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Shaman
2012 Sep 5, 2:32am
Auntiegrav said, " the Transcontinental Railroad"
Great show on AMC about that. Great writing and directing and acting! I like it.
Vicente
2012 Sep 5, 2:58am
Tax avoidance is minimizing your tax bill buy all legal means (aka tax breaks) available.
I go with evasion, because the INTENT is clearly to avoid paying that which you owe AT ALL COSTS even the risk of penalties. When an individual does it, they can go to jail. When a bunch of corporate officers do it, nobody goes to jail and the worst case is paying a penalty.
freak80
2012 Sep 5, 4:08am
Who created the EPA? Richard M. Nixon.
Who signed NAFTA into law? Bill Clinton
Tell me again how we are supposed to distinguish Left and Right in America?
Well put. Wasn't it Jesse "The Body" Ventura who said politics isn't much different than the WWF? It's a bunch of fake "us vs. them" entertainment where all of the contenders pretend to be rivals but then party together after the show laughing at all the suckers that thought it was for real.
Auntiegrav
2012 Sep 5, 5:25am
Who created the EPA? Richard M. Nixon.
Who signed NAFTA into law? Bill Clinton
Tell me again how we are supposed to distinguish Left and Right in America?
Well put. Wasn't it Jesse "The Body" Ventura who said politics isn't much different than the WWF? It's a bunch of fake "us vs. them" entertainment where all of the contenders pretend to be rivals but then party together after the show laughing at all the suckers that thought it was for real.
Good ole Jesse. Another "so far right, he's Left" fellow. Have you seen his interview about the visit he made to Cuba as governor? His Cuban handlers offered to help him lose his CIA tail.
Tax avoidance is minimizing your tax bill buy all legal means (aka tax breaks) available.
I would simply use the term "tax compliant"... since the laws clearly allowed for deductions/credits or other tax treatment in your favor for a reason to reduce your taxable income.
The media and public has really overused the term "avoidance" "Loop Holes" which gave it a different meaning.
It is not an exaggeration to say that I have never seen a criticism of a conservative policy that accurately portrays a conservative policy.
marcus
2012 Sep 22, 10:11am
It is not an exaggeration to say that I have never seen a criticism of a conservative policy that accurately portrays a conservative policy.
Gee. I wonder whether you label yourself as a "conservative."
Our politics is so deeply partisan that the words conservative and liberal have little meaning anymore.
What you really mean, is that there is this sort of team, or tribe, or cohort that call themselves the republicans. You identify with this political group, and feel that they have very legitimate policies that they endorse and try to move forward.
And these policies are in your view misrepresented by "liberals."
In my view, their biggest policy is hating it when power is in the hands of the other group. (hence CLintons impeachment for sex, and questions about Obamas birthplace etc..)
A lot of the same groupthink behavior occurs on both sides. But I really believe that the observation that republicans are currently dominated by a group of crazy people is correct.
When people on this forum talk about how Reagan would be a RINO now, or maybe even way too liberal to be a republican (see http://patrick.net/?p=1216676 ) , I never hear any argument from the local right wingers.
I assume this means that they (and you ?) are okay with that. You think that Obama, who would be extremely conservative by any sane measure is a dangerous socialist.
This is simply the result of propaganda. I think one absolute truism is that the authoritarian personality type is far more vulnerable to propaganda. They need someone to tell them a bunch of lies so that they can have strong emotions behind their unwavering support for their authority.
rootvg
2012 Sep 22, 11:02am
Every libbie thinks every conservative is a Nazi (or sociopath, have been hearing that term for about thirty years) and every conservative thinks every libbie is a Communist on the sly.
It doesn't matter. There are 160+ Electoral votes in states (59 percent of the amount required to be elected President) where the vast majority vote center or center-right and that's not likely to change anytime soon.
All this business about Texas becoming Democratic is nice fodder for the coffeehouses but I actually lived there for almost a decade and I'm telling you their brand of Democratism isn't anywhere near that of California or Massachusetts. This is why I say the DNC's being forced to include favoring gay marriage in their platform will destroy any chance they had of carrying something significant in the south this year. They don't have many leather festivals in Charlotte or Raleigh. There aren't very many in Columbus or Cincinnati, either.
