patrick.net

LOL, this thread is crazy. I vote that I not be allowed to suggest any more topics for discussion. Can I get an "amen?" :-P

Surfer-X, I'm sorry about your friend. And I do hope you'll stick around. We need someone to rage against the machine.

Owneroccupier, your point about us having it better than most of the world is well-taken. Thanks for adding a ray of light in all the doom and gloom. :-) I want to believe that any bad economic times to come will ultimately bring positive change.

RE the catastrophes in the gulf coast region, I would be very surprised if it contributed to a greater demand for real estate here in CA. Many people who've never lived in CA are terrified of the earthquakes, so I'm guessing the snow birds and such are not going to flee one disaster area for another potential one. Plus real estate is so relatively cheap there as opposed to here (even with recent run-up in FL prices), it's pretty hard for people to make the leap from that region to this one. Or at least it seems that way to me. :-)

SactoQt,

Great story --this is a classic example of riding the market downhill.
Btw, I wouldn't worry about Surfer-X --he'll be back eventually. As Jack, Cindy, Karrie, etc. correctly pointed out, irritating though the troll may be, no one should be feeding him. The more negative attention he gets, the more he keeps coming back.

PS I'm clearly feeling the need to add many smiley faces to this thread. Please excuse the excessive smiling.

PS I’m clearly feeling the need to add many smiley faces to this thread. Please excuse the excessive smiling.

Personally I could use the smiles. I mixed a double martini and took a bath to unwind. This is supposed to be fun right? Btw, I'm trying to watch the thread while taking care of two kids and packing to move in a week and a half. Have pity on me when I can't get to the troll's post's and ignore ignore ignore. I'm begging here. :?

PS I’m clearly feeling the need to add many smiley faces to this thread. Please excuse the excessive smiling.

No :mrgreen: need :twisted: for :roll: you :evil: to :oops: apologize :lol: we :razz: understand :cool: the :shock: feeling :grin: completely :???:

I think it's somewhat likely that some people, in the frigid northeast, who had been planning on buying retirement/vacation property somewhere on the warm sunny gulf coast, would naturally look set their sights on california in light of the recent gulf coast disaster(s). How many people??? Anyone's guess. Hopefully, for their sake, they come out & experience the crisp & cool ocean water before committing to buy.

Sacto, you're doing a great job. You shouldn't feel like you have to babysit us all the time. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

HARM, LOL. I must expand my emoticon language skills. I love the face with the shocked eyes. I'm too lazy to go look up how to do them all.

SQt,
Somehow it seems that when you post threads per someone's request, it degenerates like this one (like when I requested "rate hike" thread, too). So sorry! Don't worry, must be just a cruel coincidence! I'm sure it'll stope! Don't give up on threadmastering!

codex.wordpress.org/List_of_Emoticons

Thanks for the support guys! It is much appreciated. I do seem to get the threads that degenerate into the biggest messes. Just lucky I guess. I'm going to be out of commission for a few days when we move, so I'm thinking it might be time to talk some other regulars into threadmastering?? Anyone? Anyone?
Just register and Patrick will send you a password and you'll have mighty thread making powers!

Lol
Now we just need Prat to chime in and it would be perfect.

_shakes head in disgust at nasty flame war_

_walks a bit futher_

_kicks a teenage troll posing as $400K/year "investment banker"_

_walks a bit further_

_kicks a defenseless Realtor(tm)_

_walks a bit further_

_starts a preemptive bidding war_

_walks a bit further_

_holds beer while cackling with Jack, Peter P & KurtS @ Marin Brewing Co._

Chewbacca,
HARM-as-prat

Harm-as-prat

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
My evening is now complete! :D

I go into an angry rant about once a week myself so I have not yet transcended the angry problem either.

Angry? You are one of the nicest person I have ever met. Perhaps I have mistaken. :-P

Pop!,
I haven't read the whole article yet; but my first thought was: "Wow, they'll have to re-calculate all the ocean tide tables".

I bet Jack had *no idea* just how prescient his "Roid is Prime" predictions were!

