patrick.net

Short answer: GLBT, pedifile, necrofile = deviant

Maybe Bap is a pedophile and wishes to be thought of as no worse than a homosexual ?

Here is a clue for your primitive small brain Bap. Does the term "2 consenting adults" mean anything to you ?

33

marcus 2011 Dec 21, 12:54am

FortWayne says

When a 12 year old tells you that she thinks she should be a bi because that's what is cool, without actually knowing what that even is

FortWayne has been watching too much porn.

Please show some examples of the media glamorizing being "bi."

34

Bap33 2011 Dec 21, 12:23pm

marcus,
if two consenting male adults agree to hold you down and rape you because they say they were born with that desire, does that make it right?

what if an adult male is born with the desire to never wait in line, but to just walk/drive past everyone and go first at all times? is that ok? It is not their fault they are born with a desire to not get in line and wait. Society is all F-ed up for dreaming up that crap, anyways! Right?

35

Bap33 2011 Dec 21, 12:25pm

marcus says

But if on the other hand they are living a hetrero lifestyle and secretly sneak out on occasion to blow a stranger in an airport restroom, now THAT is clearly a perverted deviant.

marcus,
best line ever.
Your point is good and well recieved. I'm just stirring poop. Merry Christmas.

36 ReasonNotFaith 2011 Dec 21, 2:02pm

marcus says

Does the term "2 consenting adults" mean anything to you ?

Radical Religious Zealots like Bap, Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, etc, are always trying to regulate other people's ability to have sex with each other...

So much for "small government"

if two consenting male adults agree to hold you down and rape you because they say they were born with that desire, does that make it right?

Are you incapable of doing simple math? That would be 3 adults, not two.

Two consenting adults should be able to do anything with each other that they choose... Or did the radical religious zealots take the idea of a right to the pursuit of happiness out of the constitution while we slept last night?

37 MattBayArea 2011 Dec 21, 2:16pm

marcus,
if two consenting male adults agree to hold you down and rape you because they say they were born with that desire, does that make it right?

Oh oh I want to respond to this one!
NO! It's not right. BUT if two consenting adult men agree to hold a woman down it's ok? Am I getting this right Bap?

We celebrate diversity not because it's *really* that great - diversity has caused plenty of conflict and we'd really be happier if we were all the same, not counting the terminal boredom. We celebrate diversity because the alternative .. as seen through history ... is ignorant intolerance of the unavoidable. The conflict caused by that is even worse. Please see WW2, the apartheid, slavery in the US, the persecution of religious minorities that pushed so many into the US in the first place, etc etc, the list just goes on and on.

Intolerance of diversity is a cancer that has eaten away at the progress of human kind since our time as a species began. Today, the societies that celebrate freedom also celebrate diversity because we (or some of us) understand and rightly fear the alternative. You may say it goes too far, but hopefully you can understand why having a cross-dressing flaming school teacher is far, far better than having a religious zealot who advocates violence in spite of his/her professed devotion to the words of christ ... against all the heathens, gays, and political opposition. If you can't, then be glad that you don't live as a minority (racial, religious, sexual - whatever) in an intolerant society. If you did, you would quickly learn a painful lesson about humility.

A lesson a few in this thread were never taught by their mothers!

There is no debate about this anymore. There is just a segment of our population that remains in blissful (or not so blissful) ignorance. People who wish the south seceded and kept slavery alive. People who wish that freedom of religion had never been part of our country. People who wish that gay-bashing (physically) was an accepted sport. People who wish that women did not have the right to vote - let alone leave the kitchen or bedroom without permission. For those people I have nothing but pity because they will likely go to their graves pitiful examples of why evolution is necessary - examples of why even a race as accomplished as ours should always strive to be better.

38

marcus 2011 Dec 21, 4:03pm

if two consenting male adults agree to hold you down and rape you because they say they were born with that desire, does that make it right?

I was obviously only talking about your comparison of homosexuality to bestiality, pedophilia and necrophilia. Homosexuality is the only one of these that includes 2 consenting adults that aren't harming anyone else or affecting anyone else for that matter.

I'm just stirring poop. Merry Christmas.

I know. Same to you.

39

elliemae 2011 Dec 22, 12:24am

yea .. I write pretty poorly...People like you are largely why we'll probably end up home schooling our children.

Must....hold.......tongue..... must........not.... make snarky.....comment about teaching a child when one isn't able to communicate effectively in the written word.........must....be.......strong........... awe, fuck it!

