0
0

Ten myths about housing prices in the USA


 invite response                
2011 May 25, 11:22am   34,381 views  189 comments

by RobSTL   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

I am not a realtor, just a patriotic American middle-class citizen with a wide international perspective, as I have lived in Asia and Europe for many years. I am one of the few people that believes that housing in the United States is ridiculously undervalued, and always has been, when considering size, quality, features, surrounding infrastructure, median income, etc. I believe that the collapse in housing prices over the past few years has been the most major factor in destroying the American economy, and fear that our great country is stuck in a death spiral. I honestly believe that the housing collapse has hurt the middle class the most. I present these myth busters below purely from an honest discussion and debate perspective, and hope to wake up the masses to the reality of housing within and outside the United States.

Myth #1 : Home prices flat or falling is good for future generations

When the current generation is getting utterly destroyed and losing its savings and wealth because of stagnating or falling prices, they cut back on all spending. This results in the retailers and service providers not making enough sales, which then leads to job cuts and low wages, which then leads to further cutting back in spending, and this cycle goes on with vastly decreased hiring and much lower wages. With competition between the current generation and the next younger generation for the few available jobs, lower wages etc, how exactly is this better for future generations? New college graduates are finding it extremely difficult to get jobs. See these links:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/business/economy/19grads.html?_r=1&ref=business

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/05/19/vanhorn.zukin.jobs/index.html?hpt=C1

Myth #2 : Home prices rising is bad for the economy

There is ample proof around the world to prove this to be a complete and baseless myth. Countries with the most absurd housing price appreciation and bubbles in the past 30 years like India and China, are flourishing with high GDP growth, wage increases etc. Countries where home prices have stagnated or fallen over the past 30 years like in the USA and Japan have collapsed. Enough said...

Myth #3 : There is low inflation in the USA

Food and energy prices have gone up in the past few years considerably. The dollar has lost value against almost all foreign currencies, so assets should be priced higher. Gold is a far better indicator of inflation/falling currency values, and gold has gone up 6 times in the past 10 years, while home prices are now at or below 2000 levels. Even per Case/Shiller, home prices need to at least keep up with inflation. By faking extremely low inflation numbers, the government and economists with ulterior motives have claimed housing to have risen more than inflation. The truth is that house prices have vastly underperformed inflation, and housing in the USA is vastly undervalued compared to the rest of the world.

Myth #4 : There was a huge home price bubble in the USA

See Myth #3 above. Bubbles are relative. The most absurd housing bubbles are in India and China, and not in the developed world. The median single family home price in India's and China's metros is currently over 1 million USD, though the local median annual income in those metros is less than 5000 USD, so it is a median home to median income multiple of 200 in these Asian metros, compared to less than 8 in the United States "bubble" metros even at the peak of the housing price in 2006. Home prices have appreciated about one thousand times (100000.00%) in the past 30 years in India and China, compared to about 3 times in the United States during the same period. Also, these million dollar homes in India and China are extremely small, with no luxury features, and utter squalor all around. When comparing, size, quality, features, surrounding infrastructure and beauty, homes in the USA are unbelievable and absurdly cheap compared to every other country in the world.

Myth #5 : Home price appreciation increases inequality

This is true only in the developing world where only a small percent of the population owns homes. In developed countries where the majority owns homes, the middle class benefits quite a bit from rising home prices. What is happening in the USA now is that the middle class that owned most of the homes is hurting extremely badly from falling home prices and middle class families are getting out of home ownership, while the rich are picking up foreclosed homes at unbelievably low prices and renting them out to the already suffering middle class. The intentional home price collapse in the United States is a conspiracy to transfer massive wealth from the American middle class to the ultra-rich and to buyers from India and China, who can easily buy dozens of luxury homes in America if they sell their small apartments in their Asian metros.

Myth #6 : Home prices collapsed in the USA because they had become too unaffordable

See above myth busters. Homes prices never became "unaffordable" in the USA, especially compared to the rest of the world. What actually happened was that low-income people were allowed to buy dream homes that they could never afford in the first place, thanks to lax lending from banks. As Warren Buffet said recently, it should not be America's social goal to get every family into their dream home, but into a home that they can afford. Housing, especially luxury housing, is not an entitlement, and to expect that palaces of gold should be easily affordable to even the lowest income families is just self-destructive socialistic agenda.

