patrick.net

Feel the Love here.

Homeboy says

No, it's definitely your problem. I simply picked the first chart I found on the web that showed the index and was easy to cut and paste into the thread. To attempt to impugn the source when you agree with my conclusion is disingenuous. You're just trolling. You are arguing for the sake of argument only.

I don't agree with your point. 2010 and 2011 were both good times to buy. The small drop between the times discussed wasn't the major leg down that these people were predicting. They were still telling people that major price drops were coming in their posts of summer 2011. The original poster and those like 'waiting' who chose to support him were clearly wrong.
Homeboy says

How was she wrong? She said she advised a friend not to purchase IN 2010. As far as I am aware, she didn't say NEVER to purchase, she simply said don't do it in 2010. Considering that Egads, who is supposedly on YOUR side in this argument, just admitted he had to bid $5000 over asking and waive contingencies to get an offer accepted in 2010, the advice is looking better and better.

They weren't advising people to buy in the summer of 2011. They were still saying people should continue to wait (for the next supposed substantial leg down in prices they repeatedly claimed was coming in other posts and that obviously never materialized). 2010 in hindsight was a good time to buy. The summer of 2011 may or may not have been a better time than 2010 depending on your particular circumstances. Both offered as good or better deals compared to recent years, which is precisely the opposite of what those people were predicting, the people you have decided to defend on here.

Bigsby says

They were taking the piss out of the claims of the original poster and a few others about what was coming post summer 2011. I'm simply saying that the original poster was wrong, so why bother defending him or his supporters?

I'm not defending the original poster. I even explicitly said so. Your thinking has no nuance to it at all. There is more than "BUY GOOD. NOT BUY BAD."

Homeboy says

Bigsby says

They were taking the piss out of the claims of the original poster and a few others about what was coming post summer 2011. I'm simply saying that the original poster was wrong, so why bother defending him or his supporters?

I'm not defending the original poster. I even explicitly said so. Your thinking has no nuance to it at all. There is more than "BUY GOOD. NOT BUY BAD."

Good grief. You have got to be joking. You said they shouldn't be criticized for saying that 2010 was a poor time to buy. They didn't say to buy in 2011. What is there to support in that person's advice? If they'd said don't buy in 2010, buy in 2011 you might have a point. They didn't and you don't.

Bigsby says

Good grief. You have got to be joking.

Good grief. You have got to be joking.

Bigsby says

You said they shouldn't be criticized for saying that 2010 was a poor time to buy.

Stop lying. I said nothing about any "they". There was ONE person here who advised a friend not to buy in Fremont, CA in 2010, and I proved that prices dropped in Fremont, CA from 2010 to 2011, so 2011 WAS a better year to buy. Stop telling me what I said. Read the fucking thread, will you?

Bigsby says

If they'd said don't buy in 2010, buy in 2011 you might have a point.

No, if she said, "Don't buy in 2010, or EVER", then YOU would have a point. In 2010, we still had two years until prices started going up. TWO YEARS. That's a long time. Are you saying that "Don't buy this year" has exactly the same meaning as "Don't EVER buy"? Because I don't think it does have the same meaning.

Bigsby says

That may have been deliberate or it may have been a simple error.

That's a lie. I made no error and there was nothing misleading. Are you disputing that prices fell from 2010 to 2011?

If yes, then you are wrong.

If no, then you are a troll.

egads101 says

Homeboy, your arguments and hystronics are idiotic.

The word is histrionics, and you are not one to talk about that. I'll show you histrionics:
egads101 says

you cocksucker!

your advice sucked green donkey balls

you are a fucking moron who wouldn't know when to buy a house if Jesus, Buhda, and Einstien all poved it was the best time to buy.

no dumbshit

Nice try, dumb guck, but FAIL!

you mean you are too fucking stupid to read the title post on THIS THREAD????? *

Histrionics, indeed. Ha Ha Ha Ha!

* (BTW, after all that screaming, it turned out you were talking about the WRONG PERSON, LOL.)

Bigsby says

I'm not lying.

Yes you are.Bigsby says

They is a general reference to the people in this thread who said wait (for the predicted major leg down)

I made no general observations. I only said that the relentless lambasting of the woman who advised a friend not to buy, specifically, in Fremont, CA, in 2010, by people in this thread, for which they have shown ZERO evidence that the advice applied to any time period past 2011, was too harsh.

