomers to insist that 20 year olds are taking their executive jobs has always made me laugh. People still look at me as being young (though they always admit, ahead of the pack), especially boomers who think an executive title is their birthright for the accomplishment of a long career doing........selling advertising or being a travel or real estate agent. They just can't get a clue that business is always tearing itself apart and reshaping, and that there is no longer (if there ever was) some straight line pay spectrum that is solely related to age. They just don't get it.

Randy H Says:
May 13th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
"Linkin to me if you want. Click my name, find my full name, and do a linkedin search."

Just looked at it again, not sure why you don't talk about your business degrees more as I think they are impressive. They are common now as others have said but that does not diminish the level of expertise one gets when they earn one or in your case....

"Getting an MBA was very smart, IMO. Anderson or somewhere else? I’m biased, but in your case it will serve you very well. You’ve got a lot of management building years ahead of you yet. "

Most tech guys seem to be very picky about where degrees come from. I'm not really sure why but then again I commoditize everything in my point of view. I am more than satisfied with San Diego State. It consistently ranks top 25 in the country. Our cases were directly from the Harvard archives, and my advisor who runs the program tries to emulate the finer programs. For example, the finer schools have interactions with VCs so he put that all together and even has his classes sit in on VC funding meetings by Domain Associates. They are big time, and have funded many startups most everyone here would know about. The guest speakers were what impressed me the most. The tuition seemed like chump change because I had such a good time.
I got the most I could out of it(remember in my case it was a self improvement goal not just a resume filler) so I volunteered for everything from business plan competitions to luncheons where I sat at business lunches and met interesting people. You can have a lot of fun as I did, one luncheon I actually sat with Steve Francis who ran for mayor in San Diego.

My business plan is used as a case study for the extended campus in Taiwan where I present it and do Q and A with the students over Skype. Skype allowed my advisor (who flew back and forth) to have one of his American students (I was the first one) video conference to their class. It was so successful that he has expanded it and takes his favorite cases and does it each semester. I even attended and spoke at the last Taiwanese class's graduation when they flew over here to receive their degrees.

Too much about me, geez. I do type quickly so when I get going I lose track of time, and then look up and see that I have literally published my memoir without realizing it. Sorry for the level of detail.

"She won’t hire anyone into management in their 20s, regardless how often the Financial Times boomer columnists keep insisting that Gen X are a lost generation of managers and our only hope for salving the future is to fast track the boomer’s kids into management."

Yeesh. Maybe I should be glad that I'm a very very late Gen-Xer.

Overall, I think the Gen-Xers still have it relatively easy compared to the kids right after them. I doubt I could get into my alma mater today and full tuition&fees+room&board was around $30K/yr (and about half was covered by need based grant in my case) instead of $40K+.

If I was three or four years older, I might have even been able to participate in the real estate run up or play the dot.com lottery.

I graduated college with $10K in loans. Compared to kids in college or high school today, I count myself very lucky.

If I was three or four years older, I might have even been able to participate in the real estate run up or play the dot.com lottery.

I was slightly late to the dot.com game but I *could have* participated in the real estate run up around 2001-2002.

Nevertheless, I blame no one. It is still too early to tell if having bought 5 years ago would have been a better thing for me.

Malcolm

The detail is welcomed. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one "out there". It sounds as if you maximized your MBA experience which is the most important thing. I knew a lot of Columbia MBAs in the NYC EMBA program who were just there to tick the box in the IB career journey. I'm sure that works well for them in the short run, but after they burn out on the Street they'd better hope their rolodex carries them into the corp world because I wouldn't touch one of those guys/gals with a 10 meter pole.

Peter, and Harm are software writers? I’ve never really asked what everyone does for a living. Randy, I was reading your posts from awhile ago, you are in consulting?

I would prefer not to publish my complete memoirs to the world, but I've been mostly on the admin side of IT for the last 10 years, despite my liberal arts education. I have never been a "real" coder. What I do now involves some light coding (Vb script, etc.), but mostly MSI building and technical writing.

Me, I've got a BS in Comp Sci and a Masters in Biophysics, and work as a software engineer, and will hopefully transition into biotech in the next few years. (Early 30's)

Of course, once we hit our first product milestone, I’ll probably be trying to convince HARM to bail on Pasadena and migrate north too.

Be careful with the bait you dangle --I might just bite. ;-)

I’ve been an entrepreneur for the past 13 years. You’re never really your own boss. You just get to keep most of the money. My bosses have been my clients, my customers and my investors. Not trying to be sanctimonious, but there’s a difference between a lifestyle company, self-employed/sole proprietor and an investment backed entrepreneur. I have a board to answer to.

100% agree. I've never started a business from scratch (though would like to someday, if I can find the right niche). However, I have a good friend from college that went the MBA route and started a coffee chain in, of all places, Poland in the 1990s, mostly with investor capital. The place took off like gangbusters and is basically Poland's "Starbucks" now. Unfortunately, my friend did not legally protect his interests as well as he should have and sold off too much of his ownership stake to keep the enterprise alive during its early, lean years. As a result, he was forced out 2 years ago and is now enbroiled in a bitter legal battle with the current scumbag/backstabbing managers. All Boomers (of course). Funny, how no matter where you go in the world, Boomers all act the same. I do not think his prospects are very good, despite a solid legal basis for his claim, as he is basically a foreigner fighting powerful and corrupt interests in a Polish court.