I'm trying to think of what a home on the moon would be called, but I can't think of anything as good as home'roid. Lunalots? Moonpads? Nothing sounds as good. I'll keep thinking.....

McMoonsion

LOL too funny Pop!

MnMoonsion

Ooooooooh, that's good. I give you both credit. ;)

There is a Nobel Peace Prize, so he obviously didn't just value science.

How many people have concluded that Greenspan's "conundrum" might be based on the fact foreigners are now too afraid to hold long term US debt, in case the US dollar and economy sink further - hence the disconnect between short and long term rates?

Any thoughts on that?

tsusiat,
I think your opinion is shared by several on this board.
A quick search turned up this article
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7038159/site/newsweek/
The article contains this rather disturbing statement:
"Through September, foreigners had provided 32 percent of the money raised in U.S. credit markets in 2004, up from 14 percent in 2000."
I'm curious as to the numbers for 2005.

Here, I found 55 page .pdf file concerning foreign central bank effects on long bond interest, among other things:
http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~nroubini/papers/BW2-Unraveling-Roubini-Setser.pdf

FWIW it's "Roubini and Setser"...I have no idea if they're well-regarded or not.

Hurricane Rita is now a category 5 and is bearing down on Texas. It could also veer to the right and hit southern Louisiana, just what they need. At least this time mass evacuations are underway and the federal government has already declared a state of emergency so the response won't be so slow this time. Hopefully this one will slow down before it hits, but it's still going to be a doozy. What effect do you guys think 2 category 5 hurricanes are going to have on the economy? Also, since it's still in the gulf, the oil rigs will probably be hit again.

There is no Nobel prize in Economics. Mr. Nobel specifically prohibited it. He said it isn’t a science, and I agr

I love it. You should probably go inform Geroge A. Akerlof (from my alma mater), A. Michael Spence and Joseph E. Stiglitz (from my other alma mater) that their prizes don't exist. I think there's a ton of these non-prize winners sitting over in Berkeley too.

Got to nobelprize.org for reference. The actual award's full title is: "The Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel"

"You must have a hole in your head if you think diluting an existing race and culture is a good thing."

You could have disagreed with me without insulting me. That was completely unnecessary.

Suggestion for new thread topic (directed at SactoQt):

OIL SHOCK! (Part II). With Rita now headed straight for the US refinery heartland, what effects can we expect economically. Short-term, long-term, macro, micro, psychological. And finally, if/how/when will this affect the Bay Area's real-estate bubble?

They say diversity of race/sex/perversion is great, but how? They have never provided one logical argument about why it is great. Because they can’t. Their real goal is to destroy America and western civilization in general. They do that with their constant attacks on morality and Christianity. They do that with their socialism. And they do that with their immigration policies allowing this country to become the United Nations.

Firstly, I'll try to avoid the direct race-baiting which is going on. I really deplore that kind of troll the worst.

(a) One need not be liberal to believe diversity has logically consistent, social and economic benefits. I, for one, am anything but liberal. I count myself an Objectivist, which is closer to Libertarian than anything, and I ensure you that I am _way_ more fiscally conservative than you can imagine.

(b) I have provided at least 4 logical arguments regarding diversity, all of which are grounded in economic theory and proven empirically and historically.

(c) Who's goal is it to "destroy western civilization"? Just because intelligent people disagree about these things doesn't indicate that they are somehow your enemy. Not only does this not follow, but it's starkly anti-American.

(d) Morality and Chistianity? You have drawn a parallel linking Liberals to non-moral/non-Christians and conservatives as the opposite. Let me ask you this: Who, exactly, has been responsible for the overwhelming bulk of immigration into the US since the Industrial Revolution, continuing today? Unless you answer Oligarchs, Industrialists, and most recently Multinational Corporations then you are simply wrong. I don't seem to recall seeing many of these folks crusading for leftist causes over the years.