Myth #7 : Median home prices should be at most 3 times the median income to be affordable

This myth/expectation is just plain laughable because the advocates of this multiple never define what the median home is. Should we not divide this at least into apartments, low end homes (1000 sqft or less), middle tier homes (1000-2000 sqft), high end homes (2000 sqft+), and super luxury homes first before we talk about what should be affordable? Then, if the median income cannot easily buy even the apartment or low-end home, you can state the case of unaffordability. Also, how are mortgage rates not part of the calculation of this affordability multiple? Why should this multiple remain "3" whether the mortgage rate is 20% like it was in the 1970s or 4% like it is now?

Myth #8 : Jobs recovery will lead to a housing recovery

Based on all the myth busters detailed above, it is actually the other way around. Jobs follow only when housing is strong and people feel the wealth effect. So long as housing prices keep falling or stagnate, there will never be a true jobs recovery in America.

Myth #9 : Renting is cheaper than buying in the USA

While this may be true in a few places, in most American cities, it is now far cheaper to buy a home than to rent it. Low prices and very low mortgage rates have led to this situation, which is a boon for rich landlords. Rents are also going up in most cities as foreclosed families begin to rent. Beware the bloggers who want median home prices to fall even more from their currently already extremely cheap levels. The goal of these bloggers is to buy those at rock-bottom prices and become very profitable landlords.

Myth #10 : Homes should not be considered investments but merely shelter

State this to any of the billions of people outside the United States and they will kill themselves laughing. Homes have and continue to be the biggest purchase made by most families in the world, throughout history. They are not fools to make it their biggest purchase if it is going to cause them to lose their hard earned wealth.

I know a lot of bloggers on this site will come out attacking my myth busters above. I welcome a civil debate, but please stay away from the needless name-calling, especially if you have nothing to contribute.

#housing

« First        Comments 178 - 189 of 189        Search these comments

178   FredEx   2011 Jun 4, 3:19am  

to mdovell - respectfully...I definitely earn my commissions. I am not a 'top-producer' but my buyer clients know SO MUCH MORE than they would by hiring an attorney. The disclosures are a bare minimum. To give you a glimpse of what I do for my buyers here in Huntington Beach (which has a variety of soil and water issues):
- discover potential issues with expansive and alluvial soil
- describe the various building methods performed by the various builders over the past several decades (i.e. S&S homes here in HB are very well built)
- keep up with the lending industry because short sales remain the better deals
- know how to work around and with the many entities involved in short sales
- KNOW MY INVENTORY: buyers cannot see many properties without a Realtor...more importantly, I save my buyers valuable time by constantly previewing property in Huntington Beach
- and so much more that goes into being a buyer's agent.

If you want to argue about the value of a Realtor, I suggest you argue the value of a listing agent. The reality is that being a listing agent is much less work. I would be more than happy to discuss this further but I got sidetracked with this as I am doing an open house today.

179   B.A.C.A.H.   2011 Jun 4, 11:26am  

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

How many Realtors have been arrested, indicted or sentenced this month?

Ahem,
F**ker, it's Realtors®, okay?

180   RobSTL   2011 Jun 5, 1:34am  

FredEx says

- and so much more that goes into being a buyer’s agent.

I think it is fundamentally flawed when the buyer's agent gets a percent of the home sale price as his/her commission. The higher the price, the better it is for the buyer's agent, while it is bad for the buyer. I have no respect for the profession with that kind of vested interest built into the game.

181   klarek   2011 Jun 5, 1:51am  

RobSTL says

FredEx says

- and so much more that goes into being a buyer’s agent.

I think it is fundamentally flawed when the buyer’s agent gets a percent of the home sale price as his/her commission. The higher the price, the better it is for the buyer’s agent, while it is bad for the buyer. I have no respect for the profession with that kind of vested interest built into the game.

Agents don't really care about the price, they just want a sale. A seller's agent tries to talk down the amount they're willing to accept, buyers' agents try to get their clients to offer higher. It's all about minimizing the time they have to spend.

182   B.A.C.A.H.   2011 Jun 5, 8:06am  

shrekgrinch says

Another Realtard Shill trolling on Patrick.net. NEXT!

Ahem, grinch,

It's Realtard®, okay?

