patrick.net

Struggling people buy this, and say "YEAH, Fuck those lazy workers doing public service work."

I don't remember last time I've seen a unionized government worker try in life at all. All I've seen you people do is constantly protest that you are not paid like millionnaires, while hiding behind union protection and it's racketeered benefits.

If CA runs out of money it's going to be because unions killed it with their unsustainable demands.

Vicente 2014 Apr 5, 9:25am

indigenous says

My conjecture leans toward the government being the employer of last resort, consequently hiring people who are unemployable in the free market.

Conjecture all you want, just don't mistake it for fact.

Some of us want to do something other than brown-nose executives and collect a paycheck. I did that for a while and it sucked. When I walked away from it, a few years later the company didn't exist so it was like nothing I did there mattered. Glibertopian idyll is everyone is John Galt, my work environment more resembled Office Space.

In my current arena lots of young kids come in spend a few years getting up to speed, then get hired for a huge raise out in industry. Because they now have proven skills that their resume didn't evidence before. Last kid that left jumped 66%, have to disagree how public employ is so renumerative nobody leaves.

marcus 2014 Apr 5, 11:27am

All I've seen you people do is constantly protest that you are not paid like millionnaires, while hiding behind union protection and it's racketeered benefits.

Once again your perception matches up pretty well with your intelligence.

I'm in a teachers union in one of the biggest cities in the country. We haven't had a pay raised since 2006 and had pay cuts for several of the years since plus class size increases, with many high school lasses over 40 now.

Meanwhile have you heard these protests you talk about ?

NO, because times have been tough all around and teachers aren't going to ask for what the public doesn't think they deserve.

Meanwhile all the many times you say they protested before have gotten them is pay that starts out in the mid 40s and goes up over 16 years to a max possible salary in the mid 70s (only if the person has tons of additional hours of coursework in their subject or in eduction classes or a masters degree plus many more classes).

All I can say is if they are constantly protesting that they want to be paid like millionaires, and that's what they make, in LA where a typical shack of a home start at about 450K, they are definitely FAILING with these protests.

Admit it. You blame teachers for your lack of intelligence and nonexistant critical thinking skills.

I don't remember last time I've seen a unionized government worker try in life at all.

How interesting for you, that you get to substitute your imagination and hate talk from talk radio for perception and comprehension of the world around you. It must make life ever so satisfying for you.

They say ignorance is bliss, but I don't see that it always works out that way.

indigenous 2014 Apr 5, 11:52am

Conjecture all you want, just don't mistake it for fact.

Back at ya

Last kid that left jumped 66%, have to disagree how public employ is so renumerative nobody leaves.

I did not say that, only the ones who have no skill...

Some of us want to do something other than brown-nose executives and collect a paycheck. I did that for a while and it sucked.

Is it better being a part of the Borg?

indigenous 2014 Apr 5, 1:07pm

sbh says

Aww, the idiot rediscovers ad hominem all on his own.

Not exactly, it requires that you can detect a subtle difference...

FortWayne 2014 Apr 5, 1:52pm

We haven't had a pay raised since 2006 and had pay cuts for several of the years since plus class size increases, with many high school lasses over 40 now.

Marcus you are so "entitled" that you don't even realize it. Did you lose your job? No, you were protected from that by taxpayer dollars. While in private sector, there were no raises in 2006... hell most people were lucky to keep their jobs. Plenty of people either lost them, and many took huge pay cuts.

But yeah you are in a government union, I guess you can just complain about "not getting raises". All while you still do not understand why people in private sector who do all the suffering and are not shielded by government union bureaucracy from devastating economic consequences think you people are entitled slackers.

Vicente 2014 Apr 5, 2:28pm

indigenous says

Vicente says

Conjecture all you want, just don't mistake it for fact.

Back at ya

Vicente says

Last kid that left jumped 66%, have to disagree how public employ is so renumerative nobody leaves.

I did not say that, only the ones who have no skill...

Vicente says

Some of us want to do something other than brown-nose executives and collect a paycheck. I did that for a while and it sucked.

Is it better being a part of the Borg?

I channel the protagonist of Office Space. I say what I'm thinking and do what needs to be done. Borg off!

indigenous 2014 Apr 5, 2:37pm

I channel the protagonist of Office Space. I say what I'm thinking and do what needs to be done. Borg off!

Typical of a public sector worker.

JH 2014 Apr 5, 4:10pm

No, you were protected from that by taxpayer dollars

Hahhahahahahahh and nobody in private sector was? Wake up! Besides you got all your jobs back so time to quit this whining.

marcus 2014 Apr 5, 4:11pm

Marcus you are so "entitled" that you don't even realize it. Did you lose your job? No, you were protected from that by taxpayer dollars.

OH, I thought it was simply because people's children still need to go to school and they couldn't raise class sizes above the number of desks that can fit in the room (forget about fire safety codes). A lot of teachers did lose their jobs. That's how class sizes went up.

hell most people were lucky to keep their jobs.

