patrick.net

CNN Money. "Buffeted by high taxes, strict regulations and uncertain state budgets, a growing number of California companies are seeking friendlier business environments outside the Golden State". Tami Lubby

"Buffeted by high taxes, oppressive regulations, burdensome unions, predatory lawsuits and a hostile business environment, a growing number of United States Companies are seeking friendlier business environments outside the United States". Honest Abe

Well dah???

I've got and idea to solve the debt problem. Lets start taxing the 50% of Americans who don't pay any Federal Income Tax. Its time they pay their "fair share".

Read my post on this thread before you spew:

http://patrick.net/?p=858047#comment-748841

California has had more businesses every year, even through the recession. Some move out, others move in and others create businesses here.

Lol, I was waiting for that. What kind of businesses corntrollio? Why are all the biotech jobs going over seas? I don't want a jack-in-the-crack job. You've never answered that.

This is a bit old but I suspect since unemployment in this state is higher more people are getting the heck out of here:

http://www.housingbubblebust.com/UHaulIndex/California.html

Californians need jobs that pay them enough to live a decent life. So far, (well only the past 4 years or so) I've been lucky in that respect. Hope it continues but I sort of doubt it.

just_passing_through says

This is a bit old but I suspect since unemployment in this state is higher more people are getting the heck out of here:

http://www.housingbubblebust.com/UHaulIndex/California.html

You're basing that on UHaul stats from 2006? Thanks, but no thanks.

Why are all the biotech jobs going over seas?

Please be more specific. What is going overseas and in what numbers? How has growth been here?

Nomograph says

Not everyone can compete however, and the lesser players are forced out to places like AZ and TX where the talent pool is second and third tier.

Yes, there are many factors that apply here, and it's incorrect to focus only on one. Cost of living is high, taxes are high, business regulation is high. But the talent pool is massive, and you can't always get around that. If you want to relocate to Boise, you have to find the right number of scientists/tech people/etc there. In addition, the VC environment is more mature here, so startups have an easier time finding funding. The exact industry matters too, and it's hard to make blanket statements about this kind of thing.

As with many things, the answer is likely between the two extremes.

Nomograph says

California is a mecca for industry and is THE place for innovative and entrepreneurial businesses. Not everyone can compete however, and the lesser players are forced out to places like AZ and TX where the talent pool is second and third tier.

Great answer.

Something similar happens in NYC with financial firms and the companies that provide services to them. Except when they fail to run with the big dogs, they also run down to Alpharetta, GA as well as Houston or Hartford. Always with the excuse that it's better for the companies finances.

In reality, they failed to interest the big players like Citigroup or TIAA-CREF, and now have to pitch their services to customers like the First Bank of Okeefinokee and the Brotherhood of Armenian Retired Fishermen life insurance company.

Honest Abe says

I've got and idea to solve the debt problem. Lets start taxing the 50% of Americans who don't pay any Federal Income Tax. Its time they pay their "fair share".

I agree.

zzyzzx says

Honest Abe says

I've got and idea to solve the debt problem. Lets start taxing the 50% of Americans who don't pay any Federal Income Tax. Its time they pay their "fair share".

I agree.

I don't mean this personally, but I know you guys couldn't possibly be as intellectually impaired as you pretend to be.

Those people who you say don't pay income taxes, do pay PAYROLL TAXES (social security) and MEDICARE TAXES. Many of us actually understand that this goes in to the current years "budget" or actually offsetting what we say our current "budget defict" is.

In other words, our criminally low taxes on higher incomes, which are destroying our future, are essentially made possible by spending money that is collected for social security and medicare.

Now Troy or others might argue that we borrow that money and owe it to ourselves, which is true, but the way it is accounted for, within the current years budget, means that it is, for accounting purposes, treated like income taxes.

Again, it is only because of this accounting treatment that Bush's tax cuts occurred in the first place.

"We have a surplus. I think you know what to do with your money better than the government does" (not the exact quote of GWB)

(as opposed to Gore's "lock box" which would have changed the accounting, making these more like real pension and insurance funds)

I don't think that you guys are retarded, but by pretending to be retarded, even to yourself, you get to have the fun of believing whatever you want.

"Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee."

It must be fun.

marcus says

Those people who you say don't pay income taxes, do pay PAYROLL TAXES (social security) and MEDICARE TAXES. Many of us actually understand that this goes in to the current years "budget" or actually offsetting what we say our current "budget defict" is.

Right on.

And of course, they also pay sales taxes, licensing fees, state income taxes, etc.

