patrick.net

marcus says

If you think it's even worth questioning whether we give terrorists reasons to hate America you're evil and you're wrong.

That's how the military industrial complex wants us all to think, he is just following what government wants him to do.

indigenous says

And not once will it occur to Dan that this is all done through the government.

Um honey, I know that government did that, or more specifically, the assholes jerks like you put in office did it.

The solution to bad government isn't anarchy. It's voting conservatives out of office.

Call it Crazy says

Dan8267 says

I have no idea what you're talking about,

That sums it up! Just another day on Patnet with Dan.

If I have no idea what you are talking about it is because you are being unintelligible.

Dan8267 says

It's voting conservatives out of office.

Conservatives generally want smaller government. You sure sound like a Democrat.

Dan8267 says

If I have no idea what you are talking about it is because you are being unintelligible.

I have no trouble following him, hell I even understand you and the Wogster, except you two are wrong.

indigenous says

Conservatives generally want smaller government.

Bullshit. The warfare industry, the police state, and the war on drugs all independently disprove that.

indigenous says

smaulgld says

He wishes the neo cons controlled it so they could indoctrinate and make people do what they want.

What is the neo con agenda? Or blind spot?

Neo con agenda?
Forced unopposed justification for wars against "terrororists" because america is "good"(increased military spending), forced defense of "moral" behavior" (drug war,teaching of anti promiscuity by the government) forced imposition of curriculum in school that does not teach progressive thought.

In short he wants the government to impose his view of the world and is pissed off the the liberals use it to impose theirs.

The solution isn't "protecting" traditional marriage or providing same sex marital rights but rather offering no state sponsored benefits or imposing penalties for being married or single. "Liberals" and "conservatives" then can do what they wish and not worry that they are supporting one another's life styles

I disagree that voting solves anything- conservatives win the ballot and ban gay marriage, liberals win and use the schools to teach gay marriage relativism.
Both ballot solutions just put the government moral stick and funding in the ideology that wins the most votes.

It comes down to contract law. The state should enforce contracts between consenting adults
The government should not provide special rights for those that have entered into contracts other than the rights provided in the contract
Ex:you buy a house- the government protects your ownership but shouldnt give you special tax treatment
You get married the government should protect your choice to have your affairs handed over to your spouse in case of incapacitation but not provide special tax breaks
All special rights and benefits emanating from government and its ability to enforce its will in wars (foreign, drug or otherwise) come from the very fact that the government has collected so much money in taxes that it has so much to fight over.
Begging or petitioning the government to respect or reject marital rights presupposes that government grants you these rights in the first place rather than respecting your own right to voluntarily arrange your own affairs as you see fit

It gets even more out of hand when both parties further petition the government to officially PROMOTE their marital choices. (DOMA/ teaching of same sex marriage in schools)

smaulgld says

In short he wants the government to impose his view of the world and is pissed off the the liberals use it to impose theirs

Wow you actually watched the video, thanks.

Fair enough, can't argue that the Rs don't have the war agenda. I don't remember him talking about the same sex marriage thing, but that is a R thing.

Blind spots, memes on both sides. The government dispensing either flavor as long as they get their vigorish, but at 18% of the GDP it is getting out of hand.

Dan8267 says

Bullshit. The warfare industry, the police state, and the war on drugs all independently disprove that.

They will argue that "war is temporary", Hillary is as hawkish as McCain, O did not slow down on any war efforts.

The police state is more D than R. The war on drugs was sure as fuck continued by O, Holder and Fast and Furious, ring a bell?

indigenous says

The police state is more D than R.

Hardly. Democrats aren't liberals by any means, but Republicans are batshit crazy tyrants.

Dan8267 says

Hardly. Democrats aren't liberals by any means, but Republicans are batshit crazy tyrants.

As pointed out by Ryan, both sides are full of shit. BTW so are you.

I love the fact that you conservatives hate me. It shows how much you fear me.

Dan8267 says

I love the fact that you conservatives hate me. It shows how much you fear me.

Right, you live a weird world...

Ah denial, you like Worf are accustom to it.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/edflm7Hh3hs

Dan8267 says

Ah denial, you like Worf are accustom to it.

Like I said you live in weird world, I'm that one asking why?

Yes, humor must be an alien concept to a soulless old fart like you.

Dan8267 says

indigenous says

Conservatives generally want smaller government.

Bullshit. The warfare industry, the police state, and the war on drugs all independently disprove that.

