patrick.net

Because building cars involves different types of jobs. Germans keep design, R&D, engineering jobs as well as production of critical parts to themselves, while moving asssembly lines etc jobs to the near third world places like Eastern Europe and poor places in US.

No wonder jobs kept in pay much more.

Makes perfect sense.

michaelsch says

Because building cars involves different types of jobs. Germans keep design, R&D, engineering jobs as well as production of critical parts to themselves, while moving asssembly lines etc jobs to the near third world places like Eastern Europe and poor places in US.

No wonder jobs kept in pay much more.

Makes perfect sense.

That is simply not true. The Germans build a substantial number of their cars in Germany. Volkswagen actually has a super modern factory in Germany complete with a parking garage where the cars park themselves through conveyor belts and automated lifts.

Even GM builds cars in Germany under the Opel division.

Well, given that your typical BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Rolls Royce ( Owned by BMW), Bentley, Bugatti and Lamborghini, ( All owned By Volkswagen) cost a lot more ( with the exception of VW) than your typical Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, or Honda product, it would make sense that they can pay their workers more.

Actually, Honda has 2 factories in Ohio, which is not right to work.

Oh, and all those car factories in right to work states are HEAVILY subsidized by those state govts. So the workers get peanuts in wages and benefits while the companies get welfare.

shrekgrinch says

And last, even in Germany they have preferred to move manufacturing out of Germany to lower-wage countries

No, not really. The overwhelming maority of German cars are made in Germany.

When German companies do build car factories in low wage countires, like China and India, those cars are only sold to the people in those countires. They don't export them to the U.S. and Europe.

shrekgrinch says

Good for them. If they were a US firm, their board would be sued for violating their fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders (or simply replaced in a hostile takeover).

Well, I for one am glad that Honda does not look for the cheapest labor possible and pays fairily. Maybe that is why Hondas or 10 times more reliable then German cars built in right to work states.

shrekgrinch says

If we just imported Mercedes-Benz cars from Germany,

Where do you live? We do that now. Not all Merceds are built in the U.S. The G Class is made in Austria. And the E Class is made in Germany.

HousingWatcher says

When German companies do build car factories in low wage countires, like China and India, those cars are only sold to the people in those countires. They don't export them to the U.S. and Europ

In the news last week China decided to slap import tariffs on US-manufactured cars- some of which includes BMW's made in the USA. So we do in fact export German cars from the US.

HousingWatcher says

Well, I for one am glad that Honda does not look for the cheapest labor possible and pays fairily. Maybe that is why Hondas or 10 times more reliable then German cars built in right to work states.

Not sure if whether its location or place of manufacture that is key here seeing as how quite a few of the German brands have either poor or mediocre reliability ratings. VW consistently hugs the bottom wrung of these lists.

HousingWatcher says

Even GM builds cars in Germany under the Opel division.

And they were imported under the Saturn name for awhile.

You also have to remember a side thing...German wages are still much lower in the former east. Take any country and divide it by two for 45 years and then unify it and see how production shifts.

On the same note it happened in the USA as factories moved from north to south.

Also if a union hardly goes on strike then where's the power in it? I'm not saying they should but if they go years and years without going on it then they can get groupthink and just go along with anything the company says. That's the same that happened to the UAW in the early 80's.

Also why is Damiler doing bad?
http://www.google.com/finance?q=dai
As an investment Ford is doing better (down 5% vs 15%)

BMW appears to be a LLC but volkswagon is sky high..why the heck is the pe so low though?
http://www.google.com/finance?q=PINK%3AVLKAY

Funny that edvard mentions BMW in China. There's a company called BYD which can sometimes get confused there.

Here's a tad of trivia. Currency values can go into flux and often times make it nearly impossible to sell outside of a given zone. DeLorean was going to make his plant in Puerto Rico but chose Belfast n ireland instead. Well the pound surged upward and instead of selling a car for $12,500 they had to sell it for about $18,000. Factor in some addition sales taxes and the early 80's recession and it was a TKO.

On the same note the yen is pretty damn high. It's at a 11 year high against the Euro so Toyota, Honda and Nissan are going to have a hard time being profitable in Europe. Meanwhile the companies you mentioned are going to have sales increase significantly there.

Look what the UK Top Gear guys said about the UK Rolls Royce and Germany ...

"Pathetic" see 1:45-3:30... We dont make this stuff any more...

http://www.youtube.com/embed/_u3I-_ZDzYk

mdovell says

Here's a tad of trivia. Currency values can go into flux and often times make it nearly impossible to sell outside of a given zone.

FX hedges contracts makes any flux FX mute and reduce or eliminate all potential FX losses. Done every day on the currency exchange.

HousingWatcher says

German autoworkers have the right to strike, but as Horst Mund, head of the International Department of IG Metall explained to Remapping Debate, they “hardly use it, because there is an elaborate system of conflict resolution that regularly is used to come to some sort of compromise that is acceptable to all parties.”

In the case of the US Auto Unions back in the 70s and 80s, which completely ignored the Japanese industrial treat, they never compromised and had the Auto Industry roll over in defeat which led to inflated costs and a break down in the ability to compete with imports.

shrekgrinch says

Those little Fiat 500s cost $15k-22k because they get don't get manufactured here, either. What a rip-off

Its actually made in Dundee, Michigan.

Fiat 500
Manufacturer Fiat Chrysler
Production 2007-present
Assembly Tychy, Poland Toluca, Mexico

The North American version built in Toluca, Mexico, has same the trim levels as European 500: Pop, Lounge and Sport. The American version has some exterior differences compared to European version: a more rounded centre grille and a plastic lip that wraps onto the bottom of the spoiler and a reflector on the wheel arch edge, mostly to meet safety regulations.

The American Sport version has a 1.4 litre Multiair engine, which is manufactured at Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance in Dundee, Michigan, United States.

thomas.wong1986 says

The American Sport version has a 1.4 litre Multiair engine, which is manufactured at Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance in Dundee, Michigan, United States.

Indeed a lot of the American fiats are made in the US. I've also heard the upcoming Dodge Dart-based off of an Alpha Romeo- will also be built here.

edvard2 says

Dodge Dart-based off of an Alpha Romeo-

Will be interesting to see...

edvard2 says

So we do in fact export German cars from the US.

All BMW X3s are actually made in the U.S. So if you buy an X3 in Germany, your car will have been made in the U.S. A German car made in the U.S. Go figure.

Not all German cars are made or even sold in the U.S., however. In Europe, Mercedes Benz sells a minivan called the Viano, but you cannot buy it in the U.S. I'm not sure why. I think if they sold it here, thry could steal a lot of minivan sales form Honda and Toyota.

HousingWatcher says

but you cannot buy it in the U.S. I'm not sure why. I think if they sold it here, thry could steal a lot of minivan sales form Honda and Toyota.

One look at that van and I seriously doubt they would steal much business from the other minivan makers. Secondly, bringing such a 'pedestrian' Mercedes here would dilute their "exclusive", luxurious image.

Yeah, but some Mercedes could sell here if they imported to the U.S., like the B Class:

The Citroen C6 is also another cool car:

The MErcedes Viano actually has a cool interior that I think makes it more impressive than your typical minivan. You an reverse the 2nd row seats and a fulll sized table pops up. As someone who regularly eats hot food in my car, I can't tell you how much I would love to have such a feature in my Odyssey.