patrick.net

My friends Randy (75) and Martha (74) just celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary. The people in their church call them both by the nicknames "Precious" because that's what they call each other.

mell says

I've done all of that (and still do) and writing the check is the hardest part, because you have to earn it first. This is what keeps men from quitting the rat race and taking time for themselves and their family, the constant pressure of bills having to be paid. Most people right in their head would take kids duties anytime over having to shake the hands that feed them in the corporate rat race time and time again so they can keep providing financially. I know I would have retired long ago. Kids are a beautiful thing, earning the money to pay for them is by far the hardest part, even before raising them. Trivializing two decades of financial support is pretty fucked up.

Meh...one might also say trivializing being a single mom is pretty fucked up.

I'll +1 myself, since that's a pretty good one.

ch_tah2 says

Meh...one might also say trivializing being a single mom is pretty fucked up.

THATS A "CHOICE" THE MOM MAKES !!
People should be able to take care of consequences of their CHOICES.
She is free to not do that anytime just like terminating her pregnancy.

jkaldi1 says

THATS A "CHOICE" THE MOM MAKES !!

People should be able to take care of consequences of their CHOICES.

She is free to not do that anytime just like her pregnancy.

I guess in a childish way you could look at it that way. I view raising a child as a responsibility not a choice.

I agree people should take care of the consequences of their choices - like the man who chose to have sex knowing full well that it could result in a baby.

ch_tah2 says

I agree people should take care of the consequences of their choices - like the man who chose to have sex knowing full well that it could result in a baby

ofcourse , he should be forced to take care of the child and the woman forced to carry the pregnancy if they engaged in sex. but you cannot give one the right to terminate (before birth) but not the other( after birth)

jkaldi1 says

but you cannot give one the right to terminate (before birth) but not the other( after birth)

I'm not sure I understand. Are you advocating for the right of men to be able to kill their children after birth?

You guys just keep getting crazier and crazier...

Bigsby says

Heraclitusstudent says

You believe it's ok for society to cover for the woman but not the man.

No, I didn't. I said if neither are willing to take care of the child, then what else can happen except the state stepping in.

Again. All the woman choice. She is not willing to take responsibility... so it naturally gets dumped that to the state.

Is she wants to take responsibility, then the man has no choice. In spite of the huge impact of this decision.

In essence,
- during pregnancy a women choice takes precedence over the child, the father and society... because it's her body.
- after pregnancy the child comes first, then the woman's decisions, then society, then the man who has no choice left.

ch_tah2 says

jkaldi1 says

but you cannot give one the right to terminate (before birth) but not the other( after birth)

I'm not sure I understand. Are you advocating for the right of men to be able to kill their children after birth?

You guys just keep getting crazier and crazier...

no , the right of men to not do anything with the child. if a woman has the right to kill a baby before pregnancy , the man should atleast be able to abandon a child. if mom want to raise the kid , thats her choice.

the woman cannot say that she wants to raise the kid and force the man to pay just like the man cannot say that he can pay for pregnancy and force her to carry it.

Bigsby says

And what I want is for the fathers to have some obligation towards the children they helped bring into the world. Preferably physically in their lives. If not, then financially. Obviously we disagree on this

It's clear that you think it's ok to force men to spend 18 yrs working for something whether they agree or not.

I think you don't even realize your own biases on the matter.

Does the state allow men to make the pregnancy termination decision ?
If a man asks a woman to terminate a pregnancy and if she does not do that....does it not become her ONLY responsibility then ? is it not HER choice then ? the law should allow men to sign a form and send it to the woman legally so that its recorded.

IF the woman brings the child anyway, then the man should not be forced to pay at all.

jkaldi1 says

no , the right of men to not do anything with the child. if a woman has the right to kill a baby before pregnancy , the man should atleast be able to abadoin a child. if mom want to raise the kid , thats her choice.

Ok, that's a little less crazy. Wrong, but at least you aren't advocating murder. Like Bigsby previously said, we fundamentally disagree on this. I think the man shares responsibility; you guys, for some F'd up reason don't. Fortunately, most, if not all states agree with me. Probably because women have such dominance in government and business, and they have asserted their power over the whole country, and not because it is in the best interest of the children.

Over and out.

Here's a great story:

https://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/274495936.html

If I repeat this and somebody else put it on the board, sorry.

ch_tah2 says

Fortunately, most, if not all states agree with me.

They agreed with another form of injustice where one group of people had more rights than others.

It was called slavery, and the supreme court upheld it over and over again, even expanded slavery into states it wasn't legal.

komputodo says

turtledove says

Lately, there have been several threads of a similar theme to this thread, that have shown me how lucky I am to have never run into most of you in real life.