183   corntrollio   2011 Jun 6, 5:17am  

mdovell says

In Mass you cannot legally do plumbing work in walls, ceilings and floors. Anything exposed is fine (water basin, toilet, sink etc). Plumbers unions are obviously opposed to changing of the laws.

You have to be careful to tease out safety regulations -- safety is a good thing. In some cases, you need a licensed plumber for safety purposes. Where it gets abusive is somewhere like San Francisco, where they regulate the types of materials you must use, which the plumbers union supports because it raises the price and increases their labor fees.

184   corntrollio   2011 Jun 6, 5:22am  

FredEx says

- discover potential issues with expansive and alluvial soil
- describe the various building methods performed by the various builders over the past several decades (i.e. S&S homes here in HB are very well built)

Both of those are things a good inspector or contractor can tell me. Why would I trust you to tell me about that? Do you have a background in local geology? Do you have a background in architecture or building?

- keep up with the lending industry because short sales remain the better deals
- know how to work around and with the many entities involved in short sales

This might be a value-add service if actually true, although I've found myself to be more knowledgeable about short sale processes than some realtors I've spoken to. If you are good at this, then kudos to you. There are lots of people who don't know enough or don't have the patience to do this, so it might be a value-add to them.

- KNOW MY INVENTORY: buyers cannot see many properties without a Realtor…more importantly, I save my buyers valuable time by constantly previewing property in Huntington Beach

This seems like a red herring. It certainly doesn't seem to be correlated with the fee paid for this.

185   everything   2011 Jun 6, 8:59am  

My friend went to China with his new wife. She sold one apartment, and bought two more. Her friend sold two apartments, and bought three. They don't intend on living in any of the purchases, just flipping them over time.

To be honest, I'm not even seeing any sizable home price decline where I live, just lower demand since the affordability crash.

Investors who are wise, with cash and credit, will snap up the junkers, rent them out, and in 20 years you'll see new slum neighborhoods where you never thought they would exist..

186   RobSTL   2011 Dec 18, 5:18am  

Like I said 6 months ago, I am too busy with my work and life to be spending a lot of time on this blog. It has now been about 7 months since I posted this, so wanted to post just to bring this back to life.

So finally, there is some awakening in the USA and the rest of the world regarding China's ABSURD bubble. India's even more ABSURD bubble is still not well understood, so many more decades before they pop. Meanwhile, good old USA's unbelievably cheap housing continues to get cheaper. No end in sight in economic malaise...death spiral continues...

Year 2050....American median single family home price is down to USD 50000.00 in nominal value. USA median household income is down to $25,000.00. Some bloggers are still complaining about how unaffordable USA housing remains with the house to income multiple being 2. Meanwhile, in the same year 2050, India/China median household income is also now at $25,000.00, but their median small home price is now up to USD 5 million, retaining their historical house to income multiple of 200.

187   David9   2011 Dec 18, 6:15am  

That's all very nice. But the only facts provided to the statements are on the sour American economy. The first thing that came to mind is the word 'spin'. I'm sure there are mega expensive housing units in India and China, but without looking up facts, it is my belief there are billions of poor people in India and China with really cheap tin roofs to go along with them.

188   HEY YOU   2012 Oct 16, 2:35am  

I believe everything I read on them there interwebs.

189   Tenpoundbass   2012 Oct 16, 2:38am  

Falling house prices are BAD for the idiots that over paid PERIOD.

Time heals all wounds, when the economy forgets the losers that lost their asses, houses SHOULD start to move and be sold. When houses sale you get the Nesting phenomena, and history has proved time and time again, that is America's biggest economic GDP driver.

Just like had the FED allowed the banks to take their medicine the carnage in the short term would have been offset by the thousands of opportunities for new growth and new business for every one failed large institution. Regardless of the vertical. Those fire sales, auctions, acquired business contacts would have created a boom in this country not seen since Post WW2 or even more healthy growth than what we had during the housing boom.

Up from the behemoth trees decaying on the forest floor, will sprout hundreds if not thousands of new green shoots, reaching for the sun.
What the fed(as the policy around the world) has managed to do, is prop dead and dying trees. You can't build a house with rotten wood.

Thanks global economy, and thanks Ben Bernanke.

« First        Comments 178 - 189 of 189        Search these comments

Please register to comment:

api   best comments   contact   latest images   memes   one year ago   random   suggestions