patrick.net

"In Gandhi’s teaching, no human should be regarded or treated as being an 'enemy', in the sense of someone you have a right to destroy, or to hate, or to regard as alien, from whom you cannot learn, for whom you can feel no understanding or concern.

"These are simply not appropriate attitudes toward another human being. No one should be regarded as being -- in his or her essence or permanently -- evil or as utterly antagonistic. No people should be seen as being evil persons, as if they were without good in them, a different, less human order of being, as if one could learn nothing from them or as if they were unchangeable, even if what there were doing in the moment was harmful and terrible, indeed evil and needed to be opposed. Thus the whole notion of enemy was both unneeded and dangerously misleading."

-- Daniel Ellsberg, from his memoir _Secrets_, relating his initial encounter with Janaki Natarajan Tschannerl, and her description of the Gandhi philosophy of non-violence.

This country was founded on resisting people like you, and we, the right will not give up.

Actually this country was founded as a Novus ordo seclorum, a place that rejected the old order of noble privilege, dynastic wealth, and inequality.

The Progressive Era of 100 years ago had the same conservative vs. liberal battles we see now.

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=607

No, this war of ideologies, is not over. But you are not my enemy, nor am I yours.

I can learn from you and you can learn from me.

The liberals won the battles of 230 years ago, 150 years ago, 100 years ago, 50 years ago, and we'll win the current ones.

If we're still right.

I am reminded of the very great American, Senator Carl Schurz:

“My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.”

stated in a speech in the Senate, February 29, 1872.

The fight between liberals and conservatives is, as you state, a long, rich one, one that the conservatives have been generally losing from the start. But stick to your guns, we need you to keep us honest and our arguments correct.

Troy says

“In Gandhi’s teaching, no human should be regarded or treated as being an ‘enemy’, in the sense of someone you have a right to destroy, or to hate, or to regard as alien, from whom you cannot learn, for whom you can feel no understanding or concern.
“These are simply not appropriate attitudes toward another human being. No one should be regarded as being — in his or her essence or permanently — evil or as utterly antagonistic. No people should be seen as being evil persons, as if they were without good in them, a different, less human order of being, as if one could learn nothing from them or as if they were unchangeable, even if what there were doing in the moment was harmful and terrible, indeed evil and needed to be opposed. Thus the whole notion of enemy was both unneeded and dangerously misleading.”
— Daniel Ellsberg, from his memoir _Secrets_, relating his initial encounter with Janaki Natarajan Tschannerl, and her description of the Gandhi philosophy of non-violence.
This country was founded on resisting people like you, and we, the right will not give up.
Actually this country was founded as a Novus ordo seclorum, a place that rejected the old order of noble privilege, dynastic wealth, and inequality.
The Progressive Era of 100 years ago had the same conservative vs. liberal battles we see now.
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=607
No, this war of ideologies, is not over. But you are not my enemy, nor am I yours.
I can learn from you and you can learn from me.
The liberals won the battles of 230 years ago, 150 years ago, 100 years ago, 50 years ago, and we’ll win the current ones.
If we’re still right.
I am reminded of the very great American, Senator Carl Schurz:
“My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.”
stated in a speech in the Senate, February 29, 1872.
The fight between liberals and conservatives is, as you state, a long, rich one, one that the conservatives have been generally losing from the start. But stick to your guns, we need you to keep us honest and our arguments correct.

Troy,

Making a gratuitous assertion, doesn't make it true.

The liberals of 250 years ago, are NOT the Liberals of today.

Liberals 250 years ago, were all about freewill, free speech, self reliance, self determination.

The Liberals (or more aptly) the Progressives of today, want only to steal the wealth of the Tax paying class (people like me), and maintain themselves in the ruling class.

The sad truth is, that intellectually honest progressives, have MUCH more in common with awakened, and informed Tea Party/ Right / Patriots like myself.

The political left, manipulate people to vote Democrat to "get the evil rich", when it's really the super rich, that back the left, and democrats to steal money from me (the tax paying class) to keep us from rising up and competing with the rich.

I wish you would all read Hayek.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Hayek

There is no place on Earth -- worth living in at least -- that operates according to Hayek.

There is, however, real-world socialist paradises of Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany to learn from.

They have their share of problems but Austrian libertarianism is a pipe dream wrapped in delusion.

I am actually a left-libertarian by leaning. I'd like the world to be structured such that we have infinite economic freedom. However, this is not an infinite world, and what I see with the "Honest Abe" version of libertarianism is nothing more than a vicious circle of the rich getting richer and the poor getting increasingly disempowered as wealth -- land, natural resources, capital -- become increasingly owned by the hereditary wealthy.

This is exactly what the Founders were fighting against. Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson especially.

Thomas Paine wrote _Agrarian Justice_:

"Thus Paine views private property as necessary, but that the basic needs of all humanity must be provided for by those with property, who have originally taken it from the general public. This in some sense is their "payment" to non-property holders for the right to hold private property."

Speaking with my Georgist hat on, it's a beautiful idea!

As for your babble above, I don't know how to respond to it. The Tea Party is largely captured by Christianists like DeMint and Palin, and their shadowy billionaire backers like the Kochs, Murdoch, Dick Armey's FreedomWorks.

The Tea Party is just retreaded and rebranded Republicanism of the sort that catastrophically failed in 2006-2008 after its good long run of 1995-2005. It's all bullshit.

Republicanism and movement conservatism as exercised under Gingrich and Hastert, created many more problems than they solved. Pelosi only got 4 years to address these massive disasters, Obama only 2.

Oh well.

What's funny is that Obama was a lecturer at the University of Chicago, and by accounts got along great with the general Misean nature of the place. Leftists certainly have more to fear from Obama than conservatives, LOL.

Progressives: Hand-holding conservatives through change since 1775.