You might want to hire someone to homeschool on the English composition part of their education. Unless Mrs. BAP can formulate thoughts into sentences better than you. Just sayin'

The truth is that bullying does occur - but shouldn't blame the victim. If the kid wanted to come out, he would have. The school forced the issue. Being gay isn't a choice, it identity. No one would willingly choose to do something - to be something - so different from others.

40

EightBall 2011 Dec 22, 3:14am

Intolerance of diversity is a cancer that has eaten away at the progress of human kind since our time as a species began.

Just because someone is different doesn't make me want to tolerate their actions. We bemoan the fact that there isn't enough "tolerance" when in fact there isn't enough intolerance. Do you tolerate the actions of those in NAMBLA? How about BP screwing up and dumping oil in the gulf? Polygamy? After all, you are just adding a number to the "consenting adults". How about prostitution? Meth dealers? People exercising their constitutional right to bear arms? People who aren't like you because they are religious? Someone that lives in the midwest and a small town? How about those southerners that talk funny? Would it have been better for Cortez to have allowed the Aztecs to survive with their human sacrifice rituals in the name of diversity and tolerance? What are you intolerant of? Where is the rule book that says "this is ok and this is not ok"? If you had said rule book, why would I need to follow it? And would you force me to follow it if you had the means to do so? Isn't that tyranny and the exact thing you accuse the religious nutjobs of doing?

41

Bap33 2011 Dec 22, 3:41am

No one would willingly choose to do something - to be something - so different from others.

umm .... tattoo/pierce shops make lots of money from folks doing that very thing.

The kid should not be sexual at all at his age. Nobody mentioned that thus far. He will not know for sure if he digs guys until he kisses one, sees one naked, has a crush. Assuming it works for queers like it works for normal boys. I was obviously into chicks at 2 or 3 years old. But, the idea was not put into practice until 4th or 5th grade. Same should be true for queer guys.

This is all about private sex between adults? not!

That's the thing with the whole sodomite issue, they aint really happy to be able to bugger each other at home. In the 70's they wanted to make sure everyone knew that they wanted to bugger each other at home. In the 80's they wanted pity for AIDS, and blamed Reagan and Coop. In the 90's they wanted the military to accept them and schools to teach their activity as "normal". In the '00's they wanted to get married in church and have states recognize it. I am pretty sure, but I may be wrong, that the focus of the sodmoite nation is not just "two adults having sex in their own private setting". If that were the issue, then Prop 22 and Prop 8 would have never came up. Right?

So, what happens if an adult feels waiting for ones turn in line is a stupid thing?

42

marcus 2011 Dec 22, 3:58am

So, what happens if an adult feels waiting for ones turn in line is a stupid thing?

Being gay is no more of a choice than your retardation was (and still is) for you.

43

marcus 2011 Dec 22, 3:59am

I'm just stirring poop

That's what he said.

44

marcus 2011 Dec 22, 4:07am

That's the thing with the whole sodomite issue, they aint really happy to be able to bugger each other at home........................

So this group that is what, maybe 10 to 12% of the population, who has
pushed the envelope for a few decades, getting a lot of attention, but also now finally fairly close to acceptance, gets under your skin ? We get it.

And since they are only 10% its easy for your type to take issue with them, and how they don't fit your idea of how people should behave. Everyone should be more like you, of course. I think more people should be like me. Wow, I think I'm having a breakthrough.

By the time you're dead and gone, this issue will be about as interesting as black people being able to drink out of our water fountains, or woman being allowed to vote.

Righteous change is painful for the dimbulbs.

45

Bap33 2011 Dec 22, 4:45am

@marcus,
God's answer to the water fountain/voting issue was the Good Sumeritan, I think. Besides God said to love your neighbor and such, so those issues should have never existed in a Christian based society.

God's answer to male human sodomite activity is very easy to read. The percentage of deviant humans on the planet seems to be constant over human history. Would you agree? Not just sodomites or other sexual based differences, but liars, artists, murderers, singers, whores ... I think the percentage of the total for each sub-group of humans has been pretty flat since Noah.

My point is, it would appear that some actions and behaviors, while common in humans, are not supposed to be accepted by society. Society has rules, like waiting ones turn in line, that are not popular with some, but we still raise our kids with that rule so they will fit in and function in society. I'm not sure why the few, who have been made, or choose to be, different, don't understand that it is them who are different, and that they should not expect society to change to make the odd seem common.

