patrick.net

It doesn't bother you that you're voting to undo every thing the "New Deal" era policy did for America and the middle class.

Apple is a "conservative"?

Who is Apple's BFF? Do we get to put them in jail if they speed?

I see you've bought hook line and sinker the nonsense about corporations being people.

I expect corporations to behave like psychopaths. Sensible controls should prevent them from turning into mass murderers. Worshipping them like gods, to be above all laws of men, that is the NeoCon credo not a "liberal value".

thomas.wong1986 says

We dont have mfg like Laptops, PC, Telecom Equipment, and many other industrial jobs because of EPA and Unions.

Bzzt wrong. We have a problem with this "Free Trade" nonsense, where we lower our tariffs and trade barriers and nobody else does. China for example makes it very hard to American companies to compete. They aren't stupid. Our people were gullible because the money men said it would make them richer.... and it does have a pumping effect in the SHORT term.

Sir James Goldsmith laid it all out, back in the 90's:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/4PQrz8F0dBI

Frankly I couldn't give two figs what Jobs said to the President. Because someone seems to be a genius at one thing, doesn't make them a genius in everything. He was famous for his "reality distortion field" and in no way was he a Prophet.

Not a surprise. Apple under Steve Jobs was always driven by putting out products that lived up to Jobs's vision. If that meant having suppliers that expose workers to toxic chemicals or forces mandatory 100 hour weeks, Apple doesn't care as long as those suppliers can meet Jobs's demanding deadlines and specs.

There may still be companies with a moral compass (Costco comes to my mind), but I don't think Apple has ever been one of them.

Vicente says

Bzzt wrong. We have a problem with this "Free Trade" nonsense, where we lower our tariffs and trade barriers and nobody else does. China for example makes it very hard to American companies to compete. They aren't stupid. Our people were gullible because the money men said it would make them richer.... and it does have a pumping effect in the SHORT term.

No, its not wrong...I gave one of the problems we have .. you have provided a second equally important point caused by foreign govt...

BOTH of our points are correct and need to be resolved !

astrid says

Not a surprise. Apple under Steve Jobs was always driven by putting out products that lived up to Jobs's vision. If that meant having suppliers that expose workers to toxic chemicals or forces mandatory 100 hour weeks, Apple doesn't care as long as those suppliers can meet Jobs's demanding deadlines and specs

Apple doesnt make anything.. never did. Its the Motorola, Intel, Seagate, Connors, AMD, Sandisk, Cypress and a number of other real tech companies that created the guts for Mac and iToys like chips, storage, and some software.

Yes, it takes toxic chemicals and labor (day/night/swing sifts). So what! Thats what makes technology work..thats what made Silicon Valley, provided growth and prosperity
Billions that could have been made fueling US jobs..

Today, its mainly Samsung inside Apple products. And they are all too happy to get the business which fuels Korean and Chinese jobs.. You wont find anyone in Korea, China, or Japan complaining.

thomas.wong1986 says

you have provided a second equally important point caused by foreign govt...

I have provided the only important point, and it's driven by Richie Rich.

Vicente says

I have provided the only important point, and it's driven by Richie Rich.

Typical liberals .. afraid of having US manufacture anything.

Keep US workers on food stamps and a DOG collar... all the while enriching foreigner workers and foreign governments. Just spread the US wealth around the globe!

thomas.wong1986 says

Typical liberals .. afraid of having US manufacture anything.

Keep US workers on food stamps and a DOG collar... all the while enriching foreigner workers and foreign governments.

Another Uprising Another June
Another bloody solstice moon
another season, another reason
for makin' Warlords

Alot of booze, alot of rice
the Patsy's nervous he answers twice
He's so willin' to do the killin'
oh makin' Warlords

Picture a little Hell hole
a bastion where democracy clings
picture the same damn hell hole
Think what a Civil war can bring

He's making wishes for a Dictator's coat
He's so ambitious he' killin' foes
but don't forget folks thats what you get folks
for makin' Warlords

Another year or maybe less
whats this I hear? Well you can't confess
the country's neglected and he's dejected
for makin' Warlords

He sits alone most every night
He doesn't pander he doesn't philander
he says he's busy but she say's "is he?"
He's makin' War plans

The UN can't be bought they don't take money
He'll go down in a international tribunal
some judge who thinks he's funny
says you'll sing at your own funeral

he says now judge suppose i fail
the judge says there wont be jail
you'll meet the reaper, it'll be cheaper
than makin' warlords

you'll meet the reaper, it'll be cheaper
than makin' warlords

astrid says

Not a surprise. Apple under Steve Jobs was always driven by putting out products that lived up to Jobs's vision. If that meant having suppliers that expose workers to toxic chemicals or forces mandatory 100 hour weeks, Apple doesn't care as long as those suppliers can meet Jobs's demanding deadlines and specs.