(e) Finally Socialism. Historically, Socialist countries have allowed very little-to-no immigration. This continues today in much of Socialist-Democratic Europe. If the US becomes "more Socialist", then expect less immigration because the people here already will exert their self-beneficial intent to erect barriers to free-trade, immigration, and capital market liberalization. It is the fiscal conservatives (pro-free market, free trade), who want _more_ immigration because it helps to create greater overall economic growth and wealth generation.

...I'm happy to provide ecomonic proofs, etc. but if all people are worried about is religious culture wars, then I can't offer anything of use. Just remember that dogmatic ideological crusades make you no better than those you call your enemy.

Do you they ever claim that China is worse off because it only has Chinese?

...and one more thing, you show your ignorance here, I'm afraid. China is not "one-people", even if they all "look the same to you". Go travel in China a bit and tell me that the people in the rural north are the same cultural, ethnic, religious as those on the coast. China, in fact, is incredibly diverse, and is becoming more integrated as the government modernizes the economy and infrastructure and people move between regions.

...and lots of people complain about Japanese monoculture and hegenomy, and have been doing so since the early 1960s. Ask anyone who happens to live somewhere near Japan.

Thanks, Randy, for the very well-reasoned arguments. I agree completely.

“are they nuts! I’m not selling for $705K.”

I think this scenario is repeating itself all over the place.

...The entire Central Valley, which is the most productive farmland on earth, would be desert without intensive irrigation.

Originally the southern end was a huge lake/wetlands, which is why the early Spanish drew the area as an island on maps. Too bad LA sucked the place dry.

“The article contains this rather disturbing statement:
Through September, foreigners had provided 32 percent of the money raised in U.S. credit markets in 2004, up from 14 percent in 2000.”

Yeah, a little unsettling isn't it? What would happen to money rates if they pulled their funds? Wouldn't that pinch our credit spree in a big way?

Joseph E. Stiglitz

Did you mention Stiglitz? I like his work.

Historically, Socialist countries have allowed very little-to-no immigration. This continues today in much of Socialist-Democratic Europe.

Although Canada is quite pro-immigration compared to Sweden.

Yeah, a little unsettling isn’t it? What would happen to money rates if they pulled their funds? Wouldn’t that pinch our credit spree in a big way?

If they pull their funds (sell their dollar-denominate assets, which is our debt), then all hell would break loose. But they won't, at least not in any dramatic or rapid fashion. The current worries are that they'll simply stop buying as many dollar-assets, and they'll diverify more, probably into EUR and JPY assets.

I am certain of this for many reasons, but one above all others. Aside from the Europeans, who have their own unique (and quite structurally deep) fiscal problems, the Asians who hold a significant portion of US debt cannot afford the purchase-power-parity adjustments and rapid inflation that would ensue were they to start selling of dollars en masse.

Randy H, your comment about China's diversity is like saying America would be diverse, even if it was all white, because folks are different in the South, the Midwest, the West Coast, New England, etc. We all know that all countries have very diverse regions within them, some more so than others. I don't think anyone on this board is the type that assume all people of one color are the same (culturally, etc.)...well except maybe that East Cali dude. China and many other countries will never have anything near the multi-national-cultural diversity that America does. Is this good? Bad? I don't really care!
If anything, I'd rather concern myself with environmental practices in manufacturing leading to unfair business advantages in global economy.

Did you mention Stiglitz? I like his work.

I took a week long course taught by him at London Business School some time back. He's much more impressive in print, lol. But his main problem is that he's a genius. Genius types make for great academics and less than stellar pragmaticicsts. (And, I don't like his latest book all that much.)

Back on housing for a moment...

Noticed the yield curve squeeze is on in a big way following the Fed's quarter-point hike Tuesday:

1yr-10yr spread = .31
2yr-10yr spread = .23
(source: US Treasury Dept. tinyurl.com/79u6u)

We should be seeing inversion by the next rate hike in November --if not sooner.

No one's commented on this yet (possibly due to yesterday's 'incident'). More writing on the wall, or just the same shysters now trying to capitalize off bubble fears (or both)?:

HARM Says:

September 21st, 2005 at 11:04 am
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GotExit? LOL!

Perhaps an UnderWater seminar later? How about a real estate support group?