46

marcus 2011 Dec 22, 5:20am

I guarantee thare were many good Christian rednecks in the south that went to their grave in say the 60s or 70s kicking and screaming over the rights given to african americans who they used much convoluted "logic" to argue were subhuman.

The same would be true of many older chauvinist idiots who died in the decades after women go t the vote.

These are just two easy examples, where we see nobody now questions these things except possibly the occasional neonazi.

Your rules, which you take to be God's rules are arbitrarily chosen. There are many "rules" from the bible that even you would not think of following. Others have made the point that different cultures over the centuries have had vastly different views of homosexuality. I think you confuse the effects of your authoritarian personality, your difficulty with cultural change, and possibly some other personality factors with some sort of absolute good that you have access to, but which much of the population, especially the more educated and or younger members do not.

47 MattBayArea 2011 Dec 22, 7:06am

Just because someone is different doesn't make me want to tolerate their actions.

No, you don't get it - this strawman illustrates your ignorance. You don't tolerate someone *because* they are different ... you tolerate them because their differences are not harming people. Two gay people want to wear rings and say they're married? It doesn't harm you. An adult male wants to rape a young boy? That has a victim - don't tolerate it.

Do you tolerate the actions of those in NAMBLA?

No. As for the topic of the age of consent I don't pretend to have any answers. I think our current system (~18 in most places) makes some sense. I would not be angry today if people had let a 25 year old woman have sex with me when I was 15, though ... maybe our current laws need refinement, but who said anything about scrapping them?

How about BP screwing up and dumping oil in the gulf?

Is there a victim here? Seems quite a bit different from what I was talking about. Don't get me wrong - I'm not for 'all religions and all religious practices'. Some should not be tolerated and I think it's pretty clear which - cultures that oppress women, for instance, should not be ignored in the name of tolerance.EightBall says

Polygamy? After all, you are just adding a number to the "consenting adults".

Is there something fundamentally wrong with polygamy? If my wife was ok with me having another woman in the equation, and I treated them both well, then what's wrong with it? If, on the other hand, you're talking about societies that don't allow girls to get an education and teach them that the only option they have in life is to be the subservient wife of a man, that's a problem (even if the man only has one such wife slave).EightBall says

People exercising their constitutional right to bear arms? People who aren't like you because they are religious? Someone that lives in the midwest and a small town? How about those southerners that talk funny?

Now you're just showing your crazy side. Obviously bearing a gun - and not using it recklessly - is not harming anyone. Why would I be against that? And why anyone argue that we should not tolerate small town folk?
Of course, some accents are bad enough that we should persecute those people. Kidding.

Would it have been better for Cortez to have allowed the Aztecs to survive with their human sacrifice rituals in the name of diversity and tolerance?

Fun facts for the history intolerant:
1) Cortez did not act out of noble intentions - at all.
2) Cortez didn't have the option of letting them survive. His mere presence ensured their destruction. You see, it was disease that wiped out the natives, not superior military might. Lacking disease, things would have gone very differently, at least until european armies arrived en masse.

What are you intolerant of? Where is the rule book that says "this is ok and this is not ok"?

There is no universal rule book. Just the one written by the present powers that be. In the past, the rule book was pretty shitty, but it's getting better. No one really cares if people who like to gay bash and enslave black people and dictate what religious beliefs people have to say about the new rules. No one cares about the people who whine about how society is progressing toward a more tolerant future. Whine all you want. People like you oppressed religious groups, sexual groups, races, etc, and did not care one whit about what is noblest, let alone about how the oppressed felt.

The negative feedback that certain types of intolerance creates grows as communication and food production technologies advance. More people connected, living in more denser societies, make it more important that society have ground rules preventing unnecessary intolerance. It is not necessary that everyone call their 'god' by the same name, so we scrapped that intolerance. It is not necessary that only different-sex pairs of humans wear gold bans, so we're in the process of scrapping that (give it time, you will see where things are headed). Doing these things - and others, like slavery - hinders progress. It creates tension and strife ... kills off otherwise productive minds. And so the societies that embrace this sort of intolerance will stagnate relative to tolerant nations. Look at the middle east and you'll see what I mean.

48

TPB 2011 Dec 22, 7:43am

The school didn't come in between the parent and their child when they provided information about the child to their parent.

It is the parent that is 100% responsible for their children, not the school. The parent makes decisions about what is important, and not important when it comes to their children, not the school.