War on drugs isn't a bad war, I've seen plenty of people in my generation as well as next generation get hooked and have their lives screwed up. And many turn into homeless and crime, and it's us who have to see that suffering and pay for it.

I know you libbies like to smoke pot and other hard drugs, but you people sure as hell don't want to deal with consequences, you like taxpayers to deal with consequences of your irresponsibility. So as long as you people are irresponsible with drugs, there will and should be a war on them until you people learn to make smarter decisions in life.

Liberals are immature adults, that's all it is.

Liberals want to do as they please, and act irresponsibly, but they do NOT want to live with consequences of their irresponsible actions. They want society to take care of them.

They want to be promiscuous, but they want society to take care of them when they catch STD's.

They want to do drugs, but want society to take care of them when those drugs turn them into completely losers with no jobs, money or family.

They took out a lot of HELOCS they couldn't pay, but expected society to still let them keep their houses...

They want equality of everything and anything, it doesn't matter that men and women are different physically. It doesn't matter that some people work harder or smarter than others. Liberals, just like small children who are not mature yet, want equal outcomes on everything because everyone getting equal amount of ice cream makes their 5 year old mentality satisfied.

FortWayne says

War on drugs isn't a bad war

Have to disagree on this one. I don't think there would be anymore drug use if it was legal. I have taken every drug known to mankind, I don't take any drugs and haven't for decades and rarely alcohol.

The downside is that in the US 80% of convicts are there for drug charges. At a cost of how much? In Calif IIRC a 100k a year.

How many people get killed in the drug wars?

I hear what you are saying and can't even remember how many friends have died from drug related incidents. But respectfully disagree.

FortWayne says

Liberals are immature adults, that's all it is.

Liberals want to do as they please, and act irresponsibly, but they do NOT want to live with consequences of their irresponsible actions. They want society to take care of them.

Every person owns his or her own life and should have the liberty to do with their extremely limited life whatever they believe makes the most of it as long as they are not infringing upon the rights of other. What you propose is a nanny state that forces people to conform to some arbitrary and often hypocritical behavior set forth by a few people chosen for no good reason to be moral authorities. When you are forced to conform to Sharia Law by people just like you, but born into Islam, you'll change your tune.

FortWayne says

War on drugs isn't a bad war, I've seen plenty of people in my generation as well as next generation get hooked and have their lives screwed up. And many turn into homeless and crime, and it's us who have to see that suffering and pay for it.

Drug addiction is an incredibly small problem compared to the cost of diseases due to malnutrition, mainly sugar/hfcs/carbs and processed food, let alone cigarettes and alcohol. The war on drugs never prevented the addicts to get their crack, only jacked up the prices and increased crime on all fronts. If you want your taxes lowered and drug-related crime reduced you should advocate the legalization of drugs. Also, if you champion civil liberties against oppression from NSA or police, you cannot in turn deny someone the liberty to consume their favorite substances, even if you think it's a "liberal" problem (which it isn't). If you commit a victim-ful crime, you should face the same consequences, regardless whether you were under any influence or not. If you don't harm anybody with your habits, why prosecute? Lastly the war on drugs has prevented progress on the medical front for way too long as quite a few drugs have interesting and useful medical properties, cannabis being the leader. It's a shame that many people didn't get potentially life-saving treatments for such a long time just because some big-government, bigoted assholes who benefit from the corruption surrounding the war on drugs have had it their way for way too long, spewing misinformation about almost any kind of drug to keep the charade going.

mell says

Drug addiction is an incredibly small problem compared to the cost of diseases due to malnutrition, mainly sugar/hfcs/carbs and processed food, let alone cigarettes and alcohol.

What is interesting is that a lot of drug addiction is caused by malnutrition. E.G. Alcohol and a deficiency in vitamin B1, in conjunction with vitamin C, methamphetamine and a deficiency in calcium and magnesium.

FortWayne says

They want to be promiscuous, but they want society to take care of them when they catch STD's.

You're noting thinking of liberals. You're thinking of men.

And being responsible means using condoms. They stop STDs. Period.

And really, how disingenuous are you being? Is your problem with polygamous relationships really based on STDs? When science eliminates all STDs -- and yes, that is going to happen -- will you have no objections to fornication?

Like all conservatives, you cannot honestly state your real reasons for supporting a position because your real reasons are stupid.

FortWayne says

They want to do drugs, but want society to take care of them when those drugs turn them into completely losers with no jobs, money or family.