One thought: if Right wingers are Sociopaths, Left Wingers are Marxists.
After all, Marxist grand scheme is to take what they didnt earn, and give it to those that didnt.
marcus
2012 Sep 22, 2:52pm
After all, Marxist grand scheme is to take what they didnt earn, and give it to those that didnt.
That's right. THere are only two options. Keep taxes too low, especially on the high levels of income, and let the government f%&K off and die (except for the military industrial complex, and the oil companies, and all the other industries that get special treatment from the govt).
You're either in that club, or you believe in total redistribution, everyone has the same lifestyle regardless of how hard or how well they work.
There is no in between !
THat's such lame BS. And it totally does not explain how we did so much better when tax rates were higher, without being anything close to a communist country.
It also doesn't explain how France, which is maybe a bit too socialist for my taste has a lower govt debt to GDP ratio than we do.
rootvg
2012 Sep 22, 4:00pm
Yes, it would be a rejection of everything I've ever been taught by all those people who taught Poli Sci for all those years plus all those business guys back in Ohio and Texas who made money and managed people for all those years.
That's why it won't happen. Life doesn't work that way.
Now I KNOW you're a kid.
You're learning, finally. Keep it coming.
Guys, I just gotta say at this point, and I'm looking at you "Thomas":
"A new study by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service has found that over the past 65 years, tax cuts for the rich have not led to economic growth and instead are linked to greater income inequality in the United States.
The study found that cutting taxes for the rich does not increase saving, investment, or productivity growth. “The top tax rates appear to have little or no relation to the size of the economic pie,†the study said."
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/news/business/0915taxesandeconomy.pdf
A breakdown:
http://patriotacts.com/wealthy-tax-cuts/
Man, Thomas, one of these days you're going to realize what an asshole you've been and the sound you'll make will be something like "...eep."
freak80
2012 Sep 24, 12:08am
Obama will probably win. Polling is pretty accurate these days.
I wouldn't interpret an Obama victory as a mandate for liberal policies. Romney is more liberal than conservative, except on tax policy. The only reason conservatives are voting for Romney is their greater dislike of Obama. It was exactly the same thing 4 years ago with McCain.
The country will still be about 50/50 liberal/conservative after the election.
Nothing changes on New Year's Day. Nothing changes on Election Day either.
Romney is more liberal than conservative
ha ha ha ha ha... The candidate who was chosen and forcibly placed into the candidacy by the republican party is now suddenly a liberal. JHC christ freak, do you and your gang even listen to yourselves?
I have nothing to contribute to these conversations other than dull mockery at this point, I'm totally aware of that and I'm comfortable with it. What more is needed?
Did you hear about Maxine Waters? She threw her grandson under the bus. Some non-sociopath.
http://atlantablackstar.com/2012/09/21/waters-cleared-of-charges-by-house-ethics-committee/
kentm: The candidate who was chosen and forcibly placed into the candidacy by the republican party is now suddenly a liberal.
Get a grip there kent. He WAS governor of Massachusetts. I'm enjoying watching him make a run for the center as he tries to embrace the unembracable (is that even a word).
PeopleUnited
2012 Sep 24, 5:43pm
"Obama's party lost 63 seats at the midterms in 2010 and his positives remain in the forties but you say he's gonna win a second term. WHY?"
Answer: Mitt Romney, the Republicans worst campaigner since John McCain.
Republicans blew it just like Dems did with Kerry. Pick someone likable if you want to win guys! Mitt is not likable to the "average" voter. But then again, that is why Mitt was selected by the powers that be to insure Obama can wreak 4 more years of erosion in American prosperity. You see the powers that be are not primarily interested in Americans, but rather their own agenda for a new world order, where freedom is only for themselves, the elites.
Auntiegrav
2012 Sep 24, 10:56pm
"Obama's party lost 63 seats at the midterms in 2010 and his positives remain in the forties but you say he's gonna win a second term. WHY?"
Answer: Mitt Romney, the Republicans worst campaigner since John McCain.
