patrick.net

marcus says

Rather than saying any more of what I want to say, I'll just say this. Fuck you. And welcome to ignore. Have fun spouting all your right wing bullshit. I hope your getting paid well by the Koch brothers. Not that that makes you any less of a scumbag

LOL.
marcus says

You assholes who want to say you feel sorry for my students ? That's the ultimate expression of hatred and inhumanity you can throw at me. Sadly you don't understand that. But you understand it well enough to almost know the degree to which it's hitting below the belt. I will assume that you either don't fully comprehend what it's like to have a job that is service to others, or that you do know, and are envious.

Nope, just feel sorry. You seem a little off at times -could just be you are drunk. I do feel sorry for the kids-because if this is how you respond to someone who has a different worldview-kids don't need this. Their views are being shaped by the people around them. Last thing they need is a bullying fool who explodes when anyone expresses a different view.

Good, judging by the number of people you have an ignore-you need that to stop going off the rails. Hint, if you carry on a decent conversation, most people will not throw things back at you and will try and remain decent. if you throw crap at people, people will respond in kind. Just because you slink off into a corner with a pouty puff-doesn't mean the same cycle will not repeat with another person. Which is why I feel sorry for the kids-this is an online forums, where you can retreat and act the fool. But a kid in your class, with a different worldview is stuck with you and you control his grades/punishment etc etc-that poor, poor kid... I hope you don't act this way IRL-but people are not that different.

Obama never saw a tax increase that he didn't like.

I'm with Patrick and his land tax idea. Make a land tax for funding the government and make it impossible to avoid. This will screw the mass land owners/parasites who hog the real estate for purposes of charging a buttload for rent, and keeping property values high. They have something like this in Texas, and that state is a model for home ownership at reasonable prices.

You seem to me to be a limited partnership kind of guy...

marcus says

MAybe even a far right wing defender of the interests of super-rich and corpations such as yourself

marcus says

But I'm only suggesting a small inrease, and that corposations actually pay their taxes.

drew_eckhardt says

There are too few "obscenely wealthy" and too many "grunt workers" for the wealthy's share to make a real difference.

This is just stupid. No one is suggesting the 1%'s wealth be confiscated and redistributed to everyone else. However, if they paid a larger percentage of their ill-gotten gains in taxes, everyone would be better off with better schools, better infrastructure, better research, etc.

How about tax rates based off physical work?
Anything earned without direct countable hours attached is taxed @ 50%
Anything earned with direct countable hours attached is taxed at 10%

finehoe says

However, if they paid a larger percentage of their ill-gotten gains in taxes, everyone would be better off with better schools, better infrastructure, better research, etc.

SoftShell says

How about tax rates based off physical work?

Anything earned without direct countable hours attached is taxed @ 50%

Anything earned with direct countable hours attached is taxed at 10%

Easier just to raise capital gains rates, right?

finehoe says

drew_eckhardt says

There are too few "obscenely wealthy" and too many "grunt workers" for the wealthy's share to make a real difference.

This is just stupid. No one is suggesting the 1%'s wealth be confiscated and redistributed to everyone else. However, if they paid a larger percentage of their ill-gotten gains in taxes, everyone would be better off with better schools, better infrastructure, better research, etc.

Why do you think they are ill gotten gains?? Lipstick on a pig-so you are saying just confiscate some of their gains. You may not believe it, but if this attitude becomes acceptable, then someday, some 300+ critter is going to be gunning for you. To them, a nice house in a nice suburb or a mansion in Malibu is not going to make a difference -as long as they get their welfare check -as long as it is socially acceptable to bash the givers.

There are other ways, like maybe not this much free trade-if you want higher taxes-slap it on imports or on say call center folks or IT support in other countries that take our jobs.

tatupu70 says

SoftShell says

How about tax rates based off physical work?

Anything earned without direct countable hours attached is taxed @ 50%

Anything earned with direct countable hours attached is taxed at 10%

Easier just to raise capital gains rates, right?

Obama already raised that by close to 8%. How much is enough, when are people going to want to stand on their own two feet??

