patrick.net

It is just the business cycle and what will turn out to be malinvestment.

Without the Yellin put or Abenomics I would say it might expose the charade but with I doubt it.

I mean will the stock market ever correct?

indigenous says

It is just the business cycle and what will turn out to be malinvestment.

Yes and physical malinvestments (oil/real estate) are the first to go bust as they cant be propped up as easily like paper assets (stocks)

But its more than a cycle, its intention dumping of excess production by Saudi Arabia

smaulgld says

Yes and physical malinvestments (oil/real estate) are the first to go bust as they cant be propped up as easily like paper assets (stocks)

Good point

smaulgld says

But its more than a cycle, its intention dumping of excess production by Saudi Arabia

Which will make it less malleable in the future?

Technology produces a black swan who knows what technology there will be in the future maybe oil will become irrelevant.

Bubbabear says

Crude Crash Set To Continue After Arab Emirates Hint $40 Oil Coming Next!!!

Will CNN report the Arab Spring celebration of the return of normal?
They reported the hungry mobs as protestors looking for democracy, I wonder what they will call a ticker tape parade?

indigenous says

Technology produces a black swan who knows what technology there will be in the future maybe oil will become irrelevant.

as is always the case with technology but powerful entrenched interests can stave off better technology longer than the Fed can sustain bubbles

Bubbabear says

smaulgld says

It won't last because OPEC will slam the breaks on production as soon as they have achieved the result they want and prices will snap back fast-but not for a while

Crude Crash Set To Continue After Arab Emirates Hint $40 Oil Coming Next!!!

http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/business/oil-40-possible-market-transforms-caracas-tehran/

Yep my point isn't that oil will snap back any time soon- it will snap back after the Saudis achieve their objective and that wont be for a while and after prices are even lower

http://shalebubble.org/

bgamall4 says

smaulgld says

but mostly an attack on shale oil competition

Not sure about that. The US obviously believes that Russia will be weakened and we have had people calling for the bailout of the shale industry, already.

made that point too in the post and audio-Russia is a target and the potential of a shale oil bailout

bgamall4 says

Half the CME trades may be fake, according to a lawsuit pending. So the drop in prices is likely done by the financial sector as well.

Agree that financial sector can manip up or down but this is clearly a flooding of supply driving the price down

bgamall4 says

smaulgld says

bgamall4 says

Half the CME trades may be fake, according to a lawsuit pending. So the drop in prices is likely done by the financial sector as well.

Agree that financial sector can manip up or down but this is clearly a flooding of supply driving the price down

But supply has been flooded for years.

to your point
"arguing market weakness did not reflect supply and demand fundamentals and could have been driven by speculators."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/14/us-opec-oil-badri-idUSKBN0JS06F20141214

AND this telling quote:

head of OPEC said on Sunday the group had no target price for oil, and production, saying the United States would continue to rely on Middle East crude for many years.

Why is there not more use of natural gas? I mean I read where the US is the Saudis of NG.

bgamall4 says

Again, the cabal wants the US wedded to the middle east.

You give them a lot of credit?

indigenous says

Why is there not more use of natural gas? I mean I read where the US is the Saudis of NG.

Natural gas requires pipelines and its expensive to transport via ship

I find the whole thing hilarious.

Now my Fox News relatives who were SCREECHING about Keystone XL pipeline, will be SOOO redfaced when it's all closed down. Their Oil Baron masters who assured them a bright future with JOBS let them down again.

Vicente says

I find the whole thing hilarious.

Now my Fox News relatives who were SCREECHING about Keystone XL pipeline, will be SOOO redfaced when it's all closed down. Their Oil Baron masters who assured them a bright future with JOBS let them down again.

The financial industry/Wallstreet who loaned or provided the equity will get his even harder-20% of junk bonds are in this sector

Vicente says

I find the whole thing hilarious.

Now my Fox News relatives who were SCREECHING about Keystone XL pipeline, will be SOOO redfaced when it's all closed down. Their Oil Baron masters who assured them a bright future with JOBS let them down again.

When Keystone fell through, all my dreams died. Now I just sit and stare.

Sometimes I hear a horn honk in the distance, but it's probably just the wind.

HydroCabron says

When Keystone fell through, all my dreams died. Now I just sit and stare.

Without that pipeline, we lost 300-million jobs.

I think all that's left now is apprenticing for Meth Lab Tech.

Vicente says

HydroCabron says

When Keystone fell through, all my dreams died. Now I just sit and stare.

Without that pipeline, we lost 300-million jobs.

I think all that's left now is apprenticing for Meth Lab Tech.

