patrick.net

tatupu70 says

lol--I pretty secure in my knowledge of how the real economy works. The shit may hit the fan, but it won't be because of a weak dollar--that much is clear. It will be because the wealth disparity is at record levels--levels not seen since 1929. Funny, some people just don't learn from history.

Wow that is 180 deg of reality. The number one most likely reason for the SHTF will be currency debasement.

indigenous says

The number one most likely reason for the SHTF will be currency debasement.

OK--please explain why. Foreign goods will be more expensive. This will reduce our trade deficit and bring jobs back to the US.

tatupu70 says

indigenous says

The number one most likely reason for the SHTF will be currency debasement.

OK--please explain why. Foreign goods will be more expensive. This will reduce our trade deficit and bring jobs back to the US.

It is not that the foreign goods will go up in cost it will be that the dollar goes down in value. This is simply because when you create more of something it is less valuable, i.e. inflation.

It would help the trade deficit except many countries are doing the same thing as us and we have a trade war so it doesn't really change much except with China as they can no longer devalue their currency.

The thing about money is that it boils down to confidence when people lose confidence (that they can trade your paper for other goods) then it is no longer money.

indigenous says

It is not that the foreign goods will go up in cost it will be that the dollar goes down in value. This is simply because when you create more of something it is less valuable, i.e. inflation.

No, foreign goods go up in cost. It will take more dollars to buy them. That's the definition of going up in cost.

indigenous says

It would help the trade deficit except many countries are doing the same thing as us and we have a trade war so it doesn't really change much except with China as they can no longer devalue their currency.

The thing about money is that it boils down to confidence when people lose confidence (that they can trade your paper for other goods) then it is no longer money.

Still waiting for how a weaker dollar causes the shit to hit the fan. Are you planning on giving your explanation?

Minimum Variable Wages are not a job killer per se...they really only increase the variable unit cost of production. That is, minimum wages increase prices as they limit supply of goods.

Producers produce until marginal cost = marginal revenue. Diminishing marginal returns ensure loss of productivity at increasing levels of production.

Fixed employment costs (such as tying health care to employment) lower total employment, not marginal costs.

tatupu70 says

indigenous says

It would help the trade deficit except many countries are doing the same thing as us and we have a trade war so it doesn't really change much except with China as they can no longer devalue their currency.

The thing about money is that it boils down to confidence when people lose confidence (that they can trade your paper for other goods) then it is no longer money.

Still waiting for how a weaker dollar causes the shit to hit the fan. Are you planning on giving your explanation?

By inflation or hyperinflation.

lostand confused says

Well if they didn't get welfare,t hen they may actually demand better jobs and the politicians to do their job
Tatupu says
You're living in a fantasy world. You think people on welfare are there because they aren't "demanding" better jobs? I didn't know that was an option. Where can I go to "demand" a better paying job? Board of Director meetings? City Hall? Please share the process.lostand confused says

I suspect that lostandconfused is actually correct. Welfare has increased by leaps and bounds as inequality has increased in lockstep. Throughout this, government policy has been to keep increasing social welfare programs to feed and house the poor. The poor class has grown to massive proportion due to all the jobs lost from the economy.
I believe that the wealthy elite are in favor of welfare as a necessary evil to keep the underclasses under control. As long as these jobless people can feed themselves and their children, they won't revolt. Revolution is scary, and won't happen unless people have no other choice. It's also scary as hell to the rulers of America, so paying off the poor is a fair trade to them being allowed to keep playing their game of monopoly. Keeping the masses pacified is key.
That's why the big movement to legalize marijuana is gaining such traction. It's a perfect drug to keep people content with poverty and rob them of both ambition and motivation.

If welfare was cut off tomorrow, you'd see riots by next week.
Our owners do not want that.

indigenous says

By inflation or hyperinflation.

Ah, yes. The dreaded hyperinflation that has been "just around the corner" for the last 30 years.