OH Goody! I just love Childless Assholes like you.
Every thing is the Parents responsibility 100% until you fucksticks want to inject you distorted parenting views on them.
What's the matter Daddy didn't love you?

If it's the Parents responsibility then what in the fuck are they outing the Kid the parents for? They should sue the School district for undue stress. Get a good lawyer and have the kid say he's not Gay(whether he is or not), and sue those Bastards for county tax role for the year.

Then use those Millions to send the kid to the Michelle Bachman Gayhab.

You people take the cake, the parents responisblity blah blah blah. But God forbid the parents use tough love on a kid going down the wrong path, then Oh that's child abuse. Or when the parents intervene with who their Kids keep company with. Then you assholes are all like "Oh well you can't do that... You have to learn tolerance... blah blah blah"

You've got a millions words of wisdom for Ham and eggers trying to raise their kids, with the same conservative values they were raised with in a urban or suburban environment.
Of course you dole out your advice from behind the Gate of your exclusive community and you chauffeur your kid to the exclusive magnet school god forbid your Jr. is going to learn bad habits from those low life cretins.

I bet you bitch about babies crying in a restaurant too, don't you?

49 Danaseb 2011 Dec 22, 7:52am

lol that was a funny one, but one a serious note most childless people have absolutely no desire to preach to parents, specially the large percentage who are irresponsible fucks. Throughout history has a crappy parent ever stopped being such an asshole?

Tax fueled public schools are there so the schools can do their best for the kids consistently, at least thats the idea. Good thing dumb bigoted assholes are usually too lazy and cheap to home school or send their kids to private schools.

50

EightBall 2011 Dec 22, 9:03am

Just because someone is different doesn't make me want to tolerate their actions.

No, you don't get it - this strawman illustrates your ignorance. You don't tolerate someone *because* they are different ... you tolerate them because their differences are not harming people.

This illustrates your ignorance. You tolerate people because they are human. You don't tolerate bad/illogical/harmful behavior. Now you are saying I am intolerant of people *because* they are different? No, I'm intolerant of what they do and there is nothing wrong with that. You do the same thing but we differ on what is right and wrong. Don't put words in my mouth just so you can make a point and act high-and-mighty.

Fun facts for the history intolerant:
1) Cortez did not act out of noble intentions - at all.
2) Cortez didn't have the option of letting them survive. His mere presence ensured their destruction. You see, it was disease that wiped out the natives, not superior military might. Lacking disease, things would have gone very differently, at least until european armies arrived en masse.

Nice. You didn't answer the question. I know the answer - of course you wouldn't tolerate human sacrifice.

51 MattBayArea 2011 Dec 22, 10:03am

Eightball, reread your original response to my comment. You are the one putting words in people's mouths. You read my post and accused me of supporting NAMBLA and oil spills. At least, that's how it seems to me. What exactly is your point? You want to bash gay people? Where do YOU draw the line? I made it clear where I draw the line. I tolerate behavior that does not harm other people, in general.

52

Bap33 2011 Dec 22, 10:41am

I tolerate behavior that does not harm other people, in general.

sir, if I may, you're not able to take the pro-deviant position (no pun) and then draw the line at the general harming of other people. If a person feels they need to protect their child/family/company/nation from the effects of deviant behavior, PDA's, fill-in-blank, then they are being harmed by your acceptance of deviant behavior. Right? Maybe you only draw a line at not harming deviant/progressive/liberal/weird-o/anti-Americans, but you have no such line for the feelings of those who have old fashioned morals and/or a belief in God.... like me. Is that possible?

Once again, cutting in line, does it cross your line of acceptable behavior?

53 MattBayArea 2011 Dec 22, 12:49pm

Protect their children from what? From seeing 'deviant' behavior? Personally, I find it offensive when people preach near children - I would not want my children exposed to such blatant falsehoods. I don't want someone telling my children that if they don't do a bunch of crazy rituals with potential pedophiles they'll go to hell for eternity.

So, if we start to force gay people to hide their differences - even though the differences do not physically harm others ... then we should also force religious people to practice their religion in private. Religious marriages should be outlawed, too.

The place I draw the line is where there is harm done. Seeing something you disagree with is not harming you. Having something done to you against your will is - but seeing is not doing.

