0
0

Government deaf to simple plea: less debt!


 invite response                
2008 Apr 21, 12:30am   39,837 views  307 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (59)   💰tip   ignore  

nono

Saver: I'd really like lower house prices instead of "affordability" programs that just tell me to get deeply into debt.

Government: How about the nice mortgage debt interest deduction? The more you borrow, the more you save! But if you have no debt, then no tax break. Sorry.

Saver: You're not listening. I don't want debt. I just want your debt-mongering programs to go away, so I won't have to bid against people committing financial suicide with debt. No saver can bid as much for a house as foolish borrowers can, borrowers who don't care about their future bankruptcy.

Government: Say, have you considered what Fannie Mae can do for you? You can get a slightly lower interest rate on your debt since we have taxpayers on the hook in case of your default.

Saver: I still don't want any debt.

Government: OK, we'll increase the Fannie Mae conforming limit, so you can get whopping jumbo loans in California, and we'll make Midwestern taxpayers cover it! Then you get hella deep into debt and the banks will be safe in case you default.

Saver: NO! I still don't want any debt.

Government: You're a tough nut to crack. OK, I'm going to hand you cash and say you borrowed it.

Saver: But I don't want to borrow money!

Government: Too late, I just added your "stimulus" payment to your part of the national debt. Ha! Gotcha.

#housing

« First        Comments 188 - 227 of 307       Last »     Search these comments

188   Brent   2008 Apr 22, 3:14pm  

But when I try to get out of debt people tell me it's a stupid thing to do...

If I'd only listened to Uncle Ric I could have enjoyed that magic 8% return in the market recently.

189   Brent   2008 Apr 22, 3:21pm  

Sorry, here's the link.

190   StuckInBA   2008 Apr 22, 3:29pm  

Ptiemann :

Thanks for a lot of clarifications. It is perfectly possible to disagree without turning nasty.

Eventually, housing will recover. So your blog will become relevant. There are advantages of owning and as long as you present logical arguments and not mindless drivel like a Realtor, it will even be a good advice.

I am not sure about the tone and the association though. The whole taunting attitude of Mr. Alpine might turn off a lot of people who prefer sound arguments. This "renters are losers", "see there are bidding wars" etc is SO 2003-4 ! I will be surprised if even a single blogger here takes such comments seriously now. It's just boring. Hardly adds any value to the discussion.

Good luck with the project.

191   OO   2008 Apr 22, 3:30pm  

NVR,

Compared to 2 years ago, USD index (weighted against a basket of currencies) has declined from 90 to 71.4, about 20% decline.

Dow advanced from 11300 to 12700, which is about 12% gain. So the stock market is in a slight decline if we measure it in Euro terms, but not that big of a decline, YET.

192   northernvirginiarenter   2008 Apr 22, 3:53pm  

Paul-

Thanks for that itulip video link. http://www.itulip.com/

Just finished watching, about 1 hour long fyi. A must watch in my opinion, good job explaining what Monsanto's master plan is. It will be an eye opener for many here.

I just don't understand US policy in some regards. So short sighted. It would seem our government *allows* itself to act as proxy to this large multinational to the detriment of the human race, including American citizens. Meanwhile, our national intelligence establishment is asleep at the wheel. They *think* their priority is supporting US business interests overseas without question.

I take issue with this point of view. Monsanto is a threat to our country, our citizens. Yet the intelligence community looks the other way. Are they not suppose to be protecting us? If a large multinational subverts the political process to such a degree, the state to such a degree, to its own interests, and if those interests are not aligned with those of the average US citizen, should not the intelligence community deem Monsanto a threat to the united states?

What is the United States interests relative to Monsanto?

The intelligence community should take these guys down, using all methods at their disposal.

193   OO   2008 Apr 22, 4:00pm  

Brent,

it is not wrong to carry a big debt today if you can lock down a 30-year rate of 5% denominated in USD.

