patrick.net

cb,

You may notice that I am not disagreeing with you. I simply stated that for Bernanke/Paulson/Cox, the short ban has had the intended effect. I did not express a judgment that it was the right thing to do.

Why haven't we seen any jokes along the lines of "Snoopy McCain ejected out of his campaign jet and parachuted to the relative safety of his Capitol Hill office, after going down in flames during an intense dogfight with Baron von Obama".

Perhaps it is a little too strong of a joke to apply to a war hero, but it seems like an obvious one in retrospect.

or something along the lines of

"McCain bailed out of his campaign jet airplane to seek refuge in the relative safety of his congressional office"

OO,

I saw some tv interviews where elected officials referred to a surge of phone calls from constituents that oppose the bailout.

It may be that constituents support bailout , but in another form, with lots of safeguards.

justme,

Letterman ripped McCain apart on his show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjkCrfylq-E

StuckInBA says:

If there is no car loan available, prices of cars will come down to a level where people can afford it with cash.

Correct! Or at least cars will be affordable at the new wage rates with 20% down and 3 year loans.

The Top 10 list on Letterman was very funny.

Capitulation breeds fear first, then optimism with a new sense of direction.

We ain't going to see optimism for a long, long time.

OO. is Mish International Monetary Inc related to our beloved Mish Shedlock?

Correct! Or at least cars will be affordable at the new wage rates with 20% down and 3 year loans.

Or there will be fewer Bimmers on the road. Or people will keep their cars for longer.

Cars manufacturers cannot sell cars at loss forever.

http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/

NuttyNeutron says:

You will probably not keep your job when the next election comes around if you go against the wishes of the people of Ohio.

I would love to see that. Imagine that, during the next election cycle, we see senators and reps who voted for the bailout gatting blasted for it. The ones who voted "nay" will use their nay vote as strong campaign material. The "aye" voting senators/reps will talk about how they were lied to, mis-informed by Bush, etc.

But then, are we holding responsible the senators/reps who voted to abdicate thier Constitutional power to declare war and thus hand that power to the president?

OO,

I think this time, the outrage is definitely more than simply blogs like these. People who bought recently are bitter. People who haven't bought yet are bitter because of assault on their savings. People who have been prudent are bitter. People who have lost their homes are bitter. Who is left to feel apathy ? You are wrong on this.

So wall street executives who receive million dollar bonuses AND a bailout on top of it - are perfect target for their anger. Rightly or wrongly.

A senator mentioned on CNN that 99% of the mails they are receiving are strongly against the bailout.

This has spread way beyond the blogs. People are discussing this at water cooler. Only feeling I have seen is of outrage.

The bailout may still get approval from congress. But when the congressmen initially started, they wanted to bask in the glory of being some sort of savior role. Now they are completely taken aback by the reaction and trying to readjust the course.

I haven't seen this kind of grassroot level campaign in a long time.

I haven’t seen this kind of grassroot level campaign in a long time.

I hope for divine intervention. Perhaps Ron Paul will win just from the write-ins votes.

Cars manufacturers cannot sell cars at loss forever.

Of course not - the cost of labor/materials to produce those cars will fall. Also, excess profit to dealers, manufacturers, and loan companies will not be propped up by debt. During the height of the cheap gas and house ATM era (circu 2000 - 2006), do you recall the profit Ford made on each F-150 pickup?

But when the congressmen initially started, they wanted to bask in the glory of being some sort of savior role.

I strongly disagree. I believe they were spinning a "savior" role to the public, but the true purpose was paying back the finance industry for all past and future campaign contributions and other related lobbyist perks.

If Ron Paul was smart, he would get on the independent ticket right now. I have heard his name more in the past week than when he was running.

Right now, he could probably pull 10% of the total vote.

Ron Paul. The only non-clown on the Capital Hill.

I strongly disagree. I believe they were spinning a “savior” role to the public, but the true purpose was paying back the finance industry for all past and future campaign contributions and other related lobbyist perks.

I don't think we are saying different things. They put on the theater expecting people to appreciate their acting (pun intended), but were completely taken aback by the reaction.

The public this time completely saw through the pretext. The big supporter of the original bailout plan - Barney Frank - was also a champion of Faudie Mac and Phony Mae. Campaign contributions matter, if I have to venture a guess ;-)

Harry Reid is a douche. I just watched a press conference with him where he basically said 'we're not going to listen to the voters because we know better than them'.

That type of 'I'm God' thinking is what caused this mess in the first place. Trying to control the markets is like trying to control evolution. You will lose.

Trying to control the markets is like trying to control evolution.

Absolutely. ;)

We need Ron Paul!!!

Before I post this, I just want to say that you should never watch Jim Cramer's TV show. He acts like an assclown on TV, and you should not take him seriously. The shorts on TheStreet.com are massively superior to the dumbed-down entertainment for Joe SixPack.