Yes including me, I did take a pay cut and also had bigger class sizes, which was hard for me, and not particularly great for the students either.

But yeah you are in a government union, I guess you can just complain about "not getting raises

I wasn't complaining. I was responding to your retarded nonsense about teachers protesting that they should be paid like millionaires. If that was true, why was it we didn't even protest when pay actually went down and a lot of teachers were canned?

All while you still do not understand why people in private sector who do all the suffering and are not shielded by government union bureaucracy from devastating economic consequences think you people are entitled slackers.

Yes, I don't understand that.

But what I do understand is that my job is a public service job, and I feel fortunate for that. I enjoy working with kids, and helping them as best I can.. And in as much as that is rewarding, and I'm glad I don't have be be doing work that is nothing more than chasing money - which I did before, I still want to be paid an appropriate living wage.

I also understand that you have no idea what unions do, and what they don't do. I have plenty of pressure to perform, and am increasingly evaluated by my students perfomance on tests (a topic for another time). Unions don't make us slackers, and neither do police unions or nurses unions. These are all jobs where a very high majority are conscientious about their work, in large part simply because of the nature of their work.

IF you think that public service jobs are such a sweet deal, why didn't you become a cop or a fireman or a teacher or a paramedic our a court cleark or a county hospital worker, etc ? Envy is such an unattractive human trait. I don't understand how you aren't ashamed to be the way you are.

I chalk it up to stupidity. You're too stupid to be ashamed of yourself.

IT also says a lot about you (more than you know), that you think most people that are teachers or other public service jobs are in it for the easy work or the money. I would agree that job security is probably a factor for some, but the trade off is limited upside, that they accept. Anyone that does it, who doesn't want to do that kind of work, probably isn't going to last. OR they're going to be miserable if they do.

FortWayne 2014 Apr 6, 3:37am

IF you think that public service jobs are such a sweet deal, why didn't you become a cop or a fireman or a teacher or a paramedic our a court cleark or a county hospital worker, etc ?

I worked in public sector, and I hated it. It was a public utility job, there was no drive, no passion, and a whole lot of entitlement. Wasn't my cup of tea, so I didn't stick around.

I enjoy working with kids, and helping them as best I can.. And in as much as that is rewarding, and I'm glad I don't have be be doing work that is nothing more than chasing money - which I did before, I still want to be paid an appropriate living wage.

You think the rest of us are chasing money? We all do what we like or what we can. But we are not feeling entitled to a permanent raises even when economy collapses, like you are. I don't know a single person who had a raise in 2006. I do know an architect who got a grocery store job because his company closed, I know several mechanics who took low paying jobs and closed their shops. Many of my customers were coming asking for discounts because they were either losing their jobs or taking huge pay cuts.

And what you miss, Mr. "I didn't get a raise in 06", was that it's folks in private sector who have to work to pay taxes in order for you to get paid. If we don't make money and pay taxes, there is no one to pay you. And people paying taxes, working class they don't have even half the benefits you people get. So get off your entitlement train and come to terms with reality, no one owes you anything. In this world you get what you earn, sooner or later that'll come to the state/city level too.

indigenous 2014 Apr 6, 3:46am

I worked in public sector, and I hated it. It was a public utility job, there was no drive, no passion, and a whole lot of entitlement. Wasn't my cup of tea, so I didn't stick around.

Outfingstanding post. Not that Marcus will have a clue what you are talking about.

marcus 2014 Apr 6, 5:37am

But we are not feeling entitled to a permanent raises even when economy collapses, like you are.

What ? If I say it more slowly will you get it ?

Not only do we not expect constant raises. WE have taken pay cuts and lay offs just like the private sector.

What confuses you, is that when you have a union then raises happen if and only if the union negotiates and bargains for it.

I know you aren't going to understand what I'm saying here, and I'm not finding a simple enough "sound bite" that might get through to you.

But what is happening is that you are confusing the fact that the only way we can recieve a raise, even when it's due and everyone knows it's due is when the union asks for it. This confuses you, because you periodically hear about this public union or that one asking for a raise. The fact that we get raises less often than most private sector workers, is lost on you. And btw, that's the reason I keep mentioning that we haven't had a raise since 2006. Soon you might hear about our union asking for the first raise in 7 or 8 years, and you'll be thinking, there they go again.

Not that you have the kind of mind that's open to things like logical proof, but here goes.

If you were right, that we were constantly seeking raises beyond what we deserve, or so far above what we could get in the private sector, then how is it that teacher pay is where it is ?

(of course you will cite the very most extreme examles. But there are hundreds of thousands of teachers in this country, with most represented by unions, eraning average pay of something like 45K, with an average in urban areas more like 55 - 60K ).

I've gone way beyond sound bites that you might comprehend, but this is very simple proof that most 11 year olds could understand, that you're full of shit.