patrick.net

If your mother in law is making in 2011 what a Senior Clerk Typist made in 2001, then she's right and you're wrong. If that's the case, then inflation has eaten about half of what she's gained by earning promotions. She has far less buying power than her peers of 2001 would have had in spite of (presumably) having attained that level of skill.

On the other hand: it's possible that inflation has been getting baked into promotion budgets on-the-sly. If that's the case, then Senior Clerk Typists would have been making about $45k in 2001 --that's about what $57k in 2011 dollars was worth back then.

I suspect the truth may be somewhere in-between and lost in the details. Her benefits might not have been eroding at the same pace as the rest of the worfkorce. In any event, there's really not really enough information to conclude whether or not I should be backing your outrage.

However: there's a somewhat nasty undertone to your post that suggests that working in the public sector morally or otherwise disqualifies someone from improving their earning potential. Public servants aren't indentured, which is the kind of arrangement you'd need to lock in wages at entry-level without inducing high turnover. I'm guessing your mother-in-law is at least forty. She's gained numerous promotions in the last ten years, which seems fast to go from entry-level to a senior position, even (especially?) for clerical work. That's likely the apex of her job ladder and she's now making about a median income in middle age (or later) for somewhat dated but basically skilled work. If so, her buying power will decline going forward without COLA. Relative cost-of-living for her area is left for us to guess --is this the Bay Area?

I'm trying to figure out how outraged I should be.

Clarence 13X says

“Ohh, I wasnt making anything…only about 35k”. So then I asked her well if you started at 35K and are now at 57K you have received a 22K increase in salary over the past 10 years. To which she negatively replied, “Ohh no, I had to apply for new roles within the city to get those increases!!!!”

I think it's what msilenus first suggested. A senior typist 10 years ago, probably made what she makes now, and that is what she meant.

You seem like someone who confuses envy (of some public workers for whatever reason) with legitimate criticism. I guess since you aren't a government worked it's impossible for you to have any empathy and understanding.

Clarence 13X says

and how arrogant they are with their rights as a worker

Clarence 13X says

18 years ago I was a security guard, and guess what I wanted more money so I took my arse to college. This isnt the only path to a better life, just my path….some developed a trade, started a business, etc.

Actually this is classic ego (arrogance). "She shouldn't have worked hard in a job, bettering herself, earning promotions, she should have done what 'I did' and gone back to college."

Of course nearly everyone has issues with their mother inlaw. Maybe these "feelings" are really about something else.

A good friend of mine, who has two daughters going into education. They just finished school and are taken back by all of the political backlash over educators claw back of pay. Rick Scott has ruined it for Florida teachers, he said, why should they go into education now?

Now mind these are the same people like most Patneters, that think Oil should be $500 a barrel because they can't stand the thought of Texas Oil men like Bush making money off Oil. So if they also think if Oil got overly politicized and got so prohibitively expensive, then the Dumb asses that don't know better will stop driving and in a petty round about way, would take money from those Evil Texas Oil men pockets.

Not ever once thinking about the poor dumb ass saps just muddling along trying to make ends meet JUST BARELY with $30 a barrel oil. Or stopping to think for a minute how tightly the Price of Oil is to the sticker price at the retail store as well as the Grocery store.

SO for the Joe the Factory worker who's pay check is only going a 1/4 as far as it used to go.
He doesn't give two shits that teachers pay have been politicized in a tit for tat, you do this, and we do that, tug of war. All he knows is gas is getting out of hand and there is no policy to protect their well being and guarantee dinner on the table every night. Joe's a little busy right now worrying about where his next damn meal is going to come from. So excuse him if he doesn't share in the public unions feelings or entitlement.

But this is our political system at work, nothings getting done, just petty misguided finger pointing.

But if Oil was not topping $100 and the Left wasn't hell bent on $500 Oil(and $1,000 cart load of groceries), then I don't think we would have heard of Bell California this year. 500K pensions and Union Collective bargaining would be so far under the radar of what is important for most American people, no one would even know.

Tenouncetrout says

He doesn’t give two shits that teachers pay have been politicized in a tit for tat, you do this, and we do that, tug of war

Not sure what "you do this, we do that" would be.

Is it, "you concede our continuing tax cuts for the rich, and we go on a fuck the teachers spree ?"

I can't find the tit for tat. Seems more like tat followed by more tat.

Know wut I'm sayin,... Tot ?

Clarence 13X says

some developed a trade, started a business, etc. My key point is that I along with many others sought out the opportunity to increase my earning potential and ability to take advantage of capatilistic opportunities here in America.

So trade unions are okay ? I went back to school and studied Math, all the way up to a Masters degree (already had a *bs degree in business). Whatever job people do, they either first go to school, vocational school, or they learn on the job with an apprenticeship, or other on the job progression. All union jobs fit this. The only thing excluded for the most part from union jobs would be the more entrepreneurial type of path.

(leaving it to you to decide whether the bs stands for bachelor of science or something else)

Government stories:
----------------------------
Story #1:
My wife used to work as an intern for the city, doing clerical work. She completely hated it. She would get more work done than 3 clerical employees. The city full time employees didn't do much work, mainly complained about being underpaid while often drinking on the job and going to strip bars. But they all had a snobby attitude of "we are better than you because we work for the government and you are an intern."