People who make less than $25k (really should be $40k) have very little, if any disposable income, unless they are 20 years old and live with mom and dad. By taxing them, all you do is take dollars that would definitely be spent right away on clothes, food, etc. hurting the economy.

The idea that people who make well into the 6 figures are overtaxed is absurd.

Conservatives also like to forget that corporate taxes are paid on profits only, that Small Biz Owners have access to all kinds of tax breaks that employees can't get, and that profits do not necessarily translate into more employees.

What Liberals like to forget is that if there were no profit at any specific company then the business would collapse and there would be NO jobs and NO taxes paid of any kind.

Success and profit are not evil as you have been brainwashed to believe. Successful and profitable small business's are the driving force of America's economy. Liberals are doing everything in their power to kill the goose that lay's golden egg.'s...ugh.

The USA has the highest capital gain tax in the world. I guess that shows where the greed really lies, doesn't it?

"The USA has the highest capital gain tax in the world"

wat?

You have the temerity to imply that "Liberals" are reality-challenged?

Look in the mirror, pal.

Denmark
Share dividends and realized capital gains on shares are charged 28% to individuals of gains up to DKK 48,300 (2011-level, adjusted annually), and at 42% of gains above that.

Finland
The capital gains tax in Finland is 28% on realized capital income.

France
For residents, capital gains tax on the sale of financial instruments (shares, bonds, etc..) is a flat 32.3%

The German capital gains tax is 25% plus Solidaritätszuschlag (add-on tax initially introduced to finance the 5 eastern states of Germany - Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, Saxony, Saxony-Anhalt, Thuringia and Brandenburg - and the cost of the reunification, but later kept in order to finance all kind of public funded projects in whole Germany), plus Kirchensteuer (church tax), resulting in an effective tax rate of about 28%

Hungary
Since 1 September 2006 there is one flat tax rate (20%) on capital income.

Ireland, Republic of
Since 7 April 2009, there is a 25% tax on capital gains

Norway
The individual capital gains tax in Norway is 28%.

Poland
Since 2004 there is one flat tax rate (19%) on capital income.

Spain
For individuals from January 1, 2010 capital tax change in Spain. First EUR 6.000 will be taxed at 19%, on the other hand, gains from EUR 6.000 will be taxed at 21%

Sweden
The capital gains tax in Sweden is 30% on realized capital income.

United Kingdom
Individuals who are resident or ordinarily resident in the United Kingdom (and trustees of various trusts) are subject to a capital gains tax, charged at 18%.
For people paying more than the basic rate of income tax, this increased to 28% from midnight on June 23, 2010.

United States
Main article: Capital gains tax in the United States
In the United States, individuals and corporations pay income tax on the net total of all their capital gains just as they do on other sorts of income, but the tax rate for individuals is lower on "long-term capital gains," which are gains on assets that had been held for over one year before being sold. The tax rate on long-term gains was reduced in 2003 to 15%, or to 5% for individuals in the lowest two income tax brackets

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax

Honest Abe, lying as always.

Honest Abe says

What Liberals like to forget is that if there were no profit at any specific company then the business would collapse and there would be NO jobs and NO taxes paid of any kind.

Unless the tax rate is 100%, there will be profit.

Fallacy of the excluded middle: Either taxes have to be 100% or 0%. They can be 15%, 25%, 33%, or 40% just fine, too.

Profit isn't evil, but taxing unearned income at a rate less than actual, productive labor is truly wealth distribution - from the poor and middle to the rich.

Furthermore, unlike corporate and capital gains taxes which are paid only on profit, workers pay a tax on their wages largely without regard to their 'operating expenses' like rent or transportation to work.

This means that workers are taxed on basically, revenue (with a few writeoffs but the really good ones aren't obtainable by people making under 6 figures).

Of the 50% of the country that does not pay federal income tax, 75% of them make LESS than $20,000 a year. So youw ant to raise taxes on peopel all the way at the bottom while not raising taxes at the top? I have an idea: Let's get rid of the carried interest loophole. Why should John Paulson get away with only paying 15% in federal taxes when everyone else in his income bracket pays 36%?

I stand corrected. There are just five countries in the WHOLE WORLD with a higher capital gain tax than the U.S. (and all of them socialist). Denmark 45%, Sweden 30%, Finland 27%, Norway 26% and France 26%. The effective tax rate of Australia and the UK is lower than the U.S tax rate.

Germany and Switzerland impose NO tax whatsoever on long term capital gains.

Source: Australian Treasury "International Comparison of Australia's Taxes" April 2006, Page 208.

Housing Watcher, a progressive income tax is one of the 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto. How can we denounce communism yet practice it at the same time ??? You're not a liberal closet communist, are you?