How much has the dollar been weakened since 1980? With no effect? But now, it's going to lead to hyperinflation?

Call it Crazy says

Oh Boy.... Hey Tat, I hope your wife handles the checkbook in your house...

I don't run my checking account so low that I really have to worry about it. But it's nice to see you are so concerned.

fyi--I'm 100% correct. I'm not sure why indigenous felt the need to point out something that I had just posted one post earlier...

Quigley says

believe that the wealthy elite are in favor of welfare as a necessary evil to keep the underclasses under control.

I disagree. Right wingers (the spokespeople of the 1%) continue to this day to try to cut welfare.

Quigley says

As long as these jobless people can feed themselves and their children, they won't revolt. Revolution is scary, and won't happen unless people have no other choice.

True, but there was no revolution in 1930. Things would have to get pretty scary before any real revolution would take hold...

tatupu70 says

How much has the dollar been weakened since 1980? With no effect? But now, it's going to lead to hyperinflation?

I think the tipping point will be when inflation forces the FED to raise the interest rates, which will turn the 200 billion or so in debt service into a trillion or so in debt service. At that point the FED will have no choice but to inflate.

Tatupu, the point you're missing is that the wealthy elite control the dialogue on BOTH sides of the aisle! This is required mummery to bamboozle the public into believing there is still a debate. Actual public policy is a much more accurate way
To determine the nation's direction than whatver garbage the politicians and pundits are spewing on talk shows and news channels. When it comes down to actually making laws the public has to deal with, the policy becomes clear.
Right wingers and left wingers are just doing their jobs to polarize the public against each other, so the real rulers keep the attention off what they are doing to us.
See: Chinese chicken processors and the USDA.

indigenous says

I think the tipping point will be when inflation forces the FED to raise the interest rates, which will turn the 200 billion or so in debt service into a trillion or so in debt service. At that point the FED will have no choice but to inflate.

You just said everyone else is weakening their currency as well. Why will the Fed need to raise rates??

Call it Crazy says

Quigley says

Keeping the masses pacified is key.

Keeping them pacified with YOUR money....

It is worthy of note how quickly this tipping point will occur.

tatupu70 says

indigenous says

I think the tipping point will be when inflation forces the FED to raise the interest rates, which will turn the 200 billion or so in debt service into a trillion or so in debt service. At that point the FED will have no choice but to inflate.

You just said everyone else is weakening their currency as well. Why will the Fed need to raise rates??

To stave on inflation

Quigley says

Right wingers and left wingers are just doing their jobs to polarize the public against each other, so the real rulers keep the attention off what they are doing to us.

I guess I don't see quite as large of a conspiracy as you do. That's getting into bgamall territory, IMO.

indigenous says

To stave on inflation

But only foreign goods will be rising. Inflation won't be rampant and raising rates won't help anyway. It's not demand-pull inflation...

tatupu70 says

indigenous says

To stave on inflation

But only foreign goods will be rising. Inflation won't be rampant and raising rates won't help anyway. It's not demand-pull inflation...

Note to self: never argue with an idiot

Call it Crazy says

Why wasn't there a revolution in 1930? Because there was nothing to "lose" (except your job).....

What does the entitlement crowd do when they "lose" Extended UE, EBT cards, Section 8, Obamaphones, Long Term Disability, Medicaid, and all the other entitlement "Freebies"?? A lot of those programs didn't exist in 1930....

You are insane. People don't revolt becuase they lose LTD. They revolt becuase they can't feed their family. Because they are dying of cold. Look throughout history.

indigenous says

Note to self: never argue with an idiot

2nd note to you--do some research before attempting to discuss matters that you are unfamiliar with.

Call it Crazy says

People don't feed their families from the cash or cash equivalent they gain from these programs??? Really???

Not sure. Do Obamaphones taste good?

tatupu70 says

Quigley says

Right wingers and left wingers are just doing their jobs to polarize the public against each other, so the real rulers keep the attention off what they are doing to us.