Story #2:
My mother worked for a few days for a government program that is supposed to help single mothers, as an intern as well (it was for educational credits). That place had 8 office workers and they saw about 1 client a day for 30 minutes. For the rest of the time no one did a thing, yet they complained about how they were overworked.

Story #3:
We had a job opening and this fellow (of Indian descent) applied for the job. He was a programmer for a county of Ventura. He expected a 95k salary and benefits. And we would have hired him if he was good, the only problem is that he didn't know anything outside some basic usage of programming tools. I was surprised he even had a job, and even more surprised he was paid a lot. Because entry level programmers knew a lot more than this man.

What I've seen in government workers often is the attitude of "Get a comfy government job where you can't be fired and you are set for life without ever lifting a finger." It is very common. Private sector has it's issues too and a lot, but being lazy isn't promoted and gets filtered out quickly due to the nature of competitiveness in the market.

P.S. 57k salary for typing notes is a lot, your mother should feel lucky.

This is the most ignorant post I have ever read. A promotion is not the same thing as a COL increase. They are two totally different things. If your going to bash unions, get your facts right.

I assume the union workers who did the work at your office were private secotr workers. So if they were private sector workers and your tax dollars are not paying a dime of their salaries, why do you give a rat's butt about them? If they make double or triple what you make, that is NONE of your business.

A union worker, a member of the Tea Party, and a CEO are sitting at a table.
In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it.
The CEO reaches across the table, takes 11 cookies, looks at the Tea Partier and says: "Look out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie."

How about some private company stories? Some executive suite stories?

Do you really think that lazy and sleazy people only exist in government jobs? Think again.

justme says

How about some private company stories? Some executive suite stories?
Do you really think that lazy and sleazy people only exist in government jobs? Think again.

I don't think anyone says sleaziness is one sided. In my post I pointed out that problems exist on both sides. In public sector there is however perpetual unconcerningly comatose mentality that is widespread. A mentality of entitlements to other peoples money and complete disregard for public welfare.

There are employees that care about public service, but there are also many (too many) of the other afore mentioned types.

As I mentioned private sector has their own pitfalls, but perpetual laziness filters out incredibly fast.

Which movie was it where Jim Carrey's ass talks ? Was it Ace Ventura ? That was some funny stuff.

msilenus says

However: there’s a somewhat nasty undertone to your post that suggests that working in the public sector morally or otherwise disqualifies someone from improving their earning potential. Public servants aren’t indentured, which is the kind of arrangement you’d need to lock in wages at entry-level without inducing high turnover. I’m guessing your mother-in-law is at least forty. She’s gained numerous promotions in the last ten years, which seems fast to go from entry-level to a senior position, even (especially?) for clerical work. That’s likely the apex of her job ladder and she’s now making about a median income in middle age (or later) for somewhat dated but basically skilled work. If so, her buying power will decline going forward without COLA. Relative cost-of-living for her area is left for us to guess –is this the Bay Area?
I’m trying to figure out how outraged I should be.

Dont be too outraged, I am one of those guys who is pissed at the fact that someone as successful as her without a college degree would even complain. Its the same ol' story all across America...even with our teachers whom have 3 mos off during the summer months. Sorry for the undertone, but I am pissed....pissed at all the union workers who are lazy enough not to go to college like I did yet they live the same priviledged life as I do but complain all the time about how they want more.

I go to school or obtain a skill specific certification when I want more but they simply try to hold companies hostage. I think somewhere in between all the outrage on both sides lies the truth.

marcus says

Actually this is classic ego (arrogance). “She shouldn’t have worked hard in a job, bettering herself, earning promotions, she should have done what ‘I did’ and gone back to college.”

You have a point, but that is not the message I am looking to send. She shouldnt complain about not getting an increase in 10 years when she did in fact gain a 22k increase. Classic union worker mentality is that they complain about how screwed up everything is and refuse to educate themselves.

She didnt work hard, she simply applied for another job and got better wages. Good points though...I cant fully articulate it without holding a conversation in person.

ChrisLA says

What I’ve seen in government workers often is the attitude of “Get a comfy government job where you can’t be fired and you are set for life without ever lifting a finger.” It is very common. Private sector has it’s issues too and a lot, but being lazy isn’t promoted and gets filtered out quickly due to the nature of competitiveness in the market.

Bingo!!!!!!!! That is where I am coming from...they sit, wait and complain. I will share my next story.

HousingWatcher says

This is the most ignorant post I have ever read. A promotion is not the same thing as a COL increase. They are two totally different things. If your going to bash unions, get your facts right.

Either way she got the increase that she was looking for so why complain. I hadnt had a COLA in 5 years prior to my current job of 3 years, however, I increased my salary by 40k over those 5 years by applying to new roles.

Should I complain about how terrible life is, was or can be without a COLA?

HousingWatcher says

A union worker, a member of the Tea Party, and a CEO are sitting at a table.
In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it.
The CEO reaches across the table, takes 11 cookies, looks at the Tea Partier and says: “Look out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie.”

LMAO....great comedy. Love the snarky tone to it...that about sums up what we are facing. I still wont complain as the opportunity is out there to get 11 cookies at another company by leaving the company where there is only 1 cookie available. Also, you and I can get access to 250 cookies by broadening our horizon's and searching for national openings where they offer more compensation.