So yeah, you lied.

Bigsby says

And that is NOT what the person who actually posted that example was saying.

You don't know that. Did you ask? You are claiming that the advice applied to a time period well into 2012. Do you have any evidence of that? I would actually agree that it was bad advice if the advice were, "Wait until 2013 to buy". But you don't have any evidence that such advice was given. So don't lie and claim that person said something that you have no way of knowing.

Bigsby says

Were these people saying buy, buy, buy in 2011?

I don't know. Was she saying NOT to buy in 2011?

Bigsby says

It's very easy for you to turn around and say look the graph shows 2011 was a bit cheaper

Well it's also very easy for you to turn around and say look the graph shows 2013 was more expensive. So what?

Bigsby says

However you are attacking those who criticized these people's advice about waiting for the next big decline.

No I'm not. I'm not aware that she specified a particular numerical amount for the decline. Where are you getting the idea that it was in any way quantified? We do know that the person who bought the house ended up underwater, and had to find extra work to make the mortgage payments. I showed that the decline was 15% in Fremont. Were there people claiming that there would be huge price drops after 2012? Yes, I'm sure there were. Was I talking about those people? No, I was not. Just because YOU are confused about who to direct your anger at doesn't make ME wrong.

Bigsby says

Oh, how very convenient. These people were predicting massive further falls in thread after thread.

There you go again. "These people". I said nothing about any vague group of "these people". I was only talking about ONE person and the advice given to ONE OTHER PERSON in Fremont, CA.

Troll.

Bigsby says

And you appear to have got yourself a lot more worked up about it than the person who actually made the post

I dunno. You and Egads seem a lot more worked up to me. Egads is positively flipping out, and you aren't far behind. I'm just trying to answer the crazy onslaught of over-the-top rants from you guys. I will most likely stop posting the second you guys stop arguing with me. I thought I was making a pretty benign point about waiting one year to buy in 2010 maybe not having been such a bad idea. I had no idea you guys were going to go berserk and start relentlessly attacking me.

egads101 says

The example quoted is a big freaking lie: the person bought a home for $600K, in a city with a median at that time of what $400K? today that city median is $700K, and allegedly, that home is now only worth $700K????

Bobby, you are delusional and need to take your meds.
Why are you so angry? I am not the liar and troll on this board.
Everyone knows who the troll is and it isn't me.

But we're all wrong about everything and you are always right. Right, Bobby?

And we're all jealous.

All the ranting and raving only shows how crazy you are. I can't imagine anyone wanting to spend 10 minutes with you in person if this is the way you are on a message board.
Weird and crazy.

Homeboy says

Bigsby says

Oh, how very convenient. These people were predicting massive further falls in thread after thread.

There you go again. "These people". I said nothing about any vague group of "these people". I was only talking about ONE person and the advice given to ONE OTHER PERSON in Fremont, CA.

Troll.

Again, a little rich coming from you.

Bigsby says

Again, a little rich coming from you.

Wow, your childish banter is getting even worse, if that's possible. Basically the equivalent of the schoolyard taunt, "I know you are but what am I?" LOL.

Bigsby says

What do you think these people have been advising? You are making the mistake of isolating one comment and saying this is the only evidence when it quite clearly isn't

Yet another strawman. I made no such claim. I made a comment about ONE person's advice, and the board's reaction to that ONE THING. What is your major malfunction that you can't grasp that?

Bigsby says

So what? Well, maybe that 2010 was a good time to buy after all.

I didn't say 2010 wasn't good. I only said 2011 was better. I'm beginning to wonder if it's even POSSIBLE for you to type a sentence that isn't a strawman.

Homeboy says

Bigsby says

So what? Well, maybe that 2010 was a good time to buy after all.

I didn't say 2010 wasn't good. I only said 2011 was better. I'm beginning to wonder if it's even POSSIBLE for you to type a sentence that isn't a strawman.

So then 2010 wasn't a poor time to buy. Thanks for clearing that up.

Bigsby says

And I think you've rather gone overboard in your response to me.