I'm a liberal and I've never done any drugs, legal or not, in my life. Nor would I even if the illegal ones were legal. I'm against the war on drugs because

1. Innocent people have been murdered by cops because of it.
2. It has increased violence in our society.
3. It has created a militarized police state that terrorizes communities.
4. It has stripped us of basic human and civil rights.
5. It wastes vast amounts of tax payer dollars.
6. It increases crime and decreases the effectiveness of law enforcement.

As for jobs, I've been making six figures every year since 1998. How exactly are we liberals jobless and penniless? Smart people tend to be liberals, and smart people tend to make a lot more money than you dumb asses.

FortWayne says

They took out a lot of HELOCS they couldn't pay, but expected society to still let them keep their houses...

No, your thinking of Boomers and the older half of Generation X. Liberalism had nothing to do with the housing bubble. It's conservatives who believe that greed is good and that you should make vasts amounts of money by owning things instead of by producing wealth.

FortWayne says

They want equality of everything and anything, it doesn't matter that men and women are different physically.

We want equality under law. You are against that but cannot justify it, so you make Straw Man arguments instead.

Need I remind you?
http://www.youtube.com/embed/V7Brh9iWajc
http://www.youtube.com/embed/QTwKOCILJl0

The fact that men and women have different genitalia does not justify homosexual couples being taxed more than heterosexual couples are not getting military survival benefits.

If you dumb ass conservatives didn't want the state to recognize same-sex marriage, then you shouldn't have created tens of thousands of laws that use the word marriage. The state shouldn't have recognized marriage in the first place if it's a religious institution. As soon as there exists a legal, secular institution for households, then that legal, secular institution must obey the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. To say otherwise is Unamerican.

FortWayne says

It doesn't matter that some people work harder or smarter than others.

You mean people like Tim Berners-Lee who invented the World Wide Web that is responsible for trillions of dollars of wealth generation each years and yet he never become rich while Mark Zuckerberg became filthy rich while producing no wealth and doing no work?

Or do you mean Edgar Codd, the inventor of relation databases, a technology that transformed our world and has impacted ever single aspect of life from government to commerce to law enforcement to military action to scientific research to education? You know, Codd, who lived a middle class lifestyle his entire life while Larry Ellison, a moron who couldn't write a SQL query nonetheless implement a relational database management system, became a filthy billionaire simply by owning a company through which he siphoned off the wealth production of hundreds of hard working, smart developers.

Capitalism does not reward working hard or smart or even producing wealth. Capitalism rewards one and only one thing, bargaining power.

Don't blame liberalism for the problems of capitalism.

By the way, capitalism is the greatest affront to your fictitious god. Jesus Christ only got pissed off once, and it was at the bankers. You false holy book says that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. You god Jesus Christ demands that you abandon your wealth to follow him. From the most sacred part of your wretched Bible...

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

Mattew 19:21-24

You Christians are such god-damn hypocrites.

FortWayne says

Liberals, just like small children who are not mature yet, want equal outcomes on everything because everyone getting equal amount of ice cream makes their 5 year old mentality satisfied.

Immaturity is dismantling 800 years of progress in Western Civilization because you are scared of a boogieman. The despicable conservatives did just this when they removed the right of habeas corpus, enjoyed since the Manga Carter 1215, in a futile attempt to combat the very terrorism they created by destabilizing the Middle East.

And don't even get me started on who the real moochers are in the United States.

Maine is the only blue state on that list. It's 90% red.

And as far as freeloaders go, well it's all red states as well.

So you conservatives are complete hypocrites when it comes to working hard and not accepting government handouts. I'm a hard-core liberal and I've never taken a handout from government, charity, or anyone else. And I've worked 80+ hours a week, so don't even get me started on which of us is harder working. Not to mention a single hour of my productivity exceeds a month of yours.

So quite your bullshitting about what liberals want. Unlike conservatives, we liberals are completely honest and straight about what we want and why. Our reasons for wanting things isn't shameful like your reasons are, so we don't have to hide them.

Dan8267 says

Every person owns his or her own life and should have the liberty to do with their extremely limited life whatever they believe makes the most of it as long as they are not infringing upon the rights of other. What you propose is a nanny state that forces people to conform to some arbitrary and often hypocritical behavior set forth by a few people chosen for no good reason to be moral authorities. When you are forced to conform to Sharia Law by people just like you, but born into Islam, you'll change your tune.