Let me ask you plainly, Bap, where you draw the line. Religious buildings and especially religious ceremonies offend me to the core. People are LIED to, from my perspective, and while you may not agree with me about one religion, surely you will agree with me about another. You are offended by gay people and worried that seeing gay people will influence your children. I'm worried that religious people will influence my children with their lies. Again, you may not agree about one religion, but you surely agree about all others.

There are so many people who are gay and would rather not be (all the people in the closet, for instance). Why can't they just change? People who dont close themselves off from the gay community, people who actually know gay people, know that it's not a choice. It's how you're born, whether it's genetics or hormones in the womb or something else along those lines. The chances of someone turning gay from seeing gay people is practically nonexistent. Nonexistent if you discount people who are in the closet.
On the other hand, being influenced by powerful, frightening religious rhetoric promising eternal pain if you don't believe, can influence people. In fact, it's such a powerful influence that most people who grow up in a religious household end up religious... no, not religious, they grow up with the SPECIFIC religion they were indoctrinated with. However you look at it, most of the world believes in outright lies, and children are clearly susceptible to these lies. They are also clearly nowhere near as susceptible to the gay influence - if at all.

Sorry for beating the dead horse into the ground, but I'm absolutely sure. We can argue about this all day - and at the end of the day you may close your mind to my arguments but you can't beat them. Try to preach to a muslim ... no matter how well you argue the point, their faith prevents them from believing you. Even if you had logical arguments (there aren't any for believing in the Christian god, as I assume you do), you could not win. That's how you treat me in these religious debates.
You can't win. You can't give someone faith unless they want it. As much as you glorify your faith, remember what faith is - it's the belief in something you can't prove. If you could prove it, it'd be science.

Sorry if I'm assuming too much about you with the faith and christianity stuff. I strayed a bit off topic here.

54 MattBayArea 2011 Dec 22, 12:52pm

As for cutting in line, it's obvious not a nice thing to do. I don't think it's a big deal, either. Where do you stand on cutting in line? And what's at the front of the line? I guess that kind of matters, too.

55

Bap33 2011 Dec 22, 2:21pm

murderers and theifs and liars are just born that way too. Some control it. Others go to prison for not controling it. Why is it fair to send a thief to prison for life when nobody was harmed and he was just born that way?

Those pediphiles you mention, they were born that way.

Waiting in line: somthing so simple and so much a sign of a functioning advanced society, and you can not answer? You know for sure that accepting queers-as-normal is super-cool and an absolute must ... but, knowing to wait your turn and form a line is just TOO friggin deep to get your mind around? Really? Come on man, be honest for just a little bit.

By the way, I don't think I put any personal opinion of deviant behavior in my posts - meaning, I don't recall condeming all sodmite males to Hell fire. Maybe I missed it? Anyways, I know a few sodomites, I have one in my family. I know a few liesbians, and a few liberals. Does that make my questions easier to answer? Am I in the club now? I don't care to know what anyone that is not super hot is doing in the sack ... do not want to know! So, go get it on, and nobody knows ... oh, but wait, THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!! The list of demands from the Deviant Nation have increased at a steady rate. Would you agree?

You say "you can't win" (I cant win). I laugh at that, aloud. I assure you that this is not a "winner, loser" issue. The issue is this: One side has rules, limits, and morals that are ideals and the people are idealistic. On the other side is a group with lots of shades of gray, realitivism, and a fear of personal accountability. What that results in is the one side, the one with ideals, is constantly slammed by the moraless side for not being as perfect as their ideals. The moraless side then excuses all behavior, other than the behavior of being moralistic, which they feel is inexcusable. (yes, re-read your post and you will find that you are open to anything BUT a moralistic society). And so, without morals, mores, rules, habits, customs ... with only shades of gray ... where is the line and why should anyone wait behind anyone else? Simple.

56 ReasonNotFaith 2011 Dec 22, 3:55pm

The truth is that bullying does occur - but shouldn't blame the victim.

You keep saying don't blame the victim.... Would you mind telling me who is blaming the victim?

Do you tolerate the actions of those in NAMBLA?

Why do you continue to compare illegal activities, with legal activities? Homsexuality is not equal to bestiality. Homosexuality is not equal to pedophelia. As your love, herman cain would say, those are apples and oranges.