Well, my friend. You reap what you sow. I certainly didn't ask you to jump in here and start accusing me of all kinds of things. From where I'm sitting, YOU are the one who went overboard. Also, my advice to you is to cool it on the faux outrage and acting so flustered all the time. You aren't being as level-headed as you like to imagine. There have been other threads where I have totally agreed with you. But if you attack me, I'm not going to just roll over and play dead.

Bigsby says

So then 2010 wasn't a poor time to buy. Thanks for clearing that up.

I have been nothing but clear in this entire thread. Any confusion is your own. I'm really not just saying this in a "cutting contest" way, but I seriously think you sometimes just assume what someone's position is without REALLY reading what he wrote.

Bigsby says

Homeboy says

You agreed with the observation that prices fell from 2010 to 2011, yet you say the chart was "misleading".

The actual chart shows clear, sharp, seasonal fluctuations that your graph didn't. Yours also completely omitted the substantial rises that have since occurred, so yes, I do think it was misleading.

Homeboy says

You also seem to vacillate between saying, "All I said was that the chart didn't look like the normal chart", and claiming that I'm deliberately trying to deceive. Seems like a kind of baiting game where you're trying to make me angry so you can then say, "Why are you angry? I just said the chart looked different than the normal one".

Actually, I keep bringing that up because you seem to think there was nothing wrong with your original chart. I disagree, but yes, I have no doubt made too much of an issue of that.

Homeboy says

I mean sure, bulls have the advantage that everything goes up EVENTUALLY, so if you wait enough years, you can pretend you're vindicated. But that doesn't really take any special insight, does it?

Except they did have enough conviction in their beliefs to actually risk a great deal of money (everything in the case of Egads), so there is a little more to it than a bit of bluster on a forum.

Bigsby says

Yours also completely omitted the substantial rises that have since occurred, so yes, I do think it was misleading.

I agree that WOULD be misleading if I had made any sort of claim about whether or not those rises occurred. But since that had NOTHING to do with the point I was making at the time, I just can't understand why you can't let that go. It may not have been entirely up to date. It does rise at the end, but maybe not all the way to the current month. I honestly didn't even think about that, as it had nothing to do with the point.

Let's say I'm a farmer, and I want to prove that I grow prize-winning zucchini. So I take a picture of my zucchini plants. Then let's say you find another picture of my field, and you can see that I also grow corn in the same field. Would you say I was being misleading because I didn't show the corn in my picture?

And omitting the sharp seasonal fluctuations that were occurring..?

And I'm sorry, but to me, there is also something strange in posting a graph that goes up to the beginning of 2013 but omits the major rises and actually slightly drops at the end when you are discussing whether 2010 was a good or poor time to buy. Obviously we disagree on this. Such is life.

Bigsby says

Except they did have enough conviction in their beliefs to actually risk a great deal of money (everything in the case of Egads), so there is a little more to it than a bit of bluster on a forum.

Conviction and belief are not the same as insight. And really, someone like me who doesn't have a lot of money and only has one shot at buying a house risks far more than any investor who's got a ton of money burning a hole in his pocket.

Homeboy says

Bigsby says

Except they did have enough conviction in their beliefs to actually risk a great deal of money (everything in the case of Egads), so there is a little more to it than a bit of bluster on a forum.

Conviction and belief are not the same as insight. And really, someone like me who doesn't have a lot of money and only has one shot at buying a house risks far more than any investor who's got a ton of money burning a hole in his pocket.

Did Egads have a ton of money? He's a community college professor. From what he's said, he risked everything based on his convictions/insights/whatever you want to call them.

Call it Crazy says

Bigsby says

Did Egads have a ton of money? He's a community college professor. From what he's said, he risked everything based on his convictions/insights/whatever you want to call them.

Do you believe everything you read on an anonymous forum on the Internet??

I guess the title of this thread "Sheeple" really fits you.....

I think you know fine well he's been honest about his purchases and that you are just bullshitting.

egads101 says

Futher, the contention that "I had to write 50 offers to get one accepted" actually prove my point: had you bought a year earlier, you had much more choice, AND negotiation power. I don't give a crap what ANY chart says, that was the reality, on the streets.

