patrick.net

“I understand that the investors in mortgage-backed bonds will sue, but what about a class action suit representing folks like myself who will now have to wait longer to buy a place?”

NO N - 0 NO !

I wish the masses had NEVER EVER heard of the very limited type of litigation called 'class action' lawsuits.

They think it is a possible to remedy to what ever they do not like.

A whole lot less TV and mass media would be a very good thing.

Goverments manipulate markets all the time. What in the world do you think trade agreements are? Or allowing businesses to operate as corporations with limited liability for shreholders? Or patents?

And do read the information released publicly before blathering on. This 'freeze' is being done by the lenders. It is not being done by the goveernment at any level (state or federal.) There is no 'law' being passed. The US gov't maybe suggsting the idea, it may have gotten the parties together to workit out but the government is NOT doing it.

(And even if it did, you have no claim at all under any possible legal theory.)

"RaiderJeff04 Says:

December 7th, 2007 at 5:32 am
“Potential buyers face higher prices for a house than they would if the market were just allowed to work. This is a direct harm to millions of people, especially young families with limited income.

Is it illegal for the government to manipulate markets to benefit one class over another?”

Case and Controvery (standing)

At least in federal courts, and possibly state courts, there must be a case and controversy, (for fed courts, see Art. III). Meaning that the plaintiff has suffered an injury in fact, caused by the government, that is capable of judicial resolution. Further, the case must be RIPE, (the plaintiff has been harmed or there is an immediate impact of harm). This is part of the limitations for going forward with a case in federal court, and most likely limitation for state courts as well.

Since the Buyer is only a POTENTIAL buyer, there really hasn’t been any direct harm, and the case is not ripe for review. In other words, the plaintiff only has a potential interest, not an existing interest in which the court can render a judicial resolution (remedy).

I haven’t looked at Constitutional law in a while, but I think this would be the first hurdle to overcome when looking at the facts above.

RaiderJeff04 -

DO NOT EVEN GO THERE.

You haven't the slightest idea of what you are talking about.

Law and legal theories are NOT a DIY project that you can figure out by stuff on the internet.

You are so far out in the ozone on this one, you need a parachute.

"but the government is NOT doing it" (bail-out/freeze)

Let's see here....

OFHEO

FRE

FNM

FOMC

FRB

Treasury Dept.

Congress

Candidates

Nope. No government involvement HERE!

I liked AnnS's post. It seemed correct to me.

Ouch.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/10/business/worldbusiness/10cnd-bank.html?ref=business

10 billion here, 10 billion there and soon we are talking real money.

McRussom - The US has always been obsessed with the assassination of John F. Kennedy, and this has led to a spate of books over the years. There have probably been hundreds written. I've read maybe 10, since most are obscure. However, part of "conspiracy research" is the minute picking-apart of every detail of the perpetrator's life. In this case, Lee Harvey Oswald. I began to find "Who killed JFK?" books more interesting for their rare glimpse of life in the 1950s and 1960s for a low-wage slob with aspirations (even if evil ones) than for any titillation that may come from contemplating the killing of the particular rich guy who happened to be President. Lee Oswald did not make much money at anything he did, and yet what he did make allowed him to live in a decent place, generally a 2-bedroom apartment and not one of those Bay Area closets either, plus save money (for various plots and plans lol) on the side. He was able to support Marina and her baby. Going back further, his mother was always able to own the house she lived in, and gradually moved up in house value over the years. These people were not working 60-hour weeks, they were lucky to get a full 40 hours in fact. Lee had the time, energy, and money to take a night typing class. A friend of his had the time and energy and could afford to give him free driving lessons. It was a much more relaxed, self-sufficient, I've-got-some-savings-on-the-side life compared to modern American wage-slavery. Lee's menial jobs were due to his preference to not work too hard rather than a lack of good jobs. He seemed to enjoy the jobs he had, since they provided him what he needed, plus time to think (and plot lol). Investigators in the Warren Commission and other books comment on Lee's frugality, but many people were frugal at that time, that's how you lived. Waste not want not and all that. It's an amazing glimpse at a life very different from our stressed-out 60-hour a week plus 10 a week commuting gilded work-camp life we have now.

One factor was, guys like Lee did not pay any income tax. Then, anyone making less than $4k didn't pay it, now, anyone making less than $4k doesn't pay it. But the brackets have crept due to the fact that a dollar is worth about 1/10th what it was in the 50s, so now you have dishwashers and table bussers and so on paying 1/4 or more of their gross income in taxes.

Lee was not the smartest guy, but if the poor bastard were alive today, perhaps released after a LONG time in isolation, he'd be appalled at how people live. He'd find his theories about Capitalism hanging itself vindicated, and he'd also have a huge problem with the system of fascism (or corporatism, the uniting of corporations and gov't) we live under now.

Funny, how the hippies, blacks, nationalists, and other cool movements got bought out thru the years.
If Lee were alive today, he will probably be a welfare smooching, trailer living hobo blessing the government for every day of slumber.
If King was here today, he will probably be chilling in the hood, selling crack, and smooching on the welfare of a couple of mamas and occasionally visit jail.
Hitler would have been a guy on the net, probably a few pounds heavier, the closest ever to a war or depression watching Saving Private Rayan, blabing on and on at patrick.net and such about how screwed up the little people are and when oh when will someone do something other than a petition online that noone will care for. Ohh and since Jews are not as scary, he would be like, 'The corporations control everything... ooowwww, be afraid, be very afraid!'
Funny stuff I tell you.

Marty

Autism is skyrocketing, no one knows why. Mercury is in the air from coal fire. Katrina victims are still displaced. The US is very low in the court of world opinion. Our budget shortfalls and our trade deficits are staggering. Our fiat currency is only worth anything now due to our military strength and the existing forex[foreign] reserves here.,

buddy, selective ranting of facts is aways counter productive:

Umm, about your cookoo points:
- Autism is skyrocketing, no one knows why. - Emm, society is degrading/REgrading with size and class separation
- Mercury is in the air from coal fire. - sure, but think of the 2 bil chinese you owe 1 trillion dollars (real, not inflated pos) of crap to. they have boom-boom sticks too you know.
- The US is very low in the court of world opinion - but it is high on home grown love and all that. As far as I recall, two times Bush was chosen. I'm not going to get into how, those people being wrong, will likely protect your ass against the 2 Billion Chinese you Owe 1 Trillion of Real Money to.
- Our budget shortfalls and our trade deficits are staggering. - go to NY and LA redneck, we make the moolah, and we spend it. I wear PRADA == I AM RICH. bugetiwhatgety? You think the guy I visited last week in the masion on the hills cared? Sometimes, you can get so rich so fast you can't comprehend it.
- Our fiat currency is only worth anything now due to our military strength and the existing forex reserves here - Soup, soup and more soup. Manchurian, this is the next step!

See, your master protects you, let him do so, then hang him! It is like, if the Chinese tell you if you let them control the situation then no bail out! Would you let them?

p.s. About China and the 2 Billion Pissed-Off Chinese. This is just an euphorisam. Like Pamela Anderson, read on both and you will understand, or send me an email.

Marty

Wow Micrusson, I was in a pretty good mood until I read your comment. I actually agree with most of your rant but it is a very diverse economy and there are many people still doing very well. If you try to empathize with all the bad stuff you will depress yourself. You can do your part by taking control of your life. If you hate pollution live green. If you don't like China, refuse to buy Chinese products, it is hard I know but I have managed to drastically cut down on Chinese goods. Simplifying your life is the biggest relief. None of this crap is new, the situation may seem unique but it really isn't.