You can't do whatever you want if you expect society to take care of you if you screw up. The society you liberals want, that's middle east, feel free to start a gang, a warlord society, do as you please... no government to tell you to stop. But the rest of us want to live in civilized orderly society, not in stone age like liberals.

mell says

Drug addiction is an incredibly small problem compared to the cost of diseases due to malnutrition, mainly sugar/hfcs/carbs and processed food, let alone cigarettes and alcohol.

I have seen plenty of drug addiction problems. Don't marginalize it like it's not a problem. It is.

FortWayne says

You can't do whatever you want if you expect society to take care of you if you screw up.

Liberals don't expect that. I'm a liberal. I don't expect that. And I've never taken any handouts in my life.

Liberalism is a social philosophy, not an economic one. Now as an economic police independent of liberalism, I do believe in social safety nets because

1. They work.
2. They decrease crime.
3. They improve the economy.
4. They decrease violence in society.
5. They enable the poor to break out of the cycle of poverty thus reducing the cost of poverty.

Now, if you want to talk about people screwing up with bad behavior and then getting bailed out for it and the moral hazard of that, then you shouldn't be talking about food stamps and welfare. You should be talking about

1. The bank bailout.
2. The housing bubble bailout.
3. The bailout of the American car companies.

These are the parasites who made billions at your expense while ruining the economy. The welfare queen is the rare exception and costs so damn little that it's not even worth detecting him. In contrast, the bank bailout alone was $29 Trillion. Christ, man, try to wrap your head around that.

FortWayne says

The society you liberals want, that's middle east, feel free to start a gang, a warlord society, do as you please

Holy fuck man! Do you even hear yourself? Liberalism is the exact opposite of the Middle East. The Middle East is the exact end result of conservative policies where the state gets to decide what people do based upon a false morality and a false religion.

Things that conservatives in the U.S. have in common with the Middle East.
1. The War on Women.
2. The desire to break down the wall of separation between church and state and to set up a theocracy.
3. Restraining human sexuality.
4. Homophobia.
5. Placing people into groups that they cannot leave and basing their rights and statue in life on those groups.
6. Denying scientific fact that contradicts religion like evolution.
7. The ends justify the means.
8. There are "bad people" in the world, whether you call them terrorists or infidels is irrelevant. These "bad people" are subhuman and deserve to be tortured.
9. The state when exercising authority and enforcing the law can do no wrong. Any violence by the police or military is justified and necessary and should not be questioned.
10. Atheists are the worst people in the world.

Christ, the Middle East is a Tea Party paradise! And you, FortWayne, sound exactly like this Muslim idiot. (Coincidentally, I sound just like Dawkins.)

http://www.youtube.com/embed/-8b3vhTO248

FortWayne says

But the rest of us want to live in civilized orderly society, not in stone age like liberals.

Correction. You want to live in the Bronze Age, whereas we liberals want to live in the Information Age. Your morality and politics and social views come from the Bronze Age.

I firmly believe in rule of law, but I believe that laws should serve man not enslave him. There should be no such thing as a victimless crime for that makes innocent people into criminals and victims. Instead, the law should be about and only about protecting people's rights. That is something you conservatives will never understand.

And by the way, how stupid are you to accuse me of both advocating a nanny state and anarchy in the same damn post? Those two things are clearly mutually exclusive.

Dan8267 says

Liberals don't expect that. I'm a liberal. I don't expect that. And I've never taken any handouts in my life.

Than you must be an exception to the rule, because almost every liberal expects society to take care of them. I remember when Obama was elected and liberal media was constantly showing liberals on television who were expecting Obama to pay off their mortgages for them...

Dan8267 says

1. The War on Women.

2. The desire to break down the wall of separation between church and state and to set up a theocracy.

3. Restraining human sexuality.

4. Homophobia.

5. Placing people into groups that they cannot leave and basing their rights and statue in life on those groups.

6. Denying scientific fact that contradicts religion like evolution.

7. The ends justify the means.

8. There are "bad people" in the world, whether you call them terrorists or infidels is irrelevant. These "bad people" are subhuman and deserve to be tortured.

9. The state when exercising authority and enforcing the law can do no wrong. Any violence by the police or military is justified and necessary and should not be questioned.