For a lot of people-say like me-I have already paid taxes through payroll. When I invest in stock or other instruments , I am now paying taxes over and over and over. yet if I make losses, they won't let me deduct more than 3k a year. How much is enough-why is success penalized. That is my point, by making it seem like the 1%-more and more people are penalized. Like the AMT-originally meant for the 1% equivalent-it snares a huge amount of folks.

Once these things become enacted, it is the middle that pays. The 1% will have an army of accountants to ensure they don't pay-it is the rungs below that end up paying the price.

lostand confused says

Why do you think they are ill gotten gains??

"Behind every great fortune there is a great crime" - Honoré de Balzac

finehoe says

Honoré de Balzac

A novelist??

lostand confused says

Obama already raised that by close to 8%. How much is enough, when are people going to want to stand on their own two feet??

I'd say 50% is enough.

lostand confused says

For a lot of people-say like me-I have already paid taxes through payroll. When I invest in stock or other instruments , I am now paying taxes over and over and over. yet if I make losses, they won't let me deduct more than 3k a year. How much is enough-why is success penalized. That is my point, by making it seem like the 1%-more and more people are penalized. Like the AMT-originally meant for the 1% equivalent-it snares a huge amount of folks.

The goal would be to reduce payroll taxes and increase capital gains.

lostand confused says

Once these things become enacted, it is the middle that pays. The 1% will have an army of accountants to ensure they don't pay-it is the rungs below that end up paying the price.

Yes, you'd have to eliminate whatever loopholes exist.

tatupu70 says

The goal would be to reduce payroll taxes and increase capital gains.

Not going to work. Judging by history-you will end up with both. If you look at Europe, they have every tax imaginable and VAT on top of that. Now before I was in favor of a national sales tax-VAT-but now being a bit more realistic-we will just end up with both.

tatupu70 says

Yes, you'd have to eliminate whatever loopholes exist

In an idealistic world yes. But in reality-ain't gonna work. Look at the TPP, being negotiated in secret by Obozo. Who is driving it-the corporations and lobbyists. Any tax law changes will be built with the lobbyists, who will make sure they have even better loopholes-it is just current reality.

Now I would like for something to change and maybe hope for politicians who actually care about the majority-but until that happens-it will be the middle that will be hurt. Take Obozocare, anyone making an above decent wage will not get a subsidy. But if they get a very good plan from their employer-well I think it is a 40% tax now on the plan?? It won't affect any 1% er, but it will affect a ton of folks who are above average . Same as this 529 plan-to a 1% er, it is peanuts. To upper middle class, it is great savings for your kids-he is showing a pattern here.

Why a land tax over a consumption tax? Not that either one will happen...

I'm a big supporter of the President. This plan is absolutely ridiculous. Im not sure who developed it in the Administration, but it will never pass, and it feeds in to the Republican narrative. Too many blue state Dems and the financial industry would be pissed about this.

It's hard enough saving for college for my two younguns without the tax break of savings growing. Why even have a 529? I can invest some other way and my earnings will be taxed at capital gains rates rather than ordinary income.

Can't they find another place to make ALL public college free or low cost? How about trimming 10% off the bloated defense budget?

We have a better chance from implosion within than some foreign power taking us over, especially when the defense budget is 2 x the next 19 countries...combined.

lostand confused says

tatupu70 says

Does it make you feel better to imagine that the folks who can't afford to go to community college are 300# lazy critters?

How much is enough? Sec 8, food stamps, free medical, free cell phones, free everything. Everybody does not have to go to college-the poor merit kids already get scholarships. The so-so kids can go and pick up a trade and all they need to be is taught a good work ethic. being given something for nothing all their lives is not going to make somebody a productive citizen.

Welfare cases should not be allowed to vote. Felons are not-so why should lazy bums who do nothing and live off others for generations be allowed to shape this country's future.

So the average poor kid who can't get a merit scholarship doesn't deserve chance to go to college?
Don't be upset when a life of crime is the only other alternative.

Diva24 says

So the average poor kid who can't get a merit scholarship doesn't deserve chance to go to college?

