patrick.net

if i remember correctly, this was long ago since i did anything with real estate so i dont remember exactly. But they are liable for any lies as long as you can prove it. If they actually have on the contract that they are going to provide you with x number of square feet of land improvement and they fail their part than the contract should include recourse. If it is not in the contract, you have nothing.

anything verbal or on the listing isn't something you can hold them accountable for. courts don't deal well with he said she said. Your best bet is just to talk to the owner and tell them square footage is understated and you'd like a price reduction, see if they will work with you.

bsmith says

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

If you have the actual data from the builder, you have a case.

If its a recent developement, 3-10 years, you may be able to get that data from archived websites pages.

http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

You can always present your own data, and factor market sq ft to what they are offering at.

"Re-course"? You already established the dishonesty. If you wanna do business with a confirmed liar, be careful what you wish for.

Lie to me once, shame on you. Lie to me twice, shame on ...

I doubt the seller is dishonest since all the houses with this same floorplan are advertised as such. It's being sold as 2300 SF which is correct if you take the footprint (42x26) and double it for two-stories; there's also a small bump-out above the garage. Problem is, the living room and entry-hall have a vaulted ceiling so that SF should only be counted once. So it seems like a 50 year-old mistake ... or fraud. I don't care which, I just don't want to pay the 'going rate' for a 2300 SF house which is really only 2000 SF.

My realtor advised me *NOT* to say anything to the seller as they'd almost certainly refuse to reduce their price -- they bought it as a '2300 SF' house, as did all their neighbors.

That's why I asked about my suggested 'recourse' -- to go into escrow and then sic the appraisal on them. If there's an appraisal which states 2000 SF, does that become 'public' info?
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I'm also considering calling a Redfin agent (even though I already have a realtor who's been working with us for a long time, and really deserves the commission). I would then visit the house with the Redfin agent and make a point of measuring the house and challenging the size. The goal would be to get them to post the problem on their Listing Notes.

SQ Ft gets you there, but after that, there's other things to consider.

My house was over stated they included the shed in the back, and the huge back patio. I'm still over 2K ft under roof. I don't mind, it suits my needs and I can build on the lot, or add on to the main house. The house will always list as more even though I only pay taxes on the under roof portion.

I wouldn't waste my time on recourse though, what will you gain?
The truth will come out in the bank appraisal anyway.

bsmith says

Is there any way I can get the seller to reduce their asking-price?

One suggestion (from my wife) is to make them an offer based on the current 'footage' and if/when they accept, then get the appraiser to re-measure. If they confirm my suspicion, would the new measurement become part of the 'public record' -- forcing them to either accept a lower price from us, or re-list at the correct square-footage?

There is absolutely nothing that stops you from making an offer based on 300 sqft less.

The new measurement or appraisal does not necessarily become part of the public record, although there may be a way for you to correct the tax record, particularly if you own the house. The owner could ask for a revaluation to lower the price, perhaps, based on the fact that some floorspace got double-counted.

robertoaribas says

I have seen two appraisers get different numbers by as much as 10% on the same exact home.

And, the listing is an advertisement, not part of the contract. Your own personal viewing of the home takes precedence, over the advertised square footage.

That isn't fully correct. Having a bad disclosure like this can be actionable in some circumstances and in some jurisdictions. Some realtors in some cities fear this and won't list the square footage, although usually not listing the square footage is an excuse for high price per square foot.

This risk could easily be mitigated by realtors -- "2300 sqft per builder" or "2300 sqft per tax records," or even something like "1600 sqft with 300 unwarranted sqft" (when applicable) with a "please confirm square footage measurement and permit status yourself." The issue is not whether the number or status is correct or not, but whether the disclosure is correct or not.

Price per square foot does help you compare things across similar houses, although it has limits. A 900 sqft house in an expensive area, for example, often has a much higher PPSF than a 2500 sqft house in the same area, because land value is so high. That doesn't mean PPSF is useless, however, especially when comparing against another floorplan, but you have to understand its limitations.

bsmith says

My realtor advised me *NOT* to say anything to the seller as they'd almost certainly refuse to reduce their price -- they bought it as a '2300 SF' house, as did all their neighbors.

Obviously. Your realtor wants a higher price, and anything that convinces the seller to lower the price is bad for the realtor.

bsmith says

I'm also considering calling a Redfin agent (even though I already have a realtor who's been working with us for a long time, and really deserves the commission). I would then visit the house with the Redfin agent and make a point of measuring the house and challenging the size. The goal would be to get them to post the problem on their Listing Notes.

Read your contract with your realtor carefully. Because your realtor brought you to this house, your realtor may have rights regardless of whether a subsequent agent takes you there.