There may still be companies with a moral compass (Costco comes to my mind), but I don't think Apple has ever been one of them.

I thought the moral compass for corporate persons always point to profits. Care for a discussion in meta-ethics?

thomas.wong1986 says

Typical liberals .. afraid of having US manufacture anything.

On the contrary, I want US manufacturing. You want pots & furniture made in the USA, it's easy. Raise tariffs on those import goods.

Tariffs are not necessary. I bought furniture made in the US because they offer superior value.

Imported furniture are usually cheap (and even more cheaply made) or very expensive (think Italy). You have to overcome the shipping costs so you need either meas market volume or very high premium.

Peter P says

Tariffs are not necessary.

My parents retired to Hickory, NC. A place long known as the "furniture capital". One plant closing after another the last decade. Where is the made in USA furniture you have coming from?

I think Vermont and Virginia.

To close the loop on this thread, Apple is changing it's position:

http://www.apple.com/environment/letter-to-customers/

thomas.wong1986 says

Typical liberals .. afraid of having US manufacture anything.

Keep US workers on food stamps and a DOG collar... all the while enriching foreigner workers and foreign governments. Just spread the US wealth around the globe!

Nominated.

Typical right wing dim bulb. Identify a couple of almost related trends you don't like, and then claim them to be part of some liberal agenda.

Just think of all the things you have to work with that you didn't work in to this. Gay marriage, crime, rap music, the cost of health care, second amendment gun rights, the global warming profit conspiracy, teaching biblical evolution as a legitimate theory, the right of corporations to control government, the public sector unions problem, and so on.

Gosh. When I look at that list, it almost makes me wish I was a stupid and dishonest scumbag. There's so much money I could make with my very own talk radio program, weaving these things together as supposed liberal conspiracies.

thomas.wong1986 says

Just spread the US wealth around the globe!

THomas believes in capitalism and beleives that this sytem is best for all countries. Thomas believes in global capitalism and free trade.

And yet when one country has low wages that are a fraction of the wages in the US, attracting manufacturing to go over there, Thomas sees liberal agenda ?

Vicente says

To close the loop on this thread, Apple is changing it's position:

There's no "Do Over".

@ Peter P - corporate persons should not exist in its current form. Its rights should be far more curtailed and it should be equity financed with minimal leverage. There should be substantial holding time for shares and shares should only be held and controlled by natural persons, not other artificial entities. The current form of corporations, especially mature corporations, is monstrous and should be cut down.

re discussion on wages
The wage issue is a red herring. Wages are a relatively small component of the cost of producing and marketing products, I believe sub-15% for most types of manufacturing.

Just look at Japan and Germany - they continue to export manufactured goods even though their workers are far more pampered than most American workers.

The biggest drivers of corporate outsourcing/in-sourcing decisions tend are taxation and access to resource/market.

@astrid

You are going to disagree with me but I think corporations are people too. Anyone can start his own corporations and/or LLC's. However, we need to end corporate welfare and curtail the rent-seeking power of large entities.

Switzerland is not part of the EU and UK will probably do fine. So will Holland and the Scandinavian countries.

Lets see how well Germany will do after Euro disappears. Can Italians afford to buy as much German goods with Lira? Perhaps they will still do fine with wealthy Chinese buying luxury cars, but it is only due to the success (for now) of capitalism in China. Also, Germany makes really expensive toys like $200M yachts. These vessels were unthinkable just a few decades ago. But thanks to the "widening wealth gap" Germany is selling them like hot cakes. So aren't they just "exporting" social "injustice"? Well, they build great things. More power to them.

There is not necessarily an end to capitalism. There is another way. It happened many times in history. It is called WAR.

Apple: No wait, we're green again

"Calling its decision to abandon a green certification system for electronics "a mistake," Apple on Friday announced it would again submit its products for EPEAT certification.

"We've recently heard from many loyal Apple customers who were disappointed to learn that we had removed our products from the EPEAT rating system," Apple's senior vice president for hardware engineering, Bob Mansfield, said in a statement. "I recognize that this was a mistake. Starting today, all eligible Apple products are back on EPEAT.""

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/13/tech/gaming-gadgets/apple-epeat-reversal/index.html?hpt=hp_bn5

How you like me nah!

So people equate being in a rating system to being good.

What about AAA-rated Lehman bonds?

People are so lazy and empty that they want to outsource responsibilities.