patrick.net

Suburban Gal says

GraooGra says

Too many idiots use keyboard. ....their leftist conditioning, their ignorance, their despise of different ideas,...It ust terrifies me.

I can say the exact same thing about people on the far right, like yourself.

I'm tired of hearing, "it's my [God given] right!" It's all about YOUR right. We're such a rights driven country that it scares the heck out of me. The fact we're so rights driven tends to blind us and put us in a state of denial. It keeps us from doing things that need to be done for the greater good of the people. It does more than terrify me. It disturbs me.

First of all, I can discuss and argue with you any time, any day. You (I mean plural left) just escape the argument.

Second, 'before we even start, what does it exactly mean 'greater good of the people'. Commies butchered 60 million people for the 'greater good of the people', so I run away from these slogans.

BobbyS says

Why aren't super bazookas and mini atomic bombs legal to own? Since it's not the weapon but the person that does the killing, we should have zero concern about anything that could be considered a weapon.

Maybe because they are not pointed, when you shoot you create a collateral damage? So you need to draw the line somewhere. The problem is that left wants to take away all gun rights, maybe far right would be happy with bazookas, I don't know.

It isn't the guns. It is the deterioration of us as a people. Taking away the possibility of defending against a maniac won't fix the problem.

GraooGra says

BobbyS says

Why aren't super bazookas and mini atomic bombs legal to own? Since it's not the weapon but the person that does the killing, we should have zero concern about anything that could be considered a weapon.

Maybe because they are not pointed, when you shoot you create a collateral damage? So you need to draw the line somewhere. The problem is that left wants to take away all gun rights, maybe far right would be happy with bazookas, I don't know.

I'm taking the argument that people kill people not weapons to its logical "emotionless" conclusion. A bazooka is merely a tool to kill with great power, that is all. So is a machine gun that can shoot 200 rounds in 20 seconds. Such need to kill with great power can be useful for self-defense and no different from needing to defend yourself from fewer attackers with a handgun. So if you say bazookas and 200 round per 20 secs machine guns are too dangerous, then you agree that weapons do play some role in how many people a crazed killer would/could kill.

taxee says

It isn't the guns. It is the deterioration of us as a people. Taking away the possibility of defending against a maniac won't fix the problem.

Agreed, therefore we as a nation should have ABSOLUTELY ZERO concern about nuclear weapons other nations have. We should be fully concerned about the maniacs instead. Furthermore, everything should be completely legal with no restriction regardless of its ability to kill others since it maniacs will kill no matter what the laws are.

Suburban Gal says

I'm tired of hearing, "it's my [God given] right!" It's all about YOUR right. We're such a rights driven country that it scares the heck out of me. The fact we're so rights driven tends to blind us and put us in a state of denial. It keeps us from doing things that need to be done for the greater good of the people. It does more than terrify me. It disturbs me.

For the record I don't even own a gun. I don't want it PERSONALLY and it is my personal choice. But I do defend people's right to own it. I won't impose my personal believes on the rest of the country just because "I feel it" That's your personal emotions and how do you know you are right if your feeling is subjective?

Moreover, I think that if these teachers were able to carry weapon, he would never, ever broke and shoot so many kids. Thugs are cowards, evil is coward. Why disarm people who would be able to defend themselves and the others from bad people? This is counter-intuitive. You know why? Because leftist government want you to think this way. If citizens don't have power then government steps in and takes over. Your liberties are crushed. Government gets bigger and more intrusive.

GraooGra says

For the record I don't even own a gun. I don't want it PERSONALLY and it is my personal choice. But I do defend people's right to own it. I won't impose my personal believes on the rest of the country just because "I feel it" That's your personal emotions and how do you know you are right if your feeling is subjective?

Moreover, I think that if these teachers were able to carry weapon, he would never, ever broke and shoot so many kids. Thugs are cowards, evil is coward. Why disarm people who would be able to defend themselves and the others from bad people? This is counter-intuitive. You know why? Because leftist government want you to think this way. If citizens don't have power then government steps in and takes over. Your liberties are crushed. Government gets bigger and more intrusive.

I agree, we should encourage everyone to own a gun by making it shameful to not own a gun. This will allow for a more peaceful society with a more level playing field. And since you don't own a gun, you are an unpatriotic coward! You should feel a sense of great duty to carry a gun at all times in order to defend yourself on others. You are a disgraceful and despicable human being for leaving yourself and others so vulnerable to evil maniacs.

