patrick.net

Vicente says

What if I told you there were 30% “bad soldiers” by some metric, and 20% “bad teachers” by some other metric. Which one matters more?

A bad soldier is one that cannot perform his duty. They will either make his life miserable until he becomes functional/reliable, move him to a position more suited towards his deficiencies, or discharge him. A really bad soldier is one whose actions or inability to act put his fellow soldiers' lives in danger. Again, they are dealt with and don't hide behind a union's protection.

So your comparison doesn't mean anything since one side of the equation is virtually immune to punitive or corrective actions, like the child-molesting priest that gets sent to another parish after too many touchy incidents.

klarek says

Vicente says

What if I told you there were 30% “bad soldiers” by some metric, and 20% “bad teachers” by some other metric. Which one matters more?

A bad soldier is one that cannot perform his duty. They will either make his life miserable until he becomes functional/reliable, move him to a position more suited towards his deficiencies, or discharge him. A really bad soldier is one whose actions or inability to act put his fellow soldiers’ lives in danger. Again, they are dealt with and don’t hide behind a union’s protection.
So your comparison doesn’t mean anything since one side of the equation is virtually immune to punitive or corrective actions, like the child-molesting priest that gets sent to another parish after too many touchy incidents.

There's not as much difference as you think.

The military protects it's own unless they become dangerous or an embarrassment. A recruit who fails boot camp is not immediately release as UNSUITABLE NEXT they are sent back until they pass. Well unless you are caught being gay and then efficiency doesn't matter you are fired. By the military example we should make extreme effort at keeping teacher training updated, at identify weak ones and scheduling extra attention to fix their problems, not immediately fire them.

One of my old friends Paul spent most of his career as a drill sergeant and a surprising amount of his memories seem to revolve around all the troops he had to spend extra attention on working around their deficiencies and helping them become effective enough to pass. The military from his perspective was decidedly not "you either are Sgt. Rock or you're out".

Vicente says

By the military example we should make extreme effort at keeping teacher training updated, at identify weak ones and scheduling extra attention to fix their problems, not immediately fire them.

No, the military discharges people all the time.

So what's the military discharge rate for "bad soldiers"? Curious how to ferret that out. Not medical or "enlistment over" but the ones who've at least made it through one enlistment and later get booted as non-performing losers.

The typist is over-paid and her raises were huge. Her attitude is typical of government employees, not just union employees. Everyone knows it's a gravy train. I live in California and know whereof I speak.

"No, the military discharges people all the time."

Yeah, for being GAY! Except for being gay or committing a war crime, it is quite difficult to get dishonorably discharged. I know someone who was in the Navy and got dead drunk. He got written up, but he certainly did not get discharged over it.

Vicente says

Found this funny chart of graduation rates by state:

Hmmmm……
Too hot/boring equals dropouts?
“Eagles are dandified vultures” - Teddy Roosevelt

Nice chart.

I still believe that a student's success in school depends more on his own motivation and background, rather than how much the teacher is paid and how easy it is to fire that teacher.

Soooo.....

My first guess it the northern states have better economic and social support systems for low income families.

Vicente says

klarek says

By supporting teachers’ unions, you’re putting yourself on the side of the debate opposite from the interests of the taxpayers and the children.

Bzzzt. I’m on the side of the children (my rugrat) and the teachers. I am also a taxpayer so I’m on that side too.
Why do so many “right to work” states with no collective bargaining, score very poorly?
Why do many countries with strong teacher unions, seem to do better than the USA?
As even Michelle Ree said recently, it’s plain to see that it’s not the unions that are the problem with American education.
“Eagles are dandified vultures” - Teddy Roosevelt

Its poor parenting and poor teachers....in that order.

kimboslice says

The typist is over-paid and her raises were huge. Her attitude is typical of government employees, not just union employees. Everyone knows it’s a gravy train. I live in California and know whereof I speak.

Exactly slice!!!!

Cook County resident says

Nice chart.
I still believe that a student’s success in school depends more on his own motivation and background, rather than how much the teacher is paid and how easy it is to fire that teacher.

If a students parents teach them to be a thug then they grow to be a thug, if the parents reinforce the importance of educaiton through active participation in their childs life then they take on these same traits while in school

Students are taking their personal cultures into the classroom which is why the USA has such a hard time with education due to the multi-cultural influence we have here. If you go to China, Spain, or Japan it is pretty much one culture which creates an environment where you focus on one single type of student.

Here in the USA we have students that latch on to the stupidity of many cultures:

Thugs
Non-English Speakers
Hip Hop
Trailer Park
KKK

In addition to the culture we have to deal with high levels of mental illness that lower scores as well.