patrick.net

Bellingham Bill says

As for American Samoa, there's no law saying US workers here have to directly compete with Chinese and Pakistanis for their jobs.

(And if there is, we can repeal it.)

Do you think a law to "repeal" your own right to shop everywhere else but force you to shop at Nordstrom and Tiffany's would stick? Heck, even the high price on prescription pain killers have spawned an entire illicit drug industry, high state taxes on cigarettes have spawned interstate cigarette trafficking.

The human desire to get the most bang for one's own money (fruits of one's own labor) is a natural law, just like human desire for freedom. Make-belief "lawmaking" by a few actors in costumes is not going to repeal it. Not even with something like the Berlin Wall with machine gun nests mounted on top.

One other passing thought:

If not for FED meddling we would be in the midst of a deflation because of demographics and technology.

If the economy were allowed to rebalance without government "help" the economy would solve itself.

Of course that can't happen because inflation is our "friend" and the powers to be would lose too much.

I saw this this AM:

http://mises.org/daily/6630/The-Minimum-Wage-Forces-LowSkill-Workers-to-Compete-with-HigherSkill-Workers

For you mutts who will not read the article it points out that min wages keep competition at bay this was the intention of Davis Bacon.

The idea is that through comparative advantage everyone can have a job.

E.g. If Bill Gates makes $100k per hour and can clean his office better than any janitor it would not matter as many are willing to clean the office for $15 per hour. So this mechanism keeps everyone employed.

indigenous says

The idea is that through comparative advantage everyone can have a job.

That is not comparative advantage.

Comparative advantage is a country with a mild climate making wine. Or an area with lots of snow becoming a ski resort.

Paying people shit wages because there are more people than jobs is NOT comparative advantage.

tatupu70 says

indigenous says

The idea is that through comparative advantage everyone can have a job.

That is not comparative advantage.

Comparative advantage is a country with a mild climate making wine. Or an area with lots of snow becoming a ski resort.

Paying people shit wages because there are more people than jobs is NOT comparative advantage.

Sure it is and its a full employment policy

indigenous says

If not for FED meddling we would be in the midst of a deflation because of demographics and technology.

You say that as if it were a good thing. Along with this deflation would come huge unemployment and a depression. Fed meddling is what kept us from a much worse depression.

indigenous says

If the economy were allowed to rebalance without government "help" the economy would solve itself.

lol--like it did in the 1930s before FDR?

tatupu70 says

indigenous says

If not for FED meddling we would be in the midst of a deflation because of demographics and technology.

You say that as if it were a good thing. Along with this deflation would come huge unemployment and a depression. Fed meddling is what kept us from a much worse depression.

You are conflating deflation with less prosperity. Usually the lowering of the standard of living is associated with inflation. Inflation in Wiemar was just as hard or harder on the German people as deflation in this country.

tatupu70 says

indigenous says

If the economy were allowed to rebalance without government "help" the economy would solve itself.

lol--like it did in the 1930s before FDR?

Very funny as if FDR fixed anything. The real problem was the dollar was undervalued in the 20s so there had to be a rebalancing which is what is about to happen in China now. In addition 1/3 of the banks went under causing l/3 less money supply. By the time the FED figured it out it was too late to avoid the damage. Then FDR came along with massive government intervention that completely squashed any market clearing. The US did not come out of this until foreign countries started buying war goods. NOT the usual war spending myth, which the Keynesians said we must keep up the spending or we would go into another depression, in other words 180 deg wrong.

sbh says

Reality says

Depends on how that money gets there. If by government bureaucratic redistribution

There need not be new gov. jobs to raise the minimum wage.

Raising minimum wage doesn't "get there" at all, in fact goes in the opposite direction: Raising minimum wage benefit higher income earners at the expense of lower income earners, whose jobs get destroyed. For example, if an experienced worker can make 200 widgets in an hour and is paid $15/hr; two less experienced workers each can make 120 widgets an hour and are paid $7.50/hr each. With these parameters, the employer can consider hiring two newbies instead of an experienced worker if he has the time to train newbies. With minimum wage raised to $10/hr, the two newbies literally get banned from being hired, and the employer can only hire the experienced worker.

sbh says

Luckily they are relegated to re-working the past to fit their scripture since no one in power is foolish enough to institute their principles and give their madness a test case

If Obama could win in 2008, Cruz could win in 2016 . . .

Cruz is the perfect storm of Texas wingnut, the mirror image of Obama maxed out. His Christian fundamentalist bona fides are much stronger than Bush's, he's got an immigrant story like Obama, and he's made a name for himself with the shutdown bullshit.