I guess I don't see quite as large of a conspiracy as you do. That's getting into bgamall territory, IMO.

Who exactly do you think owns all major news outlets and media organizations? Do you think that this is an anomaly? Something that is totally a wierd but meaningless coincidence?
It's not a large conspiracy, or even a particularly well-guarded one. It's more of a "fuck you we run the show" sort of thing.
And yes, they do like to use money from the middle class to pay for welfare for the lower classes, who need it because the wealthy elite has offshored all the jobs the less intellectually able are capable of performing!
Driving through all of this, in the right and left camps, is the philosophy of elitism. That the most able, the smartest, and the cleverest should and will prosper while everyone else can please die.
Republicans advance this idea in many ways.
Democrats also promote this, in more subtle ways like advocating for more college access (assuming everyone is able to be a good student), and calling their right-wing detractors inbred idiots. It's all hate on the less intelligent. Who will still be among us! We don't need to put everyone with 90 IQ or less on welfare. We need them to have jobs that let them maintain self-respect and be contributors to society rather than useless leeches.

Quigley says

Who exactly do you think owns all major news outlets and media organizations? Do you think that this is an anomaly? Something that is totally a wierd but meaningless coincidence?

So, does the owner tell every reporter and every new director what they can report on? The owner decides what airs on Fox45 in Omaha, Nebraska? Or NBC5 in Provo, Utah? Again--I find it difficult to believe that every reporter is getting muzzled. Guys who make it their life's work to find conspiracies.... I don't buy it.

To me, it's much more reasonable to think that the 1% buys off politicians to advance their agenda.

tatupu70 says

You are insane. People don't revolt becuase they lose LTD. They revolt
becuase they can't feed their family. Because they are dying of cold. Look
throughout history.

Russian peasants revolted because they wanted "land, peace and bread." America's poor already have "peace and bread" and they are able to rent their "land." Additionally, they have food that exceeds the "bread" level, electronics, automobiles and nice ol' laundry room on tv. The chances for revolution are mimimal.

It's much more subtle than that. The owners give the editors guidelines for their media. The editors decide what will be printed or aired. The reporters and writers quickly learn what will and will not be printed. If they have a story rejected, they have to replace it with another story, at a loss of time to themselves. So they learn the rules and abide by them voluntarily. After all, the news business has become ultra competitive. If they can't produce for their bosses, they will be replaced.
That's how it actually works.
Google around, you might learn something.

Quigley says

Who exactly do you think owns all major news outlets and media organizations? Do
you think that this is an anomaly? Something that is totally a wierd but
meaningless coincidence?

At national level of politics, you find that both reps and dems are significantly over-represented in terms of being 1 percenters so of course they are gonna do all that they can to advance their own interests.

Quigley says

After all, the news business has become ultra competitive. If they can't produce for their bosses, they will be replaced.

That's how it actually works.

And none of those guys has the ability/will to create a blog detailing the stories that his editor wouldn't run? Sorry--I don't buy it.

tatupu70 says

Quigley says

After all, the news business has become ultra competitive. If they can't produce for their bosses, they will be replaced.

That's how it actually works.

And none of those guys has the ability/will to create a blog detailing the stories that his editor wouldn't run? Sorry--I don't buy it.

They do! There's got to be hundreds of blogs started and written by ex-journalists! Many are saying the exact same things I am saying here! Where do you think I got these opinions? Seriously, take a peek outside your turtle shell. Your head must come out of the sand for you to see anything.

Quigley says

They do! There's got to be hundreds of blogs started and written by ex-journalists! Many are saying the exact same things I am saying here! Where do you think I got these opinions? Seriously, take a peek outside your turtle shell. Your head must come out of the sand for you to see anything.

OK--could you link to a few of them? Not sure why you wouldn't have done that from the start...

I did a quick search for media controlled or mainstream media conspiracy and got a bunch of nutjob websites talking about Jews or left wingers.