patrick.net

you need to update your stats. the neo-cons are now responsible for getting 4,000 Americans killed, 200,000 Iraqis killed, displacing 4.5M Iraqis (read: refugees), and creating the perfect training ground for Al-Qaeda. nice work. and maybe you should add an Iran page in case McCain is elected. thanks for providing a great site!

Good illustration of the Saudi educational system continuing to teach hate:

http://www.hudson.org/files/publications/CRF_SaudiReport_2006.pdf

Meh, as we learned from the gaggle of PatNet "independent conservative Amish anti-war thinkers" last year it's perfectly OK to be "provoked" into attacking some other country. At least Bush and Co had decency to level their "bioWEAPONSlabs" accusation BEFORE the attack and gave the accused a chance to allow inspections and not 2-3 months into the war.

The accusations against Iraq were 100% false and the administration knew it.

The accusations against Ukraine/US seem to be true.

https://celiafarber.substack.com/p/legacy-media-now-calls-us-destruction

Legacy Media Now Calls US Destruction of Iraq "..one of the greatest blunders in American military history," blames it for rise of Trump, and asks if US has "learned the lessons."
YES, we have and it is this: Not to believe a WORD from mass media/military industrial complex. Not one word. This is the only "lesson." The destruction of Iraq was called "Nation Building."

Patrick says

The accusations against Iraq were 100% false and the administration knew it.

The accusations against Ukraine/US seem to be true.

???
I'm not following or tracking the news these days. What's going on with the accusations?

RWSGFY says

At least Bush and Co had decency to level their "bioWEAPONSlabs" accusation BEFORE the attack and gave the accused a chance to allow inspections and not 2-3 months into the war.

They were under sanctions for a decade constantly under inspection, and constantly being accused of having a secret weapons lab program, not just 2-3 months. Iraq realized that no matter what they did, the US was going to go to war with them. Syria knows this, Afghanistan knows this, Libya knew this, Russia knows this.

You can't negotiate with terrorists and the US are the terrorists.

1337irr says

Patrick says

The accusations against Iraq were 100% false and the administration knew it.

The accusations against Ukraine/US seem to be true.

???
I'm not following or tracking the news these days. What's going on with the accusations?

There's something like 40 BSL-5 labs in Ukraine. Victoria Nuland said as much when she was before Congress expressing her concern that the Russians may take them over. Why are there BSL-5 labs in Ukraine? Why is the US involved with them?

Russia, claims, that they discovered this AFTER the war began, but I doubt that is true. The FSB isn't that incompetent. May have been one of the motivations for the war, but who knows? Who cares? This is a war between Russia and NATO/US - Ukraine will be demolished.

https://celiafarber.substack.com/p/war-and-the-money-masters-the-dirty

“During the lead up to the War on Iraq, I was working in DC and knew a woman who was married to a guy at the state department. Long before the vote in Congress, she told me that it was already decided and that the war was definitely happening. So, that vote was just for the sheep to make it look like we were still living under representative government. The truth is that America has been owned by the central bankers since 1913 and the Federal Reserve Act--the bankers run the govt and the rest is just an illusion. ...

“Here's ex-Secretary of Labor, Robert Reisch, under the Clinton Administration admitting the truth:

https://modernhistoryproject.org/mhp?Article=SecretCabal&C=8.0

“Robert Reich understands the current power structure of the U.S. because he was a Rhodes Scholar. He is a member of the CFR, and he was Secretary of Labor during the Clinton Administration. Robert Reich's January 7, 1999, article in USA Today states:

"The dirty little secret is that both houses of Congress have become irrelevant . . . in case you hadn't noticed, America's domestic policy is now being run by Alan Greenspan and the Federal Reserve Board. . . Congress is out of the loop. Every so often, some senators or house members politely ask Greenspan to visit and talk about the economy . . . Then he goes back down to the Fed and runs the country. . . . America's foreign policy is being run by the IMF (Int'l Monetary Fund) . . . and when the president decides to go to war, he no longer needs a declaration of war from Congress."