On my jog yesterday I was thinking how German fascism's electoral rise came from a deeply divided populace, with the nazis promising a "compassionate nationalism" (that's where they got their name), coopting the socialist left by ostensibly rejecting the Misean strains of traditional German conservatism.

Our economy in 2016 isn't going to look like the disaster that was depression era Germany, but some of the themes are the same.

Cruz and Ryan are bullshit artists par excellence. They're the system's last and best hopes in finally killing and burying the welfare state that arose 1950-1980 and has been under attack since then (with ACA being a rare reversal for them).

So the 2014 election cycle is going to be interesting, if not pivotal. The American people have a choice again; they can go 2010 (rightward) or 2012 (leftward), and I don't know which as of now.

I *am* seeing tons more in the media about inequality etc. compared to ten years ago, so that's good at least.

sbh says

Depends on how that money gets there. If by government bureaucratic redistribution

There need not be new gov. jobs to raise the minimum wage.

Raising minimum wage doesn't "get there" at all. Raising minimum wage benefit higher income earners at the expense of lower income earners, whose jobs get destroyed.

OK, so you bailed on the "government" scare-job. Thanks for that.

No I did not. Raising minimum wage just doesn't happen to be one of those events that redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor; instead, it's the other way around.

sbh says

If you insist on setting parameters in order to give advantage to your argument you needn't converse with anyone but yourself. Minimum wage "get's there" the same way it always does: it's enacted. And the experienced worker will just holdout for more in wages as a result. The jobs don't get destroyed, the wage rate gets destroyed.

I did not at all set up contrived parameters. Do you not believe that workers make twice as much as minimum wage can be close to twice as productive as a newbie? Raising minimum wage effectively protects the experienced worker against competition from newbies. Jobs get destroyed here all the time: look at the automatic check-out machine, look at the assembly robots, look at Chindia.

sbh says

In a previous example you suggested how few in America make MW and how little an increase would help the economy. If that's the case then the resulting costs passed on to consumers would be lesser still as more people who make above MW would help absorb those the increase. I bet there would be no noticeable increase at all. It's just fear-mongering.

I'm not concerned about inflation resulting from raising minimum wage. I'm concerned about low-end jobs being destroyed leaving the youth permanently unemployed as they can't get started on the ladder for legal jobs. They would then have to resort to the illegal job market in order to make a living. When legit jobs are made illegal, they will have to have illegal jobs. There is always a labor market demand for drug trafficking and prostitution.

JodyChunder says

And yes, Henry Ford compensated his workers enough so that they could afford his product, and did so with this explicit end in mind.

Actually, he did so because people hated working there, and Ford's company town was very snoopy and intrusive, an Orwellian State. They took jobs, worked for a few months, and then skedattled at first opportunity. Ford had to offer higher wages to get workers to stay on, and he gave up his Utopian Police State idea as well.

Reality says

I'm concerned about low-end jobs being destroyed leaving the youth permanently unemployed as they can't get started on the ladder for legal jobs.

There is no ladder anymore. If you start as a burger flipper, you'll get as far as shift supervisor at maybe $9/hr max. Past that, you need to find $30k for college at least. This ain't 1955, there is no upward path for unskilled workers without massive educational costs (and then, no guarantee of a job, also unlike 1955, when it was unheard of of a college graduate not to find a middle class job almost instanteously).

Bellingham Bill says

I *am* seeing tons more in the media about inequality etc. compared to ten years ago, so that's good at least.

That is on the 2014 agenda for Obama. So the media lackies are

following Obamas lead so they spread the word across all media channels.

Min. wage is their resultion to inequalities...

No new jobs, no economic expansion no boom to hirings/careers.

This is it.. this is all you get... this is your future.

Eight stinky ass years of incompetent anti business crap from the

Democrats.

indigenous says

Another point about minimum wage is that the jobs would simply go to China, oh that's right they did...

Nothing to do with minimum wage. Are you being intentionally facile or are you just ignorant? I really can't tell.

Reality says

This is utter nonsense. Henry Ford said that for propaganda value.

Everything outside of fucking and eating is propaganda. So what's your point?

JodyChunder says

indigenous says

Another point about minimum wage is that the jobs would simply go to China, oh that's right they did...

Nothing to do with minimum wage. Are you being intentionally facile or are you just ignorant? I really can't tell.

If the Americans were willing to work for the same wages why would the jobs go offshore?