Republicans blew it just like Dems did with Kerry. Pick someone likable if you want to win guys! Mitt is not likable to the "average" voter. But then again, that is why Mitt was selected by the powers that be to insure Obama can wreak 4 more years of erosion in American prosperity. You see the powers that be are not primarily interested in Americans, but rather their own agenda for a new world order, where freedom is only for themselves, the elites.
All other things being proofless and thus, 'equal', the bottom line comes down to CFR approval. If Romney was selected as the 'best' representative of the CFR interests in the Republican platform, then there's little hope that the committee wasn't on LSD that day. Obama's willingness to try to compromise with the corporate agenda is obvious in almost all of his attempts to pass legislation (including dropping the public option from the Romney/Gingrichcare law).
Romney is implanted and tagged by the Mormons: a proven false 'religion' which he supports heavily. From the standpoint of corporate America, Obama's intentions, even at their worst, are more likely to stabilize the corporate atmosphere than Romney/Ryan's radical theology, and stability is the cornerstone of investment, regardless of whether the politics are Drug-company fascism (Democrat voting records) or Insurance-company fascism (Republican voting records).
freak80
2012 Sep 25, 12:35am
JHC christ freak, do you and your gang even listen to yourselves?
Kent, The Onion did a hilarious news story about Romney going back in time to kill the more liberal version of himself.
I'm not suggesting the Republican party is more liberal than the Democrat party. Yes, that would be absurd.
Tenpoundbass
2017 May 31, 1:13pm
This is how Liberals parse their list of shit about Republicans.
Republicans: Hey let's come up with welfare and help poor people out in the country that are down on their luck. Mainly disabled people and people who can't work otherwise.
Democrats: Hey great idea let's add healthy able bodied people to it as well.
Republican: NO I don't think that's a good idea
Democrats: Please Oh pretty please, I'll let you build that new Navy Destroyer fleet you always wanted. And besides it will be great for votes.
Republicans: Well I guess that will be alright provided it's only temporary.
Democrats: Well how about illegal aliens and people who just flat out refuse to work.
Republican: No damn it enough is enough!
Democrats: Ah See! You hate poor people and don't want to ease their suffering!
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http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09/02/sociopathic/
Ayn Rand and the Sociopathic Society or ‘How I Learned to Stop Loving My Neighbor and Despise Them Instead.’
A fat, smug bastard friend of mine (that’s his chosen nickname, The FSB) pointed out to me some time ago that pretty much ALL conservative politics are selfish at their core. Take any conservative position on a social or economic issue and boil away all the rhetoric and what you are left with is “I got mine, screw you.â€
I thought about that for a while. I suppose its simplicity struck me as being a little too easy, a little too sound bitey. So I sat down and made a list:
No gay marriage – Homosexuality makes me uncomfortable (due to misguided religious influence or poor upbringing or both) so gay people should be punished because of my beliefs. Stoopid homos…
No welfare, food stamps or Medicaid – I’m not poor enough to qualify for these programs so my tax dollars shouldn’t pay for it. Stoopid poor people and by poor I really mean black…
No health care reform – Why should I help pay for other people who are sick when I’m not? Stoopid sick people…
No environmental protection – Environmental laws makes things more expensive for me and that’s bad. I also don’t understand the concept of long term impact; I want cheap gas and gadgets now! Stoopid…ah, you get the idea…
Don’t raise my taxes – EVER. The government can find its own money to pay for stuff.
Medicare – Young conservatives: Why should I help pay for old people and the disabled?
Older conservatives: Keep your government hands off my Medicare!
Social Security – Young conservatives: Sacrifices need to be made, people should take care of themselves, not depend on handouts from people like me.
Older conservatives: Sacrifices need to be made BUT DON’T YOU TOUCH MY SOCIAL SECURITY!
No abortion – The government should tell women what to do with their bodies because I don’t like abortion.
No prayer in school? – GOVERNMENT OVERREACH!! I like The Jesus™ so everyone should have to listen to my prayers. No Muslim prayers, though. That’s indoctrination.
This list goes on for some time. The more I thought about it, the more obvious it became. A conservative society is a borderline sociopathic society.
Dictionary.com defines a sociopath as: a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.