Would it have been better for Cortez to have allowed the Aztecs to survive with their human sacrifice rituals in the name of diversity and tolerance?

the concept of tolerance doesn't require you to tolerate someone violating someone else's civil rights. it requires you to tolerate, or at least be indifferent to someone else pursuing their own idea of liberty and happiness, as long as they aren't violating anyone else's rights. Two men having sex in the privacy of their own home has nothing to do with you, and does not affect you. Two men getting married and spending their life together has nothing to do with you and does not affect you. Ron Paul rolling a joint and having himself a smoke, does not have anything to do with you and does not affect you. Bill Clinton, paying a prostitute to come to his hotel room and blow him does not have anything to do with you and does not affect you.

I can't believe there are Americans out there who don't understand the concept of allowing others the freedom of the pursuit of happiness. I grew up believing that was part of what makes us American. I grew up to learn that's a fairy tale, the truth is the GOP and their minions insist on their ability to pursue happiness, and require conformity from everyone else.

In the 80's they wanted pity for AIDS, and blamed Reagan and Coop. In the 90's they wanted the military to accept them and schools to teach their activity as "normal". In the '00's they wanted to get married in church and have states recognize it.

you're a liar, that's all there is to it.

Is there something fundamentally wrong with polygamy?

There's nothing at all wrong with it.

Besides God said to love your neighbor and such, so those issues should have never existed in a Christian based society.

Oh, right, that explains why you love gay people and why you're so kind of them. Wow, you do practice your religion like it's really important to you.....

The GOP says

I just love Childless Assholes like you.

I'm a childless asshole? You should tell my kids that, I don't think they got the memo.... Gees, how do you know so much about me??

The GOP says

But God forbid the parents use tough love on a kid going down the wrong path, then Oh that's child abuse

I've never said that. Why are you suggesting that's my opinion... Oh yeah, I don't have kids... you actually have no idea what you're talking about... that explains it.

I don't think I put any personal opinion of deviant behavior in my posts

Are you kidding? Your posts drip with vile hatred and vitriol.

One side has rules, limits, and morals that are ideals and the people are idealistic. On the other side is a group with lots of shades of gray, realitivism, and a fear of personal accountability.

What you mean is one side attempts to impose it's own moral, lifestyle, and religious choices onto the other group, while the other group just wants to be able to enjoy the rights provided to all groups by the U.S. Constitution. The Constitution happens to be something the first group claims to embrace, while they shit all over it by doing everything they can by denying group 2 their civil liberties.

57 MattBayArea 2011 Dec 22, 5:39pm

somthing so simple and so much a sign of a functioning advanced society, and you can not answer? You know for sure that accepting queers-as-normal is super-cool and an absolute must

I did answer it, Bap. I imagine you were responding to my first post though and didn't see it, but just so we're clear - I stand in my place in lines and don't like cutters.

Cutting in line is wrong and should be punished with cold stares or chastising comments.

Being gay is just whatever - who really cares aside from other gay people and homophobes ... and gay homophobes who are in the closet.

Also ... you don't think anyone is harmed by stealing? I do. I'm sure you do too. I'm going to assume you were just tired and didn't think that out ... I guess the alternative is that you're being intellectually dishonest because you think it will help you win an argument on the internet.

Let me take a different approach to it. I'm not saying you have to approve of gays - I don't have to approve of christians. But I do have to tolerate it. And so do you - if you don't, there are laws in place to teach you a lesson that your mother should have when you were a kid. Or that jesus should have when you were at church. Sorry if I'm assuming too much about your religion with the Jesus comment.

58

marcus 2011 Dec 23, 12:53am

One side has rules, limits, and morals that are ideals and the people are idealistic. On the other side is a group with lots of shades of gray, realitivism, and a fear of personal accountability. What that results in is the one side, the one with ideals, is constantly slammed by the moraless side for not being as perfect as their ideals. The moraless side then excuses all behavior, other than the behavior of being moralistic, which they feel is inexcusable. (yes, re-read your post and you will find that you are open to anything BUT a moralistic society). And so, without morals, mores, rules, habits, customs ... with only shades of gray ... where is the line and why should anyone wait behind anyone else? Simple.

YOu can't really be serious. Cutting in line, stealing these are behaviors that adversely affect others. What about the golden rule ?

You have even bought the absolute total BS that "your side" has the morals, and the "other side," I'm assuming you're referring to those who aren't right wing fundamentalist Christians don't.

There is no answer to your idiotic claims.

It should be instructive though, that corruption and crony capitalism have increased since republicans took the "moral majority" or "family values" bag of lies under their tent. Republicans were far more respectable and far more ethical with clear values before Reagan.

Again, you are so fricking gullible. It's truly hard to fathom.