Forget about the 10 reasons you posted. There's only one reason, this is the best way to take advantage of the falling dollar.

194   northernvirginiarenter   2008 Apr 22, 4:06pm  

OO,

Thanks, not as bad as I might have guessed. Still, if most foreign investors in US equities have come out flat or worse over 2 years thats not real solid risk reward.

Yet indeed.

195   northernvirginiarenter   2008 Apr 22, 4:13pm  

With food and energy inflation set to spiral out of control, would it make sense of the average Joe Smoe to take out a new credit card at teaser 0% rising to 15% and fill his basement with Costco non perishable foodstuffs as an inflation hedge? Say spend $10K on groceries now?

Micro USD hedge in food seems to make sense also.

If folks figure this out we could see some serious hoarding and buying, weimar republic style.

196   northernvirginiarenter   2008 Apr 22, 9:09pm  

Hot off the presses....

Mortgage applications PLUNGE last week.....


U.S. mortgage applications plunged last week, largely reflecting a drop in demand for home refinancing loans as interest rates surged, an industry group said Wednesday.

The Mortgage Bankers Association said its seasonally adjusted index of mortgage applications for the week ended April 18 fell 14.2 percent to 637.6.

The U.S. housing market is currently suffering one of the worst downturns in its history.

Last week's drop in demand may indicate what is in store for the hard-hit sector this spring, which traditionally is the peak of the home-buying season.

197   Randy H   2008 Apr 22, 11:11pm  

MarinaPrime was a she. From the best I recall she did a short stint as an investment banker; probably a junior analyst. She bailed out early and became a realtor. It seems she enjoyed the very tail of the boom, but was too late to really cash in. She also posted under other aliases.

There's a good chance that MP is actually one in the same of a much larger number of aliases than even that. Her writing style is eerily similar to that poster on Zillow who kept appearing claiming she was an Ivy educated, JD+MBA+CPA and only 28 and already a mother of 2. She'd also post under other supposedly highly credible personas, but always disappeared when bullshit was called. Just like MP. She also had that same "neener neener neener" annoying quality, which I only ever heard out of MarinaPrime and her aliases.

If she makes a mysterious return to Patrick then we'll know for sure. Maybe Patrick can unban her logons, if they ended up on the list. I'm nostalgic for that one Marina condo listing she kept posting over and over as evidence...

198   skibum   2008 Apr 23, 12:12am  

Ahh, the good old days where you couldn't spit on this blog without hitting a troll. Boy, I miss them.

For ptiemann, an indicator that your blog will have become relevant: when trolls post to your site claiming the housing crash is still going strong! (ie, your very own version of MP)

199   Brent   2008 Apr 23, 12:45am  

OO-

Good point, but how; MERKX, Gold, AUD? The only thing that doesn't involve some level of risk is eliminating the -3.5% guaranteed return on a mortgage, true? I suppose one could play the spread between treasuries and a mortgage and come out ahead, but at a few $100K it doesn't seem worth the hassle.

200   DennisN   2008 Apr 23, 12:52am  

Does anyone have a link to a good commercial real estate crash site? A friend in LA bought 5 expensive commercial properties at the end of 2006 in highly-leveraged fashion, and I'm wondering if he's got a bankruptcy in his near future.

201   Patrick   2008 Apr 23, 12:54am  

I didn't ban MarinaIsPrime, but I don't see her login in the userlist anymore. Maybe someone else with admin privs did.

> I don’t even know why Patrick still collects such links.

Even though there is a lot of very good news to choose from lately (called "bad news" by homedebtors) I think it's important to keep filtering out the NAR because they will keep destroying lives with their spin as long as they can.

202   HARM   2008 Apr 23, 2:28am  

northernvirginiarenter Says:

Monsanto may be the most *evil* company on the planet. It is shameful our country allows this to company to exist. Shameful.

The system is broken.