10. Atheists are the worst people in the world.

1) There is no war on women, the only war on women is by liberals who want to force them out of motherhood into factories.
2) We don't got that here, liberals want everyone to worship big government and Obama.
3) That's not a bad thing, we need to do it if we want to survive.
4) It isn't phobia, we just don't like mentally ill influencing our children with their wicked ways.
5) That's liberals with their constant putting of people into black, white, hispanic groups... that's all you boys. Liberals even introduced quotas on how many blacks and whites a college should have these days, they got creative with their racism.
6) When Obama wants to pass a law, made up science is considered "evolution" now by liberals... got it.
7) Liberals
8) Torture was by right wing, not by conservatives. Those are 2 different groups with some overlap, just like some liberals are right wing too.
9) Liberals yet again
10) No, it's modern liberals who are the worst kinds of people in the world.

FortWayne says

Than you must be an exception to the rule, because almost every liberal expects society to take care of them.

I sincerely doubt you know any liberals. You don't even know what a liberal is.

FortWayne says

1) There is no war on women, the only war on women is by liberals who want to force them out of motherhood into factories.

Bullshit. First off, there are no factories in America. This is the 21st century, not the 19th. I know you live in the 19th century, but the rest of us don't.

Today people work in offices. And whether or not a woman wants to work or stay at home is her decision. By the way, women who work aren't force out of motherhood. My sister is a doctor, which is a damn hard profession that takes a lot of skill, education, and hard-work, and she is also a mother. So fuck you.

Finally, you conservatives tried to pass legislation that would have literally raped women seeking abortions. And by literally, I mean literally meeting the legal definition of rape.

“The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.” The definition is used by the FBI to collect information from local law enforcement agencies about reported rapes.

So yeah, war on women is the correct term to use.

FortWayne says

2. The desire to break down the wall of separation between church and state and to set up a theocracy.

FortWayne says

2) We don't got that here, liberals want everyone to worship big government and Obama.

WTF? Are you crazy or just pretending?

FortWayne says

3. Restraining human sexuality.

FortWayne says

3) That's not a bad thing, we need to do it if we want to survive.

1. No, you're thinking of climate change. If we want our species to survive, we have to deal with climate change, not adults having consensual protected sex.

2. The fact that you think it's a good idea to have the state constrain the sexual lives of adults exactly proves my point that you conservatives want life like in the Middle East and that your claim that we liberals are trying to establish a Middle Eastern regime is ridiculous.

3. You are an utter hypocrite. You bitch and moan about anti-poverty programs claiming that their users and even non-user proponents want the government to take care of them like a parent. Then you demand the government morally polices the population like a parent.

4. The government has never been a good parent to anyone.

FortWayne says

4) It isn't phobia, we just don't like mentally ill influencing our children with their wicked ways.

1. There is nothing wicked about homosexuality as proved by my classic thread Why the hell is gay sex immoral? Look it up yourself. You're thinking of Christianity. Christianity is wicked. It promotes slavery. Even the New Testament. Any books that advocates slavery is morally bankrupt. It also promotes letting people gang rape your daughters. Yep, that's right in the Bible, too. I could go on and on and on.

By the way, according to the Bible a rapist is allowed to take his victim as one of his wives. Isn't that nice?

2. As a parent, you have no right to prevent your child from knowing anything about the outside world and building a moral code that differs from your own. For example, you might not want to let your daughters know they can vote and don't have to marry at age 12, but that doesn't mean you can force them to live a sheltered life in some cult and partake only in the life the cult offers.

Children are people and some parents mentally harm their kids in order to impose some sick, twisted morality. You are such an example.

3. All your obvious hatred of homosexuality stems from bigotry and religion. There is no rational justification for it.

FortWayne says

5. Placing people into groups that they cannot leave and basing their rights and statue in life on those groups.

FortWayne says

5) That's liberals with their constant putting of people into black, white, hispanic groups... that's all you boys. Liberals even introduced quotas on how many blacks and whites a college should have these days, they got creative with their racism.

At this point, you are just outright lying. On behave of liberals everywhere, I will state one more time that we are against all forms of discrimination including discrimination against whites, males, and even white males.

I am against Affirmative Action because it's racist and harms people. I am against hiring quotas because they are racist and harm people. I am against Title IX because it's sexist and harms people.

If Title IX were a legitimate effort to provide sports opportunities to all people regardless of gender, then it would have applied to the boy who wanted to play soccer when there were only girls soccer teams. This case invalidates the very intent of the law.

