patrick.net

Don’t make the mistake of hubris I think you are making here. That only you and a very few others ‘know’ how others ‘understand’ morality.

But I really don't. Otherwise I will be doing something else.

However, I believe a morally-agnostic society will produce more good. This is a paradoxical but true.

But Surfer-X bought, so I guess I’m in good company.

Congrats SQT!

Thanks Peter.

Boo-Yah!

Good for you SQT!

(Oh and uh.. I was kinda forced to buy too) but I dragged my heels every step of the way! At a buck thirty five a square welcome to 2002!

I say PARTY!

DinOr

I was kind of like that for us too. We're hitting that point where we need the tax break.

The buck thirty-five thing takes away a lot of the pain. I've been scrutinizing all the houses out there right now and virtually all the sales are priced way above ours. But the banks are dumping properties en masse right now out here, so I think we're going to see drastic price reductions in the near future. Heck, we're doing our share to bring the comps down in my new neighborhood.

Peter P Says:
November 9th, 2007 at 11:28 am
"Humans are not animals.
Most of us even understand morality, though a few know how others understand morality."

My dogs have some understanding of right from wrong, and even understand the concept of stealing. I believe dogs are moral creatures.

Heck, we’re doing our share to bring the comps down in my new neighborhood.

You mean bringing reality back to the neighborhood? ;)

My dogs have some understanding of right from wrong, and even understand the concept of stealing. I believe dogs are moral creatures.

Too bad, I only have cats. :)

You mean bringing reality back to the neighborhood?

I probably won't say that to my new neighbors-- at least just yet. I don't want to be facing the angry mob if I can help it.

Cats can be evil geniuses one instance and adorable fur balls the next.

"hitting that point where we need the tax break"

That (among other things) was one of the bars we had too. The first year I was "independent" I made more from un-employment. So it wasn't even a concern. Bubble-sitting: Year 2, start-up costs MORE than off-set! Year 3, "at least we're not part of the problem". Year 4, "we're going to take it in the shorts".

I think we paid right around $162 per but OR is "special" not like SAC.

I probably won’t say that to my new neighbors– at least just yet. I don’t want to be facing the angry mob if I can help it.

Yeah, just say you got it at a once-in-a-life-time low price and that you fully expect to flip it for 300% more next year. When they are not looking, you may roll your eyes.

I think we paid right around $162 per but OR is “special” not like SAC.

He he he. We're actually in a suburb of Sacto that is pretty nice. I looked up the stats and the median income is around $80k-- not too shabby. The neighbors are going to have fits when they figure out how much we paid per sqft.

Yeah, just say you got it at a once-in-a-life-time low price and that you fully expect to flip it for 300% more next year. When they are not looking, you may roll your eyes.

Now that sounds like a plan....

That's the spirit Peter!

Not only will you defuse a potentially awkward situation you will become the rallying point for renewed interest in koi ponds and other various lawn adornments!

"when they figure out"

See, that's the tough part. With Z anyone can check that out.

Make sure you put extra emphasis on the "300%" part.

See, that’s the tough part. With Z anyone can check that out.

I know. I hope they're all going to be in serious denial mode and choose not to look.

Fat chance, I know....

USAYesterday,

Sacramento, CA: 9 NOV 07

Could "bottom feeders" become the new "Real Financial Heros"?

Before you get all bent out of shape about your neighbor paying HALF of what your... dumb@ss did, consider recent buyer SQT! With mortgage payments a fraction of yours they will be able to purchase everything from swing sets to wood chippers down at Home Despot (TM) (and get this!) they're paying CASH! For those of you that haven't seen any for awhile it's green and has dead presidents on it with numbers that correlate to different amounts....

haha so Surfer-X bought in Sacto?

I can hardly wait to hear his euphamism for the place, San Jose became San Hosebag, I'm assuming Sacto will be changed into something even more imaginative than the common "Sack'o'tomatoes".

No no, Surfer didn't buy in Sacto. I just meant that he is among the buying crowd.

I shudder to think what Sacto's euphemism could end up being though...

DinOr

I'm in the too-scared-to-buy-anthing-I-don't-need crowd right now. Home Despot will have to struggle along without me for the time being.

RE: Home Despot

Great name!

Anything you don't... need?! Some "Financial Hero" you turned out to be!

Look, you've got Free Equity! 90K of it! Don't you know the "New Rules for Finance"! Now I have this friend.... great guy. He can get you rock bottom rates...

Peter, why is it that some of the nicest people love cats? What is it with you guys? Do you just have an abundance of love in your life that you want to share it with a creature who thinks its better than you?

I saw a bumper sticker once I may have shared it before but I love it.

"I wish I could be just half the person my dog thinks I am"

“I wish I could be just half the person my dog thinks I am”

I wish I could be just half the person my cat thinks she is.

LOL

good one

Cats and dogs are very different creatures and they attract very different personalities.

My wife is a dog person.

One of our cats is dog-like though.

@Peter P

...your morality is the competitive advantage of others.

My experience has been the opposite, perhaps your experience is industry and market dependent. Moral business ethics when well-marketed (which generally means not touting it in your marketing activities) in my experience acts as a shorthand for trust in many business settings. It is far harder in the beginning, but it leads to compounding results once it gains traction.

The reason it seems to work is because many business dealings are complex enough without having to worry about whether or not someone will screw you over. If you build and maintain an honest reputation as a straight dealer, and that reputation spreads, you will find that it short circuits a lot of activity that distrustful parties usually engage in to build trust. To my atonishment, trust also builds profits; once you build a trust network, a lot of sales gets booked largely on a trust component, and the margins are much higher because trust is intrinsically an opposing force against commoditization, a leading factor in margin erosion in my industry.