The truth is that you run into men like us everyday. You just aren't aware of it.

her husband could be one of posters here for all we care.

komputodo says

turtledove says

Lately, there have been several threads of a similar theme to this thread, that have shown me how lucky I am to have never run into most of you in real life.

The truth is that you run into men like us everyday. You just aren't aware of it.

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1992-06-07/

Men have been evolved by women to be inveterate, extravagant grandiose liars and bullshit artists. When women ask you for the truth, what they really want is a more palatable, convincing, groveling, ingratiating, flattering lie.

If you actually tell them the truth, you are instant Darwinian road kill.

komputodo says

Ceffer says

If you actually tell them the truth, you are instant Darwinian road kill.

Like the classic "honey, do I look fat in these pants?"

Yes.

You should really eat less and spend more time at the gym. And get quality cosmetic surgery and a decent dye job for God's sake, you're starting to look your age!

How's that for honesty?

Rin says

Since we'll be having cybernetic companions in 10-20 years, think about how many smart phone addicts we have already, I think it's highly likely that human companionship, outside of the hospice industry, will not be that important in the long run.

It sounds like you play a lot of video games and maybe a good bit or role playing games. You seem to have a vivid imagination.

bg says

Rin says

Since we'll be having cybernetic companions in 10-20 years, think about how many smart phone addicts we have already, I think it's highly likely that human companionship, outside of the hospice industry, will not be that important in the long run.

It sounds like you play a lot of video games and maybe a good bit or role playing games. You seem to have a vivid imagination.

He's not the only one:

jkaldi1 says

ofcourse , he should be forced to take care of the child and the woman forced to carry the pregnancy if they engaged in sex. but you cannot give one the right to terminate (before birth) but not the other( after birth)

It would seem that according to your logic, you have the choice to terminate the life of the child after birth. It does come with a number of consequences if you get caught.

Both men and women know the risks that go with having sex. So the woman has more rights over termination of the pregnancy. Is that really so terribly unjust? If you are that worried about it, can't you get snipped? That is reversible down the road, right? it is a minor surgery compared to the discomforts of carrying a child. It seems like a fair trade. Then you could have all the sex you want without having to face all of the injustice of not being able to kill your off-spring, right?

mell says

This is what keeps men from quitting the rat race and taking time for themselves and their family, the constant pressure of bills having to be paid. Most people right in their head would take kids duties anytime over having to shake the hands that feed them in the corporate rat race time and time again so they can keep providing financially. I know I would have retired long ago. Kids are a beautiful thing, earning the money to pay for them is by far the hardest part, even before raising them. Trivializing two decades of financial support is pretty fucked up.

Mell,

This dance of having to earn money and being unable to retire WHILE ALSO BEING THE PRIMARY CARETAKER for a child is very difficult for the female custodial parents. Women feel the same financial burdens. We aren't off shopping and doing our nails just because the father sends a check. In the experience of my divorced female friends, it isn't the case that any of them has the option of not working full time due to the child support they receive. I think there are some serious stereotypes floating around in this conversation.

The Original Bankster says

they are reduced to being sexual objects only - and they are so messed up emotionally and intellectually that they often spend most of the money they make on their jobs on plastic surgery, cosmetics and tons of clothes they think will make them look good, in a desperate attempt to stay or become more attractive. Well, they have no other qualities attractive to men, so what else can we expect? This is the fruit of feminism. The fruit of "women's liberation"."

Oh, this is a silly, trollish post. I got here from reading the "best of" for the week. Silly me. Maybe I should go get some surgery and new clothes now. Reading is SO HARD!

Another absurd quote from the OP:

The Original Bankster says

This is the fruit of feminism. The fruit of "women's liberation"."

I think there are very valuable fruits of feminism, other than objectification.

How about voting or owning property?

Maybe you were painting with a bit of a broad brush.

Well, your point is made. I think you are missing a lot in your perspective. I wouldn't speak so broadly about American men or women. I would put myself in a situation of missing what I perceive to be the reality of human diversity.

I think the OP is a bit of a misogynist.

People choose their perspectives for a variety of reasons.

thunderlips11 says

o no matter if he takes precautions and lets his intentions be known, even if they are agreed upon, he is utterly at the mercy of a woman's choice once pregnancy occurs.

That's not a choice.

Get snipped before you have sex. Then you have nothing to worry about. Isn't that a choice?

bg says

This dance of having to earn money and being unable to retire WHILE ALSO BEING THE PRIMARY CARETAKER for a child is very difficult for the female custodial parents. Women feel the same financial burdens.

They don't unless they are forced to pay child support/alimony in the other direction. Everybody has existential pressure to make a living, single or partnered, with kids or not. But nobody faces that pressure so much as those who are forced to pay child support/alimony and take care of themselves at the same time - under the threat of going to jail!