Could not agree more. What a ruthless gang of thugs. Oh, wait, they're ruthless thugs with lots of money and political influence. I guess that makes Monsanto execs "entrepeneurs" and "patriots" (cue the pro-corporate apologists).

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/monsanto200805?printable=true¤tPage=all

203   DennisN   2008 Apr 23, 3:00am  

Justice Thomas once was house-counsel for Monsanto, as detailed in his autobiography.

204   Peter P   2008 Apr 23, 3:13am  

Clinton is closing in on Obama.

Something tells me that Hillary still has a good chance. And this cannot possibly be wishful thinking!

205   EBGuy   2008 Apr 23, 3:18am  

Back in 2004 I once criticized Patrick for a biased selection of news articles (cherry picking) but realized then that this was the purpose of his page.

I was a bit critical of the recent thread, How Many Foreclosures in Palo Alto, 1 or 74? because I thought it improperly framed the "distressed property" data. Well, guess what, it was picked up by a local paper (see article Subprime Crisis Hits Berkeley, Exact Dimensions in Dispute). Unfortunately, stuff like this hurts the credibility of the blog.

Other sites, considered less authoritative, list different numbers. Patrick.net, a site that tracks the housing bubble, cites a report that 61 percent of Berkeley homes for sale—156 out of 255—are foreclosures, with the comparable figures for Oakland as high as 73 percent, compared to 59 percent in Los Angeles, and 57 percent in San Diego and 30 percent in San Francisco. Bargain.com claims 91 homes are in pre-foreclosure status, with 44 in foreclosure, while AOL’s real estate pages cite 131 foreclosures.

The numbers came as a surprise to two local real estate brokers, City Councilmember Laurie Capitelli of Red Oak and Gloria Polanski of Marvin Gardens.

“I’ve only heard of a handful, and most of those are in southwest Berkeley,” Polanski said.

“I haven’t heard of many,” said Capitelli.

206   HARM   2008 Apr 23, 3:20am  

@Peter P,

Yup, largely thanks to a certain campaign and spiritual "advisor" that cannot keep himself from making inflammatory anti-American comments (and Obama's decision not to distance himself further), I would say the Bitch is most definitely back.

207   OO   2008 Apr 23, 3:21am  

NVR,

the news about Costco running out of rice that you posted got into Chinese news all over the world as if we were already in famine. The Chinese over there are intentionally looking for negative coverage of our food situation, so this provides quite a boost.

Honestly I am not worried a bit about our food situation, particularly because I am sitting in California. If I were to choose anywhere to live in a worldwide food shortage situation, I could do a lot worse in most other countries.

I am actually looking into buying share at local CSA (community supported agriculture) because they use heirloom seeds and grow seasonal food locally. It is also a way for me to secure my local food source. I am wondering if anyone here has participated in such a program before and what the experience is like?

208   HARM   2008 Apr 23, 3:22am  

So.... can we still vote for Ron Paul as a write-in?

209   OO   2008 Apr 23, 3:26am  

OK, in 5 years I will volunteer myself to be a troll at pt's site.

210   HARM   2008 Apr 23, 3:33am  

@OO,

Why wait?

211   EBGuy   2008 Apr 23, 3:38am  

I am actually looking into buying share at local CSA (community supported agriculture) because they use heirloom seeds and grow seasonal food locally. It is also a way for me to secure my local food source. I am wondering if anyone here has participated in such a program before and what the experience is like?

A CSA's drop-off site is very close to our house, so being a good Bay Aryan we signed up and have been quite pleased. We had done a different CSA the year before and suffered a bit during the winter of our discontent (too much kale and cauliflower). Our current CSA had good variety this past winter. They let you pre-buy either quarterly or up to a year in advance (with a small discount). Maybe I should check to see if they have a 5-year pre-buy plan -- or if they will let you squat on their land to provide "food source protection" when things get really rough. :-) What I have enjoyed most is the variety of vegetables and fruit that you have in your veggie box. Gets you to try different things and experiment with new recipes.