Don't be upset when a life of crime is the only other alternative

That is life. I think I deserve a beach house in Malibu. if I don't get it, do I go on a crime spree??

lostand confused says

That is life. I think I deserve a beach house in Malibu. if I don't get it, do I go on a crime spree??

So you're equating the opportunity to go to college and better oneself with buying a beach house in Malibu?

Do you think the effect on society is the same in each case?

The chances of 529 plans becoming taxable any time soon are probably less than 1%. In the event that they became taxable as ordinary income, I would expect that people would save for college in regular taxable accounts where long term cap gains and qualified dividends still receive preferrential treatment vs ordinary income.

tatupu70 says

lostand confused says

That is life. I think I deserve a beach house in Malibu. if I don't get it, do I go on a crime spree??

So you're equating the opportunity to go to college and better oneself with buying a beach house in Malibu?

Do you think the effect on society is the same in each case?

It depends on what you want in life. Bill gates is a college dropout who provided jobs to millions of highly educated folks. Didn't need any handouts. merit kids get scholarships. The rest can take a trade, do continuing education and build a life. There is dignity in labor-why is it ok for a Mexican to work the fields and why is it that an American needs tax money to support him??
Where there is a will, there is a way. All you are doing is providing a reason for failure. There are millions of law abiding people who did not go to college-just because one makes less money-does not make them less of a human.

lostand confused says

Bill gates is a college dropout who provided jobs to millions of highly educated folks. Didn't need any handouts.

Yes, it's nice to born into a wealthy family, isn't it? If your point is that only those folks who win the lottery at birth are allowed to go to college, then congrats.

lostand confused says

The rest can take a trade, do continuing education and build a life

Learning a trade costs money too. How do you propose folks with no money do that?

lostand confused says

Where there is a will, there is a way. All you are doing is providing a reason for failure. There are millions of law abiding people who did not go to college-just because one makes less money-does not make them less of a human.

If only life were so simple. I'm trying to improve the opportunity for folks who weren't as fortunate at birth.

tatupu70 says

Yes, it's nice to born into a wealthy family, isn't it? If your point is that only those folks who win the lottery at birth are allowed to go to college, then congrats

He made it -more so than many Ph.Ds.tatupu70 says

Learning a trade costs money too. How do you propose folks with no money do that?

Hmm, the word apprentice is not in the English language??
tatupu70 says

If only life were so simple. I'm trying to improve the opportunity for folks who weren't as fortunate at birth.

Are you jesus???

lostand confused says

Hmm, the word apprentice is not in the English language??

Do apprentice programs still exist anywhere?

lostand confused says

He made it -more so than many Ph.Ds

He certainly did. But let's not pretend he came from nothing...

tatupu70 says

lostand confused says

He made it -more so than many Ph.Ds

He certainly did. But let's not pretend he came from nothing...

Plenty of rich kids who amount to nothing and end up as drug addicted party freaks. Plenty of people who came up from nothing and built an empire. All you are doing is providing an excuse-if only somebody paid for this, I would be ok. That would be the drunks in a bar-but if that is the mainstream attitude-then this country is doomed.

Some people who came from rather ordinary beginnings-there are plenty more from where these came from. There are forces in life over which we don't have control and you accept that. The rest is in your hands. Get off your behind and work-but first quit giving reasons as to why you can't be a success-because that will be a self fulfilling prophecy.
Sam Walton
Condoleezza rice
Oprah Winfrey
Sarah Palin
Howard Schultz (Starbucks)
Shahid Khan(Pakistani immigrant)
Kirk Kerkorian (born to Armenian immigrants and school dropout)
Do Won Chang and Jin Sook (immigrant husband)
Ralph Lauren(college dropout)
George Soros (survived Nazi occupation in Hungary)

lostand confused says

Plenty of rich kids who amount to nothing and end up as drug addicted party freaks. Plenty of people who came up from nothing and built an empire.

lol--plenty of people win the lottery too. Should we be content that it is the only way for people who are born into poverty might be successful? What's the problem--they can just buy more tickets??

tatupu70 says

lol--plenty of people win the lottery too. Should we be content that it is the only way for people who are born into poverty might be successful? What's the problem--they can just buy more tickets??