Starting your own business can be a wonderfully liberating thing, but it generally takes years of very long hours and high stress. It is also as likely to bankrupt you as make you rich. I admire anyone who takes that risk and tries to the best of his ability, regardless of ultimate outcome.

RE: my personal bio, I didn't think anyone would care about the details of my training background, as it's not tech, business, or RE related. Went to med school at a small west coast school, went east to Boston to train at a Harvard teaching hospital (7 long, cold years...), stayed on faculty there briefly, came back to aforementioned small west coast school to work.

came back to aforementioned small west coast school to work

Small as a Junior?

Small as a Junior?

he he - no comment.

lol

Well, I realized early on that I was in good company here. Thanks for rubbing it in Harm, about being long winded LOL.

skibum, a medical PHD is nothing to sneeze at.

skibum,

Your skills are quite relevant to some of us, Peter P and me in particular. I think we may be in need of your medical expertise quite soon.

@Malcolm,

Didn't mean it that way, buddy, just would prefer not to reveal too much to the world. Anybody see the job Nigel Swaby did on Robert Cote? Unreal how vicious and personal some people can get over nonsense.

Harm, I do like the description of the boomer managers in the corporate world. They literally take any fun out of it which is why I prefer the smaller lifestyle type companies.

I was kidding, but really I've found if I'm respectful to people they tend not to attack me. What is that link to? I didn't get what it is about. Can you sum it up for me?

I found in my "corportae job" that the boomers there resented every little bit of progress I made. My boss saw real talent in me but the maxed out boomers just had no interest in any personal advancement. They just operate in a defensive mode day in and day out because they sense any change in a company is a threat to their livelihood. They really do look at a corporation as their replacement parent. There are some who really stayed true to their ideology but most of them IMO have reverted to being children always worrying about what will happen to them. You guys have no idea how refreshing it is to meet people who seem to have made similar observations.

Your skills are quite relevant to some of us, Peter P and me in particular. I think we may be in need of your medical expertise quite soon.

Feel free to email off-line if you have any questions - I'd be happy to discuss.

@Malcolm,

Odd, so the link doesn't work for you? Here is the URL: http://robertcotesux.blogspot.com/

Basically, a crude personal attack site created by Nigel Swaby, one of Casey Serin's old pals. Apparently, Mr Swaby does not like what Mr. Cote had to say about himself and his better-known partner in crime. Very juvenile to say the least.

However, it isn’t accurate to say they are “known to pay at the low end”.

Especially if food is part of the total compensation package.

Didn’t mean it that way, buddy, just would prefer not to reveal too much to the world. Anybody see the job Nigel Swaby did on Robert Cote? Unreal how vicious and personal some people can get over nonsense.

HARM,
Man, all that site shows is how petty and desperate Nigel Swaby is. I got that sense about him back when he used to post here occasionally. Very defensive and obtuse with his arguments. Classic behavior of a RE bull realizing that the party's over (perhaps the ANGER phase of the Kubler-Ross grief cycle). But honestly, bringing in attacks on family is just childish, desperate, and is borderline (if not frank) harrassment.

What a great representative of the REIC Swaby is!

The link worked. I wasn't understanding the point of view. I guess the site is about the guy, I thought it was him posting for advice, I'll read it more closely, thanks.

The link worked. I wasn’t understanding the point of view. I guess the site is about the guy, I thought it was him posting for advice, I’ll read it more closely, thanks.

That site is just plain silly.

Actually, my left arm could be seen in one of the pictures.

I'm really sorry but I don't know who this guy is so I'm not really seeing the humor, just that evidently people don't seem to think very highly of him.

Actually, my left arm could be seen in one of the pictures.

Maybe Swaby will start a blog called "PeterP'sleftarmsux.blogspot.com"

I’m really sorry but I don’t know who this guy is so I’m not really seeing the humor, just that evidently people don’t seem to think very highly of him.

Au contraire. I'd say most people who have "blogged" with Cote see him as incredibly intelligent, well-reasoned, but coming from an odd perspective (pro exurban sprawl). Sort of like the Antonin Scalia of housing bubble blogs.

I see. I don't really hop around. This is the only message board that I read. I used to post on AOL sometimes, but never got much out of it.

Well, the business guys have fallacious thinking in recruiting. I've seen guys boast of a 'track record' which everyone eats up but for some reason they can never replicate it. The whole "I helped take a company public." Real translation....I worked at a company that went public.

"My team got the product to market on time."
Translation....I was lucky to have competent engineers.

My favorite from Accredited Home Lenders. "We are pursuing other avenues for holding our own loans in house."
Translation....We are up to our eyeballs in loans being returned to us so we are desperate for cash.

“Tech guys” tend to assess a situation based on verifiable datapoints, so there is a tendency to overweight performance numbers based on historical or statistical data.

I think I am one of the very few "intuitive" tech guys.