Conservapedia says a sociopath is “someone with a personality disorder characterized by an antisocial behavior and an absence of moral responsibility or social conscience.†(I would have cited Wikipedia but we all know they’re a liberal front for George Soros, I think I heard that on Glenn Beck)
The key words here are “moral responsibility†and “social conscienceâ€. Conservative politics lack these essential characteristics. In their place we find greed, hate, lies, an inability to empathize and an overblown sense of entitlement and self importance. In other words: all the indicators of a seriously disturbed person. Except it’s a political philosophy and it has millions of disciples.
But Justin, you filthy liberal scum, how can you say that?
Well, that’s kind of easy. Who is the guiding light of conservatives (and Libertarians) all the way from corrupt CEOs down to easily manipulated Tea Party fanatics? Ayn Rand.
Ayn Rand’s specific worldview was that “The pursuit of his (man’s) own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life.â€[i] This is in direct opposition to a functional humane society where the whole must be cohesive in order to provide for its weakest and most vulnerable. You’ll notice my inclusion of the word “humaneâ€. You can have a perfectly functional society without a shred of humanity in it. Take, for example, the Industrial Age societies. They literally built the foundations for the world we know and yet they allowed or even encouraged child labor; essentially the slavery of children. Speaking of slavery, they had THAT, too, and no matter what Haley Barbour, Pat Buchanan and the other apologists revisionists would have you think, it was horrible and inhumane.
Ayn Rand’s ideal world is one where society has no say in your actions short of you physically assaulting another person. “The only function of the government, in such a society, is the task of protecting man’s rights, i.e., the task of protecting him from physical force.â€[ii] One is forced to wonder what she would make of Wall Street’s Epic Fail. Rand was a big champion of no regulation at all. Close your eyes and imagine what Wall Street could do with even less regulation than it had before. Think of all the possibilities. Taste the freedom.
Are you done vomiting yet?
Do you know why Rand’s laissez-faire utopia would fail? It’s the exact same reason a socialist utopia would fail; people are imperfect. We are greedy, envious, petty and selfish. There will always be some among us who will better themselves specifically to the detriment of others because they simply don’t care. There will always be those who, as they gain power and wealth, will want more at any expense. We saw this in action in communist Russia. It was rife with the kind of corruption described so very well in George Orwell’s Animal Farm. Everyone was equal, but some were more equal than others.
We see it today in that bastion of capitalism: America and its budding Oligarchy. As wealth and power becomes ever more concentrated, the rest of us suffer. Any attempts to remedy the situation by imposing restrictions on the rich and powerful to keep them from fleecing the country is met with howls of class warfare, Socialism and government overreach. Any attempts to remove any of the sweetheart deals in place allowing those same anti-government rich and powerful to pay less taxes (or no taxes at all) or to reap billions in unnecessary subsidies are also met with howls of unfair treatment.
Now that’s what I call having your cake and eating it, too.
These people are sociopaths, pure and simple. As long as they get what they “deserveâ€, it doesn’t matter what happens to anyone else. Homeless families are not their problem. Malnourished children are not their problem. Uninsured sick people are not their problem. The elderly reduced to abject poverty (as they were before the advent of Social Security) are not their problem.
Ayn Rand and her delusional rantings provide a rationalization for this immoral behavior. After the Enron scandal and again after the crash in 2008, CEOs started to reread Atlas Shrugged. “CEOs put the book down knowing in their hearts that they are not the greedy crooks they are portrayed to be in today’s business headlines but are heroes like the characters in Rand’s novel.â€[iii]
Heroes? Really? Is that so?
I would love to walk a group of Wall Street executives out to a Tea Party rally and have them explain to the crowd all the ways these “heroes†have stolen away the TPers money and future. Then announce that it’s OK because Ayn Rand says self interest and greed are good so whatever these “heroes†do in pursuit of that goal is morally just, even necessary. I figure the cognitive dissonance would make at least half of the crowd’s heads explode.
Mahatma Ghandi said a society is judged by how it treats its most vulnerable. By this very simple criterion, the conservative sociopathic society would be found wanting and yet the conservative movement claims to be the party of God, family and human decency. It is none of these things as we’ll examine in my next liberal descent into madness, “Republican Jesus.â€
#politics