Irrelevant. What we're discussing, and what you can't seem to remember to save your life, is whether the advice given IN 2010, IN FREMONT, CA, was the most horrible advice ever given and whether the giver of the advice deserves to be kicked in the balls, which she does not have. I said no, it wasn't such horrible advice, and that waiting a year might have prevented the person from ending up underwater. So unless you own a time machine, I would say that buying in 2009 would have been off the table in 2010. Wouldn't you agree?

Bigsby says

Did Egads have a ton of money? He's a community college professor. From what he's said, he risked everything based on his convictions/insights/whatever you want to call them.

Did he have a ton of money? HE SAID HE BOUGHT 13 HOUSES. FUCKING THIRTEEN. Yeah, that's a ton of money in my book. Ooh, big "risk taker" - LOL. I could afford exactly ONE house. In fact, almost everyone I know can afford exactly one house.

You guys really take the cake, you know that?

egads101 says

waitingforthefall didn't say "wait a year"

How do you know that?

egads101 says

waitingforthefall spent the next 3 years on here, saying home prices were about to fall... endlessly.

Link?

egads101 says

so yes, it was terrible shit advice, as seen by the likely 300K or more in increased equity the homebuyer "she felt sorry for" is now sitting on.

The homeowner would have even MORE equity, and wouldn't have had to do extra work and stress out to make mortgage payments, had he bought in 2011, so your observation doesn't prove anything.

egads101 says

are you, in real life, as fucking stupid as you are on here?

Hmmmm...you're the one who couldn't tell the difference between the OP and waitingforthefall, and aren't you the one who has to keep changing his screen name because everyone here viewed you as a silly troll?

egads101 says

A terrorist threat to my place of work from one of you cocksuckers... yeah, that was enough for a name change...

And that didn't clue you in that maybe something is wrong with your posting style?

egads101 says

Find the post that says that, then you stupid fuck.

She said she advised that person not to buy in 2010. YOU are making the claim that this advice somehow extended past 2012. I think it's contingent on YOU to provide evidence for you claim.

I will say this - waitingforthefall bought investment properties in 2011, so that doesn't sound like someone who was advising people NOT to buy in 2011. Does it sound like that to you?

It would be nice if the person in question would actually weigh in here, but she's probably just enjoying your insane rants.

egads101 says

do you want to know something, you stupid fuck? there is always a better deal.

Gee, I can't imagine why anyone would threaten you in real life? Is this how you act in real life?

egads101 says

A better time, a seller who would have taken a couple thousand less.

I guess you failed to look at the data I posted for Fremont, because it was EIGHTY thousand, not "a couple thousand". But then you do strike me as someone who has no qualms about making up lies.

egads101 says

Is that your fucking stupid point?

No, it's a silly strawman point that you made up.

egads101 says

seriously, I have to ask again, are you this stupid in real life?

I haven't been threatened by anyone on this forum in real life, so maybe that answers your question?

egads101 says

by that definition, Only 1 person, In the entire fucking country, got the best deal out of the crash; The mathematically cheapest home in the mathematically cheapest city, poised to rise the most, on exactly the right day of the right year.

Are you serious? So you don't think ANY year is better than any other year to buy, so long as your house goes nominally above the price you paid for it at any time in the future? So 2007 was just as good as 2009, so long as the house you bought goes one dollar above the price you paid for it? O.K., whatever you say. Good luck with that investing career.

egads101 says

seriously, you are a fucking loser. and a moron.

Listen. Many of the people here trade insults, but the brighter ones do it in a clever way that has something to do with the argument they're making. Simply stammering "You are a fucking loser. and a moron" is not the slightest bit clever. It just makes you sound like an angry troll. You really should start thinking about why everyone viewed you as a troll and why you have to keep changing your screen name. You actually come off as a spoiled rich fuck who has nothing better to do than cuss at people on the internet.

Be very careful.
In this forum, in this place, that may not be the case.

Homeboy says

Irrelevant. What we're discussing, and what you can't seem to remember to save your life, is whether the advice given IN 2010, IN FREMONT, CA, was the most horrible advice ever given and whether the giver of the advice deserves to be kicked in the balls, which she does not have.

Homeboy says

It would be nice if the person in question would actually weigh in here, but she's probably just enjoying your insane rants.