When white firefighters were denied promotions because they did significantly better than black firefighters on written tests, designed to be objective and to eliminate the mere possibility of bias, I rallied in favor of the white firefighters. The point of the tests is to determined who the best leaders would be based on knowledge. The whites did better, so they should have been promoted, but they were denied such simply because they were white and the government wanted to protect its ass against illegitimate racial suits. That case was every bit as wrong as it would be if the races were reversed.

So I have no problem with people being promoted or hired based on their skills regardless of race or gender. For you to say otherwise is an utter, despicable lie. And my view is the liberal view. How many times must I say it for it to get into that thick ass skull of yours? Equality under law for all people. It's not a hard concept. If you don't get it, you are stupid.

FortWayne says

6. Denying scientific fact that contradicts religion like evolution.

FortWayne says

6) When Obama wants to pass a law, made up science is considered "evolution" now by liberals... got it.

You know, every single one of these points was made to show how you conservatives are just like Muslim terrorists in ISIS and Al Qaeda. By arguing the merits of these position, you confirm that comparison.

Also, you have to be a flaming retard to think that evolution is made up bullshit. Do you also think the Earth is only 6,000 years old? I mean, if that's your view on reality, your opinion on any subject matter is worthless.

FortWayne says

7. The ends justify the means.

FortWayne says

7) Liberals

You can't just make up some bullshit lie and expect people to buy it, especially when common knowledge disproves it. For example, I could say that George Washington crossed the Delaware River to fight the British in the American Revolution. It's not a counterargument for you to assert that George Bush crossed the Nile River to fight the Vulcans in the Star Wars. Real world arguments don't work that way.

FortWayne says

8) Torture was by right wing, not by conservatives. Those are 2 different groups with some overlap, just like some liberals are right wing too.

One of the most disgusting and shameful things about our country is that half of it supported torturing human beings. This is not something that our society is going to live down in the next 200 years.

However, to even suggest that liberals were for it or that blue and red state people where equally for it is an outright lie. The more conservative a person is, the more likely he is to support torture. This difference is so pronounced that it's obvious even without evidence, but that never kept me from presenting evidence anyway. From Slate

According to Pew, 51 percent say the CIA’s “interrogation” methods were justified, with a sharp partisan divide between Republicans who overwhelmingly agree the CIA was justified (76 percent), and Democrats who are less sure (37 percent).

Large majorities of Americans believe CIA techniques were torture: 73 percent for sexual threats, 70 percent for forced sleeplessness, 69 percent for waterboarding, and 57 percent for ice water baths. Nonetheless, a near-majority—49 percent—say the torture was justified to obtain information and prevent terrorist attacks. (That torture failed to yield valuable secrets from the enemy wasn’t mentioned.)

Yeah, there's enough shit to go around, but it's way more heavily concentrated into the conservative pile and although there are a lot of Democrats who are conservative slime, a liberal by definition does not support torture. If you support torture, you are NOT a liberal just like if you fuck 10 people a day for 20 years you are not a virgin.

Again, all people are equal under law. That means if anyone can legally torture another person, then all people can legally torture anyone. No one advocates that. People who are pro-torture are highly selective about who they want choosing who gets tortured.

FortWayne says

9. The state when exercising authority and enforcing the law can do no wrong. Any violence by the police or military is justified and necessary and should not be questioned.

FortWayne says

9) Liberals yet again

Really? You're trying to make the case that liberals like me are advocating letting the police commit any act of violence against public citizens and not being held accountable for it. Really? Have you ever read any post I've made in any police-related thread? Have you not seen the very long arguments that I've had with dumb and dumber (CIC and Strategist) over this very subject matter? Have you not heard of my proposals to video everything cops do?

You're accusation is paramount to accusing the Jews of committing genocide against the Nazis. How delusional are you? Do all you conservatives live in some Bizarro world where everything is backwards? Do people flush the toilet and then take a dump in it where you live? Do farm animals eat people? Is Louisiana the smartest state in the union?

FortWayne says

10) No, it's modern liberals who are the worst kinds of people in the world.

Let's see. Conservatives wanted slavery. Liberals opposed it.

Conservatives wanted segregation and a ban on interracial marriages. Liberals opposed that.

Conservatives always want to go to war. Liberals oppose undeclared wars that cannot be morally and ethically justified base on truth.

Conservatives wanted child labor in dangerous factories because children were cheap and expendable. Liberals put an end to dangerous child labor and promoted having adults do the work and retain a fair portion of their wealth production so they could feed, clothe, and educate their children.