59

marcus 2011 Dec 23, 1:13am

By the way, the ultimate in relativist arguments can be seen with our Iraq war. We lied to justify an invasion, killing hundreds of thousands. Why ?

I'm not saying that there weren't many democrats that went along. What I am saying is that if anything republicans (so called neoconservatives) argued for this even more. Total imperialist fantasy.

So you can use your holier than thou arguments to split hairs about things that arent't going to change, such as drug use, abortion, homosexuality. Or because it makes you feel good to believe the bs that decay in our country is the fault of liberals. (this is all so fricking transparent).

Look to the really big decisions that really matter, such our war actions or how we treat the poor and helpless, if you want to see which "side" has the moral high ground.

60

Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq 2011 Dec 23, 3:13am

Why do you continue to compare illegal activities, with legal activities? Homsexuality is not equal to bestiality. Homosexuality is not equal to pedophelia. As your love, herman cain would say, those are apples and oranges.

Homosexuality is illegal in some states. As for bestiality who's to say this is any worse than homosexuality? Many penetrating studies were conducted by the Confederacy in the 1800s that proved animals loved to fuck and being fucked by slack-jawed hillbillies. Why deny beasts of this carnal pleasure? We can murder them and eat them but not stimulate them with pleasure?

God really only gives a shit if you eat ham or wear mixed thread clothing. Do either of those and you go straight to hell.

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elliemae 2011 Dec 24, 2:45am

The kid should not be sexual at all at his age. Nobody mentioned that thus far. He will not know for sure if he digs guys until he kisses one, sees one naked, has a crush. Assuming it works for queers like it works for normal boys. I was obviously into chicks at 2 or 3 years old. But, the idea was not put into practice until 4th or 5th grade. Same should be true for queer guys.

Humans are sexual beings. Babies play with their genitals as soon as they can reach them and children masturbate at early ages. We indoctrinate them to our societal rules, that boys who are promiscuous are "studs" and girls who are promiscuous are "sluts." That it's not a positive feminine trait to want sex and be sexually active, ladies should be demur and (yes, still happening in the 2000's) subservient to the man's desires.

If I'd known how much sex I'd get as an adult, I'd have been a slut in high school. And been proud of it. But I digress.

Children know what intrigues them sexually at a young age. Little girls dream of their weddings and have Barbie & Ken (the dickless wonder) doing the deed in their dream condo. They know that they're heterosexual or homosexual at young ages, but that doesn't mean that they're sexually active. Just because we don't act on our sexual desires until we're in our adolescence, it doesn't mean that we don't know our sexual identity. One can be gay without ever having sex, and I'm sorry that you have to learn this on Christmas eve on an internet forum.

God's answer to the water fountain/voting issue was the Good Sumeritan, I think. Besides God said to love your neighbor and such, so those issues should have never existed in a Christian based society.

God's answer? It was man who said that God said it. You base your belief system on years of tradition following a book that some guy said God wrote. There has never been a case of someone claiming God put a pen to paper and wrote the bible. But - if God had wanted to streamline the process, he'd have written the entire thing on computers. He's omnipotent, he could've done it.

George Carlin: "Can God make a rock so big.. even He can't lift it?"

Your God made people, not the rules the people created. People are tall, short, fat, thin, smart, stupid, gay, straight, bi, healthy, sick, black, oriental, caucasian, and mixed races.

Lack of Reason, you need to home school your children to shun everyone who is different from them and to consider themselves superior. God forbid one of them turns out to be gay - but if he/she is, he will be the one to tell you and won't be forced to do so by some educator who stepped far beyond the limits.

You keep saying don't blame the victim.... Would you mind telling me who is blaming the victim?

The child who was the victim was deemed to have been responsible for the bullying by being gay. Posters who say:

Bullying is done to anyone with something so different about them that a large percentage of the rest of the group notices the difference.

No, oftentimes bullying is done to kids for no reason.

FortWayne says

Being homosexual is bad because our liberal media celebrates it, and that corrupts the minds of our youth.

The child is bad?

and so on. The child was outed by an educator because a bully harassed him for being gay. children are harassed for wearing cheap clothes or living in a crappy area or the way they wear their hair. Children are bullied for no reason or for a reason, but it doesn't matter. It's blaming the victim if the child is accused of being responsible for the bully's behavior.

Gay people are people too. They're good, they're bad, they're moral or immoral, they're productive members of society or realtors... their sexual orientation is secondary to all that but it's a part of them nonetheless.