There's no use replying to an insane person. Bobby has delusions of grandeur and thinks everyone is jealous of him. You can't talk to a crazy person and expect to receive a rational response.

Homeboy says

Bigsby says

Did Egads have a ton of money? He's a community college professor. From what he's said, he risked everything based on his convictions/insights/whatever you want to call them.

Did he have a ton of money? HE SAID HE BOUGHT 13 HOUSES. FUCKING THIRTEEN. Yeah, that's a ton of money in my book. Ooh, big "risk taker" - LOL. I could afford exactly ONE house. In fact, almost everyone I know can afford exactly one house.

You guys really take the cake, you know that?

How much would that one house cost? And how old are you and your friends? Egads is somewhere around his late 40s I believe. He used everything that he could get his hands on to buy a large number of very cheap properties. That doesn't mean he was some high flying investor, does it? It was clearly a well thought out risk on his part, and the fact that you felt it necessary to write that post makes it clear to me that you are just trying to start an argument.

egads101 says

you guys can say whatever you want. you will NEVER achieve what I have :-)

You didn't "achieve" anything, you had enough money burning a hole in your pocket that you were able to buy 13 properties, while the average family can only afford ONE house, to live in. Like I said, you're just a rich spoiled fuck. And quite honestly, I wouldn't WANT all that money if it made me into a self-centered asshole like you. Your constant bragging doesn't impress anyone here - believe me.

egads101 says

Homedicksucker has 133 pages of posts, arguing with everyone in every market, even cities he has never visited, that 2012 was the bottom. It was not. Fucking get over it, you screwed up!

I never said 2012 was the bottom EVERYWHERE. There are actually markets in the Bay Area where 2009 was the bottom. I did say 2012 was the bottom in MY town, and that's when I bought. But very early in 2012. 2012 was when prices started going up. I don't know where you're getting the idea that I "screwed up". As I said, I bought within a month of the exact bottom of the local market, and the comps show my house being worth 40% more than what I paid for it.

Bigsby says

Anyway, I'm done with this.

Yet another lie, I see. LOL.

Homeboy says

egads101 says

you guys can say whatever you want. you will NEVER achieve what I have :-)

You didn't "achieve" anything, you had enough money burning a hole in your pocket that you were able to buy 13 properties, while the average family can only afford ONE house, to live in. Like I said, you're just a rich spoiled fuck. And quite honestly, I wouldn't WANT all that money if it made me into a self-centered asshole like you. Your constant bragging doesn't impress anyone here - believe me.

An entirely unnecessary attack. He's a middle aged man. His 'wealth' back in 2010 was (considerably) less than a very great number of people in CA, for example. How does his situation constitute being 'a rich spoiled fuck?' YOU are trolling now.

Homeboy says

Bigsby says

Anyway, I'm done with this.

Yet another lie, I see. LOL.

If you post shite, I may feel the need to respond. Call me old fashioned if you like.

Bigsby says

His 'wealth' back in 2010 was (considerably) less than a very great number of people in CA, for example.

Oh, yeah - everyone in California can afford to buy 13 houses.

Jesus Christ, do you even LISTEN to yourself?

Bigsby says

If you post shite, I may feel the need to respond. Call me old fashioned if you like.

Oh, really? That's not what you wrote before. You said you were "done", and you said "knock yourself out". Guess that wasn't true, though.

Homeboy says

Bigsby says

His 'wealth' back in 2010 was (considerably) less than a very great number of people in CA, for example.

Oh, yeah - everyone in California can afford to buy 13 houses.

Jesus Christ, do you even LISTEN to yourself?

FFS, he said he had $400,000 in the bank from selling previous property and not much else. What kind of equity do you think rather a lot of 50 year-olds have in property on the East and West coasts (and elsewhere)? Do you think that makes them 'rich spoiled fucks?' What is the matter with you?

Homeboy says

Bigsby says

If you post shite, I may feel the need to respond. Call me old fashioned if you like.

Oh, really? That's not what you wrote before. You said you were "done", and you said "knock yourself out". Guess that wasn't true, though.

No, I guess it wasn't, largely because you are continuing to be an arsehole and I've got half an hour to kill before going out.