212   OO   2008 Apr 23, 3:44am  

EBGuy,

thanks for sharing the experience. Do you find the price of these veggie comparable to that of Whole Foods? I know they come in boxes each week, but I have no idea how large the "standard" box is.

I think prepayment is definitely a good idea :-)

213   Peter P   2008 Apr 23, 3:55am  

OK, in 5 years I will volunteer myself to be a troll at pt’s site.

As Marina Subprime?

214   Chillie45   2008 Apr 23, 3:57am  

@OO,

FWIW, I split 1 share of a CSA with a friend; a whole share turned out to be too much because I only feed 2 people regularly. If you're okay with down-season produce (I had squash coming out of my ears last yr, being in new england), the tomato season is totally worth it. Whenever I had a lot of something I didn't know what to do with, I improv'd soup or did an ingredient search on allrecipes. Plus you get that warm fuzzy feeling meeting the farmer etc etc.

215   Peter P   2008 Apr 23, 4:00am  

too much kale and cauliflower

My suggestion:

1. Caldo Verde
2. Baked Cauliflower

Both are my favorites.

216   EBGuy   2008 Apr 23, 4:14am  

Do you find the price of these veggie comparable to that of Whole Foods?
I hope so... I really can't comprehend how anything could be more expensive than that! The prices are probably on par with what you can get a farmer's market (which means I close my eyes, write the check, and try not to think about it...)
1. Caldo Verde
We tried that this year. So good and fairly simple. Hmmm.... I'm getting hungry.

217   DennisN   2008 Apr 23, 4:44am  

The CSA concept is growing around Boise too.

www.idahostatesman.com/localnews/story/357739.html

It's really hard though to make the system work for a single guy like me.

218   DennisN   2008 Apr 23, 4:51am  

I don't think Patrick.net "broke" the Costco story. The Seattle paper is all over it and I'm sure they've been working on this story for a few days.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/360096_foodshortage23.html

219   Peter P   2008 Apr 23, 4:55am  

We are fine because we are not tied to a particular kind of carb. We have choices:

1. Rice
2. Wheat (pasta, bread)
3. Potato
4. Atkins

220   DennisN   2008 Apr 23, 5:04am  

Don't forget the corn tortillas.

221   Peter P   2008 Apr 23, 5:09am  

I prefer corn bread.

222   EBGuy   2008 Apr 23, 5:37am  

Slow day. How about this for news. From the Berkeley Daily Planet article:
One industry official said Berkeley remains something of an island in a troubled market. “People are always going to want to live here,” he said.
Yes, they will -- but at what price?

1731 6TH St is a 3bed/2bath home with 2158sq.ft. near vaunted Fourth Street shopping.
Now on the MLS for $457,000 .
Sold on 1/26/2006 for $900,000.
Foreclosed on 12/12/2007 for $770,106, by wait, guess ... yes, Countrywide. Yikes, this one actually sent chills down my spine.

223   DennisN   2008 Apr 23, 5:45am  

Then there's always couscous and falafel.

224   Peter P   2008 Apr 23, 5:47am  

Couscous?

Somehow I immediately associated it with slow-cooked short ribs. Am I weird?

225   OO   2008 Apr 23, 5:48am  

Thanks Chillie. It turns out most of the CSAs are full, so I have to sign up on the waiting list.

Local food security, people, local food security...

226   DennisN   2008 Apr 23, 5:52am  

I always associate it with a Berber dinner of couscous and lamb shanks.

227   Peter P   2008 Apr 23, 5:56am  

Yes, lamb shanks too!

But I prefer leg of lamb and lamb chops. Mint jelly is essential!

« First        Comments 188 - 227 of 307       Last »     Search these comments

Please register to comment:

api   best comments   contact   latest images   memes   one year ago   random   suggestions