I eventually discovered that my clients were fully aware they were paying me a large premium; they simply decided that even after accounting for the premium my offerings still made financial sense to purchase because they knew that once they made the purchasing decision, they just didn't have to worry about it. The first time I was told how pleased a client was because they didn't have to worry about my offerings after purchasing, I didn't realize how signficant it was; after the fifth time a client said that I decided to look into it. Convenience has always been a key sales benefit, but I when I started my business it hadn't occurred to me that trust is a form of convenience which translates into greater profits. Especially when the convenience is linked to reputation (of my clients) and lower overall costs (due to rework for botched jobs), it is very easy to sell when the trust is pre-established.

There is a difference between moral business ethics and acting as a spineless floor mat. For example, unreasonably difficult clients will find we will deliberately bend over backwards and lose money on the account to make them happy...once. They will then find we are unaccountably busy and our rates much, much higher the next time they call us, unless we find out the management structure has been completely replaced.

We had a client who twisted a verbal promise to demo a new product into a full-blown proof of concept and evaluation commitment. We lost loads of money on that, I was no end pissed, but the product vendor's sales force never forgot us falling on our sword for them with nary a complaint (internally in the vendor the client was blacklisted as well), and now we have all the work we can handle as gratitude. Much later we found out the manager responsible for stabbing us in the back did this to other vendors; it was his way of making himself look good to the director by getting far more work out of vendors than his peers, by deliberately miscommunicating and throwing a titanic, red-faced fit over it. He shamelessly did call us back, and because we were so "busy" at the time, we were happy to introduce them to our nearest competitor.

Internally, our CRM system has that manager marked down; we will never deal with him, ever again, no matter how big the potential deal, no matter who the company is. Finally, for an extra sweet ending, for all the money I lost on that deal, I have made back to date 9 times as much in follow-on sales from the vendor's sales force who knew us from that incident, up from zero referral sales preceding the incident (even though we knew that sales force beforehand). When I started out, I shared your exact same concerns over the moral business being its' competitors' competitive advantage. This is only one of many such stories I have that convinced me that as long as there is effective and long-term accountability, the moral business actually has the edge over the long-haul.

I'm so happy for SQT. Especially on a Friday, what a great way to go into the weekend. This is what this blog is all about. Research, discussion, research, execution, entry point and Pay Off!

Not to mention her taxes should be about 2/3rds of what her neighbor pays (or soon will be). It's great to know this hasn't all just been polite (and sometimes not so polite) chatter. There ARE rewards!

Hell, $135 a s/f!? That's huge! The daughter and son-in-law are supposed to stop by this evening and I was thinking... Coors? Oh HELL NO! Now I'm thinking... Corona's at least! I'm open to suggestions, and don't just limit it to beer. I want your very best Bubble Bustin' Booze suggestions!

apostasy Says:
@Peter P

My experience has been the opposite, perhaps your experience is industry and market dependent.

I agree with you apostasy. But Peter P is our resident philosopher. He likes to pose questions in form of cryptic / discomforting / challenging / witty etc on liners.

When he philosophizes, it just means he is hungry and is craving sushi.

Congrats SQT. And not just because you got a great deal.

Thank you apostasy for making concrete my ramplings for the need for business and social morality. It actually reminds me on another industry that heavily depends on this: housing contractors.

The guys who underbid on prupose to win the bid, then carefully show how everything is slightly out of the initial contract only to have massive run-ups will get business from any given client once. Once. Thus they have to spend all of their time underbidding to keep wining new clients since the have no return clients.

However, the bidder that comes with a solid reputation for being fair and reasonable can even charge a healthy premium as the down-side risk is known to not exist.

In strict terms: Contractor A bid $1k knowing he will run the job up to $2k. Contractor 2 bids $1.5k but is known to never go over his bid. Most would choose bidder 2 unless you just love the acramony of fighting the first guy to hold to his $1k bid.

Coors? Oh HELL NO! Now I’m thinking… Corona’s at least! I’m open to suggestions, and don’t just limit it to beer. I want your very best Bubble Bustin’ Booze suggestions!

San Miguel's. I can't believe you ignored that fine product!

When he philosophizes, it just means he is hungry and is craving sushi.

I am hungry. :(

Peter P Says:
which forex broker

I now go through a full-service management firm that helps me with the rest of my asset management. Their fees are a little high if you just use a specific service, but all my trades get thrown in for "free" into their basic management fee. It is a lazy solution, so may not be the best deal around.

In the past, I used an agent who used Dukascopy via Deutsche Bank's DBFX.

(Not FX advice)

SQT Says:
we’re buying this place at $135sqft.

Congrats. Just for scientific reasons, when was the last time in the 1997-2005 timeframe was it at $135/s.f.? Curious to know how far Sacto has unwound.

Yen 110.

I think Yen will move drastically up very soon. Time to short US indices further.

I think Yen will move drastically up very soon. Time to short US indices further.

If Yen goes up, all those carry trades will begin to unwind. Watch out for positions in GBP and AUD!

Not investment advice!

San Miguel! Now why didn't "I" think of that!

SP,

Me too. I took a "swag" and said... 2002? Anyway you slice it, she got a pretty good deal.

Anyway you slice it, she got a pretty good deal.

Anyone who can buy a long-term home with comfortable financing has a good deal.