Without the pipeline and because of our reluctance to extend unemployment benefits this country has probably lost around a billion or two jobs every year
Why do we hate the job creators?

No worries gang!

Mitch is going to save us all by passing that Keystone XL bill first thing in 2015.

Throw in some Wall Street handouts and maybe outlaw abortion to boot.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

smaulgld says

Without the pipeline and because of our reluctance to extend unemployment benefits this country has probably lost around a billion or two jobs every year

I would think Buffet owning the Burlington Northern has something to do with it.

Vicente says

No worries gang!

Mitch is going to save us all by passing that Keystone XL bill first thing in 2015.

Throw in some Wall Street handouts and maybe outlaw abortion to boot.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

Boehner will be crying tears of joy!

Source: Gail Tverberg

an interesting comparison...

The real reason for falling oil prices
http://youtu.be/PRrwmrZ0sAQ

Bubbabear says

The real reason for falling oil prices

http://youtu.be/PRrwmrZ0sAQ

The first video provided a better explanation!

Bubbabear says

The real reason for falling oil prices

http://youtu.be/PRrwmrZ0sAQ

Nothing there -it's BOTH
Hit the US AND hit the Russians And Iran

The US knows that if it gets too bad for us shale and the derivatives/market they will bail them out

The actions also reflect the military lobby exercising its muscle over the oil lobby

Bubbabear says

The real reason for falling oil prices

http://youtu.be/PRrwmrZ0sAQ

The guy in that video is oblivious to the strained US saudi relations
Saudi arabia is flexing its muscles
SA wanted the US to take care of syria iran and its supporter Russia and it didnt

landtof says

Source: Gail Tverberg

an interesting comparison...

Where is the demand and usage on this chart? Without those it's meaningless. You know, the supply AND demand thing.

bgamall4 says

smaulgld says

bgamall4 says

Half the CME trades may be fake, according to a lawsuit pending. So the drop in prices is likely done by the financial sector as well.

Agree that financial sector can manip up or down but this is clearly a flooding of supply driving the price down

But supply has been flooded for years.

No it hasn't. But keep thinking it's all a zionist plot.

sbh says

Sit and watch the lightning in the distance, but the showers never come.

it's all political- no pipeline -it was stopped for environmental reasons BUT fracking which probably creates longer term environmental damage went on.
Which creates more jobs or environmental damage? probably didn't factor into any decisions, just who lobbied with the most dollars

Of course! China does not have 5000 nukes and a tendency to invade those around them...

Peter P says

smaulgld says

Are Lower Oil Prices the Result of a Directive from The U.S. to Saudi Arabia to Harm Russia?

Of course not! At what cost? Strengthening China?

Depends on the meaning of 'revolves'...

smaulgld says

There aren't any. The debate is over.

Yep the sun revolves around the earth its settled

smaulgld says

Bubbabear says

The real reason for falling oil prices

http://youtu.be/PRrwmrZ0sAQ

The guy in that video is oblivious to the strained US saudi relations

Saudi arabia is flexing its muscles

SA wanted the US to take care of syria iran and its supporter Russia and it didnt

Just another oblivious expansion

http://youtu.be/YIbc5b9Yqdc

Bubbabear says

smaulgld says

Bubbabear says

The real reason for falling oil prices

http://youtu.be/PRrwmrZ0sAQ

The guy in that video is oblivious to the strained US saudi relations

Saudi arabia is flexing its muscles

SA wanted the US to take care of syria iran and its supporter Russia and it didnt

Just another oblivious expansion

http://youtu.be/YIbc5b9Yqdc

Lol trying to distract Putin! as if they/he cant focus on anything but falling oil prices

That video assumes the Fed is the only central bank.

indigenous says

That video assumes the Fed is the only central bank.

The video makes plenty of assumptions and assertions stated as fact-information like that is no better than the misinformation that he claims the main stream media produces.

smaulgld says

The video makes plenty of assumptions and assertions stated as fact-information like that is no better than the misinformation that he claims the main stream media produces.

Not that I disagree with the Austrian/Libertarian view, but it does make one think negatively, passing by opportunities or not doing anything and getting eaten up by inflation.

indigenous says

Not that I disagree with the Austrian/Libertarian view, but it does make one think negatively, passing by opportunities or not doing anything and getting eaten up by inflation.

Not being in the stock market because you think its a "fake paper game" means you have missed out on gains.
Check out the this discussion on patnet http://patrick.net/?p=1274767

bob2356 says

Where is the demand and usage on this chart? Without those it's meaningless. You know, the supply AND demand thing.

yeah i know - the central bank bicycle pump kind of demand.