It really is tragic when a sociopath goes on a rampage. My heart goes out to all of the victims and their families. Before being rash, as it seems happens after each one of these incidents, one needs to give equal consideration to all of the stories where individuals successfully used a handgun to thwart a property crime or protect themselves and others from harm. These incidents are rarely reported so a lot of guess work goes into it. Personally, I have anecdotal evidence to say that a handgun saved a friend of mine from a violent act. Face it, If somebody wants to get a gun they will, no matter what the law says. Those who follow the law when obtaining a weapon are typically people that will not use it to intentionally harm somebody.

BobbyS says

I'm taking the argument that people kill people not weapons to its logical "emotionless" conclusion. A bazooka is merely a tool to kill with great power, that is all. So is a machine gun that can shoot 200 rounds in 20 seconds. Such need to kill with great power can be useful for self-defense and no different from needing to defend yourself from fewer attackers with a handgun. So if you say bazookas and 200 round per 20 secs machine guns are too dangerous, then you agree that weapons do play some role in how many people a crazed killer would/could kill.

Discussion regarding how much control you have over the weapon you use, atc. is useless.

Let's get to the core of things,,,
I repeat, 2nd amendment is for citizens to prevent them against tyranny of the government or at least the 'illusion of prevention". It is not really for hunting rights or even self defense or if weapon is an object which controls or influences people's decision. Government will be always interested in curbing these rights, left leaning government in particular.

BobbyS says

I agree, we should encourage everyone to own a gun by making it shameful to not own a gun. This will allow for a more peaceful society with a more level playing field. And since you don't own a gun, you are an unpatriotic coward! You should feel a sense of great duty to carry a gun at all times in order to defend yourself on others. You are a disgraceful and despicable human being for leaving yourself and others so vulnerable to evil maniacs.

LOL, I appreciate sarcasm.
No, you let people be. Some want to own guns, some don't. I'm not saying don't make background check and maybe health record check. I'm not anarchist, I understand boundaries. But let's be reasonable. When you take away guns rights, you limit only the good guys. Bad ones always find the way.

I agree 1000%!

Weapons of any sort are not allowed in prison.

Anyone every watch "Locked up"?

So in the most controlled of environments, guards can be bought off, things can be sneaked in, and hell, people...even the dregs of society....can be damned creative.

Who really things that gun control laws will result in a gun free society?

The Professor says

People that think this way should not be allowed to own firearms.

Yet they do and have obtained them legally in most cases.

Call it Crazy says

Stop focusing on the guns, they are just a "tool", focus on what causes these guys to "snap"...

What? Make support available for sufferers of mental illness and their caregivers? Beyond pills, maybe some actual contact and discussion with a professional? Giving them support and outreach so they don't flip out? Helping their caregivers (many of whom work for a living and can't be around 24/7 to monitor them)?

Nah, it's all the fault of Guns/Atheism/Males/Insert Pet Cause.

Why look at the most shining and obvious problems - isolation/alienation and mental illness?

Call it Crazy says

It just comes off that more people on the "right" CAN think logically and use critical thinking skills regarding firearms, where many on the "left" are ignorant and uneducated regarding firearms and would rather use fear and emotions to drive their agenda instead of "facts"...

Sorry. More people on the "left" think logically and CAN use critical thinking skills regarding firearms, whereas many on the "right" are ignorant and uneducated regarding firearms and would rather use stupidity and emotions to drive their agenda instead of "facts." In fact, a right to bear arms seems far more important to those on the right than a child's right to grow up. People on the right seem to love guns more than they do children.

We really need to to stop ignoring the fact that the availability of guns in this country is literally killing us.

Suburban Gal says

In fact, a right to bear arms seems far more important to those on the right than a child's right to grow up. People on the right appear to love guns more than they do children.

That sounds like sensationalism. They are not mutually exclusive.

I do not even like guns. But they are here and it is not possible to uninvent them.

People on the "right" also do not like to make "progress" for the sake of "progress" itself. There is no virtue in simply "doing something" that could have prevented some past tragedies.

We need to approach this as a people-problem.

Last years there were 33,808 traffic related deaths in the USA. There were only 101 in Estonia.

Ban cars!

Call it Crazy says

thunderlips11 says

Why look at the most shining and obvious problems - isolation/alienation and mental illness?

Because it's logical?? That's why it won't happen....

Because its a bloody expensive problem for one. Of course we've just traded expensive psychiatric and mental institutions for expensive law enforcement->judicial->prison sytems.

We need a society in which people genuinely care about their neighbors.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

If I am not Free to field tactical nukes to waste fuckers that fuck with me Freedom has no meaning.

I'll see your puny tactical nuke and raise you a strategic:

Yee Haa!

Gotta think big my friend

Peter P says

We need a society in which people genuinely care about their neighbors.

I hear Canada is nice...