Cramer was actually pumping GLD on one of his video podcasts. His theory is that you have to assume that the government will succeed in saving the economy. If yes, then the only way out of this vast debt is via strong inflation. If they blow it, then we're facing deflation and ugly social scenarios, in which case the gold will become more valuable anyway.

Hey Brand, just remember you heard it here first. Lets call it the Mish/Schiff Gold Paradox (or maybe TSHTF Gold Price Theory). Hmmm..., maybe it is time to consider the Cramer 'Sell Indicator'.

Well, who has more money, Cramer or Mish?

Guys like Nouriel Roubini, Shiller and others appear to be very intelligent, but are they? Probably every viewpoint is represented in the statistical sample; one of them is bound to be right. If they had such strong convictions, did they put their own money behind it and become multi-millionaires? Because a theory without conviction is basically just an idea to kick around while you're drinking beer with your pals.

If Mish has large gold positions, and he knocks it out of the park, then he certainly deserves some respect.

Now Buffett... him I take very seriously indeed.

Brand,

I understand what you are saying - but you cannot evaluate economists and investors using the same "who-is-richer" yardstick.

Very few economists have been successful investors. Keynes was an exception, not a norm.

Markets exhibit irrational behavior more often than not. Its very understandable why a logical minded theoretician fails to master them.

A veterinarian who understands anatomy of a horse isn't necessarily a successful rider. These are different skills.

Stuck, I think that's a valid point. Traders and economists are different skills. Cramer is really a trader, and even at his peak, he still operated in the trenches on relatively small amounts of stock, commodities and bonds. I do think it's fair to compare him to Mish, CR @ Calculated Risk and any blogger who makes forecasts with the intention of acting upon them. In that respect, I wouldn't equate the bloggers with economists.

I judge them on how beneficial they can be to me.

so how the fuck does that not make you a fucking boomer. I judge them on how they benefit me.

Yeah, go fuck yourself as I am sure you can benefit from that.

Yeah Obama rocks, man he's so cool, he's going to fix everything, he's going to "change", his plan for change and what he's going to change.

..........aaaab..b.b.a..aaa....

Did you like Jimmy Carter? If so, you're going to fucking love Nobama. But then again it is the trend sucking bay fucking area, where everyone is rich and everyone is immune to the outside world. Enjoy your cake mother fuckers.

surfer, you are a generationist :)

You can make this even easier in terms that Henry Paulson can appreciate by saying it will cost:

70062820720.2 [(dollars^2)(avoirdupois pounds)(cm)(yards)(ft^2)] /[(kilogram)(rod)(acre)(handbreadth)(gallon of gas)(person)]

What is there to be confused about?

OO, thanks for the dealer reference.

Fuck all you maggots, all your money now is belong to us.

F. Morgan Worthington, 1st one out of the gate at Woodstock.

The bailout and wallstreet in a nutshell:

"Man is incapable of comprehending any argument that interferes with his revenue" (Descartes 1650).

No matter what you say, i believe that whatever happened ( the housing bubble, bank crashes,bailout) are natural to a free market.
If we want to enjoy the fruits of free markets we have to deal with some bad things.
There are always booms and busts in an economy. This housing boom was another bubble. There was no way it could have been predicted.
You cannot predict bubbles unless it has already been burst ( Greenspan)
All modern economies work on debt and connot function otherwise( Bernake)

Just get over this bailout and have a nice sleep.we will get through it.

..............
i am running for cover.

Brand Says:
"Guys like Nouriel Roubini, Shiller and others appear to be very intelligent, but are they?"

There is no direct correlation between intellingence and financial success

Financial success is a function of (intelligence, greed , selfishness)
most intelligent people i know of are not that selfish.Most of thier thinking goes in to thinking about the society, friends, advising, random musings..etc
They hardly direct that intelligence for thier own success.
I think evolution has it that way else we would still be in jungle if all intelligent people were just working on thier own success.
that's one reason you will find near perfect predictions from bloggers, academic prof's ..etc who are not that successful in thier life but are 100 times smarter than most successful people in walstreet or new media.

It's 2AM after a Friday night. Do you know where your economic recovery team is?

Did anybody else notice the way that Warren Buffet strode right across the trading floor and inversted $5 billion dollars in Goldman Sachs? Would an investmant in JP Morgan Chase been too obvious -- history repeats itself, or was he just tipping his hand?

Bap33,

I don't know whether Barney Frank is gay, I may not have a good radar for those things, but if you really want to be a tough guy, why don't you pick on his speech impediment instead?

Neutron, I can dig your dimensional analysis there :-)

Everyone,

I have trouble understanding he substance of the Republican alternative bailout proposal. How does it makes sense to "sell insurance" on the bad mortgages? Is this not similar to offering fire insurance on buildings that are already known to be on fire? There's been so little discussion of the details of that proposal that I have a heard time making sense of it.

Injecting capital in the form of preferred stock , and forcing the banks to write down against that capital, seems much more sensible. It should be preferred stock, and it should have VOTING RIGHTS to protect the taxpayers money.