Conservatives wanted employees to have no rights and to be forced to labor for 36 hours straight, a term called doing a turn, over vats of molten iron. Liberals got passed the 8-hour work day, 40-hour work week.

Conservatives burned "witches" who turned out to be innocent women falsely accused of consorting with fictitious characters by their neighbors for ill reasons like personal hatred or the desire to steal property. Liberals banned such witch hunts.

Conservatives lynched black families and burned crosses on their lawns. Liberals passed the Civil Rights Act, which was ironically filibustered by conservatives.

Conservatives killed 9/11 responders by denying them medical care for the diseases they contracted while saving people's lives on 9/11. Liberals, specifically Jon Steward of The Daily Show, shamed conservatives over this issue so badly that they rescinded and allowed the 9/11 responders to receive medical care. Please challenge me on this; I love posting that video.

Conservatives voted for the vile USA Patriot Act which legalized torture and removed due process from our rule of law. Liberals have and still do oppose this despicable, Unamerican act.

So no, liberals aren't the worse people in the world. Conservatives are.

Dan8267 says

I sincerely doubt you know any liberals. You don't even know what a liberal is.

I live in CA, it's a liberal mecca.

Dan8267 says

Bullshit. First off, there are no factories in America. This is the 21st century, not the 19th. I know you live in the 19th century, but the rest of us don't.

Today people work in offices. And whether or not a woman wants to work or stay at home is her decision. By the way, women who work aren't force out of motherhood. My sister is a doctor, which is a damn hard profession that takes a lot of skill, education, and hard-work, and she is also a mother. So fuck you.

Get out of your box in bay area for once in your life, we even have factories out here in Los Angeles. Shows how much you liberals know...
Every woman can't be a doctor like your sister, who is probably much smarter and accomplished than you, some women can do that, many can't. You liberals today are undoing everything great this nation accomplished in the last 50 years with your gender confused policies.

FortWayne says

mell says

Drug addiction is an incredibly small problem compared to the cost of diseases due to malnutrition, mainly sugar/hfcs/carbs and processed food, let alone cigarettes and alcohol.

I have seen plenty of drug addiction problems. Don't marginalize it like it's not a problem. It is.

I didn't say it wasn't. But the war on drugs makes matters worse and wastes a lot of taxpayer money. People with addictive personalities need to be careful with any form of addiction, be it drugs, gambling/debt or whatnot. Since you differentiate between the neocons supporting torture and warmongering (vs 'conservatives'), I'd say those are the same who support the war(mongering) on drugs whereas the Libertarian conservatives with the anti-prohibition stance have been gaining traction. Consider this data:

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/netherlands_v_us#sthash.R8MKRoP7.dpbs

Now, of course it is always difficult to compare a small, homogenous country with a large melting pot such as the US, but other countries who relaxed their drug legislation or close to completely abandoned it have produced similar data to follow-up, i.e. no increase in drug abuse, if not a decrease (abuse != use). Btw., if you use a cleaner way than smoking (i.e. vaporizing), Cannabis in moderate amounts is likely healthier than not using it at all, but at the least NOT harmful at all - that's where the data is trending towards.

mell says

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/netherlands_v_us#sthash.R8MKRoP7.dpbs

Great link, you have heard of a twofer well boys and girls this is a 100fer. Especially the prison population that is obscene.

Dan8267 says

Bullshit. First off, there are no factories in America. This is the 21st century, not the 19th. I know you live in the 19th century, but the rest of us don't.

Today people work in offices.

Here you go folks, liberal mindset in action there brought to you by Dan. If you do not work in an office, it's get an office job or fuck you.

Dan8267 says

By the way, women who work aren't force out of motherhood. My sister is a doctor, which is a damn hard profession that takes a lot of skill, education, and hard-work, and she is also a mother. So fuck you.

More liberal hatred in action by Dan. If a woman does not do both work and work as a doctor than you are not a human. Liberals despise women who want to be stay at home moms, out of bitterness. It's just like previous hateful liberal comments toward stay at home moms that were made during Obama election.

Actually this is a teaching moment, a glimpse into the mind of the elitist low information liberal....

let's see...dan sez "there are no factory jobs in america".....
fred sez there are over twelve million factory jobs in america....
fred or dan...fred or dan....hmmmm.....
danData generated by dan
FredData generated by the Economic Research Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis.

fred or dan...fred or dan....hmmmm.....

i can't decide...maybe we should let SlutBitchHoe decide since the little Beeatch shows up every time dan wipes his ass...