Any person should have the opportunity to tell their family, or not tell their family, their personal information. Not the school system.

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elliemae 2011 Dec 24, 2:46am

I'm putting away my soapbox on this issue, it's harder to climb up and down on it as the thread goes on - and ya'll just don't get it.

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marcus 2011 Dec 24, 3:53am

Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq says

oftentimes bullying is done to kids for no reason

True. Just as roughly one out of five kids have characterisitics that they might be teased or bullied for ( effeminate, weak, awkward, nerdy, obese or whatever ), there is only maybe 1 out of 10 kids that are the evil type with some sad psychological need to torment them.

Yes, there are another 40 to 50% of kids who will laugh at the bullying and even acknowledge some kind of alpha status to the bully, even if they don't like him or her. Taken together, the 1 in 10 bully (or whatever it is) combined with the tolerance of bullying by others, may make it seem to your average dimbulb (bap or fort wayne) like it's the victims fault. But Ellie's right, it's not. There's a known pathology to bullying and the bullies are always the ones that make it happen.

64 ReasonNotFaith 2011 Dec 24, 4:20am

Homosexuality is illegal in some states.

Homosexuality is not illegal in ANY state. Review the supreme court case, Lawrence vs. Texas.

Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq says

As for bestiality who's to say this is any worse than homosexuality?

Because animals and young children are unable to consent. That's what makes it worse. Will you please stop comparing consensual behavior, with non-consensual behavior? There is no comparison between the two.

you need to home school your children to shun everyone who is different from them and to consider themselves superior.

Please note: That is not why everyone decides to home school their children.

The child who was the victim was deemed to have been responsible for the bullying by being gay.

I have not seen anyone in this forum blame the child for being bullied. Bap33's comments about children being bullied because they are different didn't blame them for being different. He did blame parents for sending their kids to school dressed a certain way, which I don't agree with.

The fact is he's right in that regard. Children bully other children who are different. That's the way it is. No blame being assigned in that statement, it's simply an observation of what is.

The child is bad?

He wasn't saying the child is bad, he was saying bad people are corrupting the child, which I don't agree with btw. I just hate to see people argue strawmen, or twist someone else's argument into a strawman.

Any person should have the opportunity to tell their family, or not tell their family, their personal information. Not the school system.

The school system should not withhold any information about a persons child from them. Period. Let me catch a school administrator do that to me. I'll burn that asshole down.

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marcus 2011 Dec 24, 11:22am

Will you please stop comparing consensual behavior, with non-consensual behavior?

Silly RNF, taking HM seriously. You're obviously new here, but you must have read a few of his comments before, enough to know better. Btw, I think it's widely believed that HM another character of the same guy that does ApocalypseFuck.

E.g. http://patrick.net/?p=1205364

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marcus 2011 Dec 24, 11:27am

Bap33's comments about children being bullied because they are different didn't blame them for being different.

wtf ?

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elliemae 2011 Dec 24, 1:14pm

elliemae says

you need to home school your children to shun everyone who is different from them and to consider themselves superior.

Less than Reason replied: Please note: That is not why everyone decides to home school their children.

No, but it's a good reason why you should. Merry Christmas.

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Bap33 2011 Dec 24, 1:23pm

I must say, RNF got it right, as far as my point. And so did ellie, when she said it is not the targets fault, per se. In a nut shell, there is a few parts that are needed for bullying to take place. A victim/target, a bully, and opritunity.

What makes a target a target is a long long list, but when it comes to teenage boys the list has some top tens. I bet teenage girls have a top ten list too, and I also bet the social and economic demographic of either group changes some of the top ten.

In my life experience the MALE bully kid was the spoiled ass brat, that would sneak and lie and steal and vandalize and was just a regular pain in the ass at all times. The FEMALE bully was popular, pretty, but kinda stupid.

The addition of a crowd is not always part of making this a problem. A bully does damage in private too.

If an entire school of 1,200 was only made up of 15 year old soft/queer/homo males and there was not one other "type" of male in the school, there would still be a few that are bullys and a few that are targets. Not a doubt about it. Does that help you see into the mind of Bap a little bit? I hope so.

Have a very Merry Christmas. Love your kids. Hug your spouse. Pet your dog. And thank (someone other than yourself) for the blessed life we all get to enjoy!! You guys are great. Gnite.

69 ReasonNotFaith 2011 Dec 24, 1:44pm