I do remember Iraq attacked and took over Kuwait. That was the reasoning for the overthrow of Sadam. They would not pull out.

casandra says

I do remember Iraq attacked and took over Kuwait. That was the reasoning for the overthrow of Sadam. They would not pull out.

Correct. Under Boosh senior. The US was legitimately pushing them back, as they were allies with the Kuwaitis, no matter what one may think of their regime. Gulf war 2 under Boosh junior though and the sanctions starving many (kids) for non-existent WMDs propaganda were crimes against humnanity, true war crimes, W is a war criminal.

casandra says

I do remember Iraq attacked and took over Kuwait. That was the reasoning for the overthrow of Sadam. They would not pull out.

The US gave them the go-ahead to go into Kuwait through April Glaspie, the then US ambassador.

Iraq had just finished an 8 year war with Iran, because the US wanted to retake Iran after being thrown out of Iran in 1979. It was the US that got Hussein to go to war with them, and it decimated their economy and left the country pretty damned broke. Kuwait was stealing oil from Iran as well through "sideways drilling" which Iraq repeatedly asked for the UN to intervene, and the US would say nothing about it/

Hussein basically asked Glaspie what would happen if he invaded Kuwait which Hussein regarded as "historically Iraq" anyhow, Glaspie told him that the US had no opinion on Arab relations, which he interpreted as "go ahead, we don't care".

Keep in mind Hussein was an ally of the United States at the time. So he did, and then the US had an excuse to remove Hussein from power or at least kick his ass. It was bizarre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Glaspie

Just do a search for "transcript". Glaspie disappeared shortly after that transcript became available.

If Glaspie just said "if you do this, it will be war with the United States", it wouldn't have happened.

richwicks says

If Glaspie just said "if you do this, it will be war with the United States", it wouldn't have happened.

Maybe, but that's no excuse for the invasion. Saddam could also simply have looked up the allied structures and treaties and figured out that Kuwait was a US partner/ally they would/should protect.

mell says

richwicks says

If Glaspie just said "if you do this, it will be war with the United States", it wouldn't have happened.

Maybe, but that's no excuse for the invasion.

As I already wrote, Kuwait was stealing oil from Iraq by literally drilling under Iraqi land. Iraq tried to settle it diplomatically, but Kuwait just ignored Iraq. Iraq appealed to the UN, but the UN would do nothing. The US goes to war to steal oil in other nations, that's what it's doing in Syria now. You complaining about that?

mell says

Saddam could also simply have looked up the allied structures and treaties and figured out that Kuwait was a US partner/ally they would/should protect.

Look, Glaspie goaded him into attacking Kuwait. What's on paper means fuck all. The US was giving Hussein chemical weapons during the 1980's to fight Iran, he used some of those on Kurds. That's entirely illegal according to treaty, but the US did it anyhow.

Treaties mean nothing, ask the indigenous Americans.

I'm not defending Iraq, I'm criticizing the US government for lying us into a war, and they did lie us into a war, even with Operation Desert Storm. Remember this?


original link

Remember that? All lies. She was the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador, and she was trained by Hill+Knowlton. There's no possibility that nobody in our intelligence agencies NOR congress didn't know who she was. It's a show, they weren't fooled by her, this was blatant obvious propaganda, and NOBODY in the intelligence agencies nor congress blew the whistle on her.

I'm fucking tired of my government deceiving the public and misinforming the public, lying to the public. Tired of it.

Is it bad that Iraq attacked Kuwait? Yeah, it is. It could have been stopped if, you know, the US acted as an honest mediator and settled it. They could have. If Kuwait wouldn't play ball: just bomb the pumps pulling oil out of Iraq's reservoirs. There, problem solved and we wouldn't have a bunch of soldiers coming home with Gulf War Syndrome, we wouldn't have had a second war with them. 1/2 million Iraqi children wouldn't have died under sanctions, 800,000 Iraqis wouldn't have died in the 2nd war, the US wouldn't have spent who knows how many trillions of dollars on the war.

The United States WANTED that war, but they needed an excuse. It's likely the US was the one that got Kuwait to steal oil, to aggravate Hussein. Who knows?