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Bullshit. First off, there are no factories in America. This is the 21st century, not the 19th. I know you live in the 19th century, but the rest of us don't.

Today people work in offices.

Here you go folks, liberal mindset in action there brought to you by Dan. If you do not work in an office, it's get an office job or fuck you.

They hate it because that's one less hand in the unemployment compensation jar...leading to one less libbyrachi bought and paid for vote...

FortWayne says

Liberals despise women who want to be stay at home moms, out of bitterness.

FortWayne says

If a woman does not do both work and work as a doctor than you are not a human. Liberals despise women who want to be stay at home moms, out of bitterness. It's just like previous hateful liberal comments toward stay at home moms that were made during Obama election.

There's definitely some animosity out there towards stay-at-home moms which is shameful.

Mell

Just out of curiosity, what do you read?

You have exponentially more (quantitative and qualitative) knowledge of current affairs than most.

FortWayne says

I live in CA, it's a liberal mecca.

Most of CA is redneck territory. Only the major cities are liberal.

FortWayne says

Every woman can't be a doctor like your sister, who is probably much smarter and accomplished than you

I take no offense at that; she's my sister and is damn smart like everyone in my family. Intelligence is mostly genetic. That's unfortunate for your children.

FortWayne says

Liberals despise women who want to be stay at home moms, out of bitterness.

Bullshit. I'm a liberal and I have no problem with a woman or man deciding to be a stay-at-home spouse regardless of whether or not they have children.

The fact is assholes like Reagan made it necessary for any family that plans to have children to have two incomes. A single median income is not sufficient to raise a family in this country anymore thanks to your demigod Reagan. He squeezed out the middle class.

If you really wanted women to have the option of being stay-at-home moms, you'd do everything to reverse every single economic policy made by the Republican Party in the past 40 years. Economics, not liberal culture, is the reason women don't have the option of not working.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Bullshit. First off, there are no factories in America. This is the 21st century, not the 19th. I know you live in the 19th century, but the rest of us don't.

Today people work in offices.

Here you go folks, liberal mindset in action there brought to you by Dan. If you do not work in an office, it's get an office job or fuck you.

Never let facts get in the way of your beliefs.

Since we're making Straw Man arguments, have you cut down the number of farm animals you molest each week to just 12 like you promised for New Year's, FortWayne?

You assertions are so fucking disingenuous.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

By the way, women who work aren't force out of motherhood. My sister is a doctor, which is a damn hard profession that takes a lot of skill, education, and hard-work, and she is also a mother. So fuck you.

More liberal hatred in action by Dan. If a woman does not do both work and work as a doctor than you are not a human. Liberals despise women who want to be stay at home moms, out of bitterness.

Way to turn a statement of pride in one's sister into an attack on women. On a conservative would attempt such an outlandish lie. There is nothing I said that even remotely suggests contempt for jobless women, whether they are married or single, parents or childless. You are simply trying to deflect from the truth.

The fact is that you conservatives attempted to pass laws to literally have women raped when they sought abortions. Regardless of your stance on abortion, using rape as a deterrent is fucking evil. So no, you don't get to make up some bullshit to defect the conservative War on Women onto liberals.

Everything you say is a direct contraction of the facts. We liberals believe that each person, man or woman, should be empowered to decide what they want to do with their lives including whether or not to pursue a career. It is you conservatives that want to force your will onto women.

Tell me and the rest of the world, exactly what problem you have with a woman making that decision for herself.

SoftShell says

let's see...dan sez "there are no factory jobs in america".....

OMG, I used a literally technique called exaggeration to make a point. A person with common sense would have realized that as the phrasing "there are no jobs in X anymore" is a common expression.

The fact is that factory jobs have plummets as shown by the graph I posted above.

But don't give me this bullshit that there are multitudes of people looking for factory jobs. That's not the reality of our economy anymore. And for you to portray that the typical 21st century American worker is a factory worker is either the epitome of ignorance or a spineless lie.

In any case, you missed the point. Reagan's fanboy was arguing that women should not be allowed either by social convention or law -- he's never clear how he wants to enforce his edicts -- to pursue gainful employment or run a business. They should all be barefoot and pregnant and anyone who says different is a misogynist. Now that's some serious bullshit.

So, do you support FortWayne's idea that women are only for breeding and raising children? Go on, support him.