Furthermore, quite a few men would like to keep the money and be the primary caretaker, because despite the effort of raising a kid, they can at least enjoy their kid for the money they pay, but they have no say in this decision at all and often are granted measly visitors rights. They'd gladly take the kid(s) if they had a choice.

bg says

We aren't off shopping and doing our nails just because the father sends a check. In the experience of my divorced female friends, it isn't the case that any of them has the option of not working full time due to the child support they receive.

They could depending on the wealth of their ex-husband, but at the minimum they have a much easier financial footing with the current laws which are clearly utterly unjust, and they are responsible for the trend of declining marriages. Stereotypes aside, I think you can have a good time (I know I have as my visual preference is caucasian), I just would advise against marriage (and tread super careful wrt kids). But if one has to get married, they better have an ironclad prenup signed well ahead of time. No exceptions.

komputodo says

bg says

I think the OP is a bit of a misogynist.

If a man loves women but dislikes AMERICAN women, does that make him a misogynist? Just askin...

Saying anything negative about women, even constructive criticism of a small subset of them, gets you labeled a misogynist in this country.

Dan8267 says

komputodo says

bg says

I think the OP is a bit of a misogynist.

If a man loves women but dislikes AMERICAN women, does that make him a misogynist? Just askin...

Saying anything negative about women, even constructive criticism of a small subset of them, gets you labeled a misogynist in this country.

Forget about labels, protect your wallet. Let the label makers have their field day, since they can't do much else.

mell says

Furthermore, quite a few men would like to keep the money and be the primary caretaker, because despite the effort of raising a kid, they can at least enjoy their kid for the money they pay, but they have no say in this decision at all and often are granted measly visitors rights. They'd gladly take the kid(s) if they had a choice.

This is institutionalized sexism. There is not a shred of scientific evidence that men are inferior parents to women.

Unless a woman is breastfeeding, there is no excuse why women should get automatic primary custody.

More female privilege.

Especially when it comes to male children.

thunderlips11 says

This is institutionalized sexism. There is not a shred of scientific evidence that men are inferior parents to women.

Call it Crazy says

Where the problem lies is with YOU and other men who LACK the ability to separate the bad ones from the good ones.

you sound like an expert in dating. i hope you are more skilled there than you are in real estate.

Look, the trick to woman hunting is to get them from rural areas where they have old fashioned values, probably some kind of religion that requires them to be reasonable, and know that the man rules the house. Plenty of these women around, but BOY are they hard to find! It's because they won't be in the usual places. You'll have to get creative, maybe join a church or a 4-H program to find them.

Otherwise you'll have to do something like I did. Marry a beautiful, highly intelligent, highly motivated woman, and then try like mad to hang on for the ride of your life! It's my second job, I swear.

Quigley says

Look, the trick to woman hunting is to get them from rural areas where they have old fashioned values, probably some kind of religion that requires them to be reasonable, and know that the man rules the house. Plenty of these women around, but BOY are they hard to find! It's because they won't be in the usual places. You'll have to get creative, maybe join a church or a 4-H program to find them.

Is this the song for that ideal, "Dream Weaver" ...

http://www.youtube.com/embed/n-DmAh0dObI

This entire thread is horseshit of the highest order from bitter and twisted men. The plural of anecdote isn't data. All the women in my family had kids and no comestic surgery. No tattoos either. If locally born women were really turned into sterile Barbies by feminism, that would have happened in the bra-burning 60's and most of the posters wouldn't be here.

These bitter, twisted, infantile, ego locked, whimpering, sex battered misogynists need some radical therapy.

Rin says

Dan8267 says

komputodo says

bg says

I think the OP is a bit of a misogynist.

If a man loves women but dislikes AMERICAN women, does that make him a misogynist? Just askin...

Saying anything negative about women, even constructive criticism of a small subset of them, gets you labeled a misogynist in this country.

Forget about labels, protect your wallet. Let the label makers have their field day, since they can't do much else.

Agreed. It's a defensive mechanism to make oneself feel better, so no hard feelings ;) Now Ceffer is onto something here - p p p punish me!

komputodo says

Like the classic "honey, do I look fat in these pants?"

Appropriate response:
It's the fat that makes you look fat!!!

bg says

Get snipped before you have sex. Then you have nothing to worry about. Isn't that a choice?

That's pretty much your best choice right now yes.

Some people should have spent at least 2 minutes looking at the source of where this came from to begin with and who was saying what was being said in the interview.

Call it Crazy says

So, why don't you write one of your multi-page dissertation and explain it to us... Make sure to blame the GOP in it so you can be consistent in your rants!!

I'm un-ignoring you temporarily but why don't you actually go do a quick wiki on the source of the comments made? It has nothing to do with the GOP. This post serves no purpose. Its based on nothing more than gross generalization.