The workings of the mind are fascinating. You didn't read the rest of my post at all or did your mind just put a mental block?

lostand confused says

The workings of the mind are fascinating. You didn't read the rest of my post at all or did your mind just put a mental block?

Sure--I read it. Didn't realize I needed to comment on it as I thought I was clear already. Is it impossible for someone to be successful from humble beginnings? No. Is it much, much, much more difficult when compared with someone born into money? Yes.

I just think society is better off when one's probability of success is determined more by one's drive and ingenuity and less by which family they are born into.

tatupu70 says

I just think society is better off when one's probability of success is determined more by one's drive and ingenuity and less by which family they are born into.

Exactly and that does not come from money. it may help. My parents are immigrants and are very successful as is my fiancé's parents-as are my fiancé and me . Now for both our parents, nobody gave them anything for free. they didn't cry racism or sexism or wait for someone to give them a free handout. They created their own destiny-made a lot of sacrifices, did jobs others would not consider "suitable."

You cannot study an art degree and expect to be paid 100k, just because you think you are worth it. Life is tough, the sooner the kids are taught that and accept the reality they are in, the better they can adjust and see what they want in life.

There are tons of college folks who are working at Starbucks-adding tens of millions more will not benefit folks. Idealism at some stage has to be tempered with reality. But in the generation where you get everything for free and then spit on the face of those who are giving it to you-well what can you expect?

Call it Crazy says

Then why do you cry constantly for "Redistribution of Wealth"?? Isn't getting a handout from family the same as getting a handout from the 1% (or government)?

In your world, it's acceptable for money to be "taken" from those greedy rich people and "given" to the less fortunate.

So, which is it, Capitalism and hard work or liberal socialism?

You never cease to make me laugh. It's always all emotion in your posts.

In my world, progressive taxation and social spending is used to create an environment where it's possible to be successful no matter which class you are born into--low, middle or upper.

I guess the answer is capitalism and hard work. Like the time period from 1945-1980. Unless you think that was socialism.

Call it Crazy says

You can't have it both ways.... either it's capitalism, hard work and the school of hard knocks, where everyone DOESN'T get a trophy...

...or, it's progressive taxation and social spending, where you're going to TAKE from the capitalist, which destroys their drive to create more (which truly helps everyone) and give to the ones who DON'T want to work hard...

Are you kidding? Government is not a binary system. Every country in the world has it both ways, as they should. The most successful countries are in between capitalism and socialism because they understand the benefits and pitfalls of each and design government to get the best of both worlds.

The goal is for everyone to get equal opportunity to succeed--not equal success.

Call it Crazy says

That has ALWAYS been available. Everyone starts out from the same point and has the same opportunities.

You're kidding, right? You think a guy born into the South side of Chicago has the same opportunities as one born in Lake Forest or Wilmette? What are you smoking??

tatupu70 says

You think a guy born into the South side of Chicago has the same opportunities as one born in Lake Forest or Wilmette? What are you smoking??

The South side has some very nice neighborhoods, including Hypde Park, as one example. But your point is well taken.

Call it Crazy says

Coming from a affluent area/family versus the 'hood doesn't guarantee anything... It's the individual that makes it happen.

You seem to suffer from very black and white thinking. Just because it's possible for someone to succeed from poverty doesn't mean that the opportunities presented are the same as one born into wealth. Because, clearly they are not.

tatupu70 says

Do apprentice programs still exist anywhere?

Yeah, that show with Donald Trump

Call it Crazy says

socialists like you don't understand

That socialist rag The Economist understands:

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21640331-importance-intellectual-capital-grows-privilege-has-become-increasingly

People who work for a living still have not figured it out and live in yesterday land. They're are three guys who live in two homes on one lot in my upscale neighborhood. I asked them the other day how they go fishing in their boat almost everyday.

The reply was they get 3700 dollars disability cash between the three of them, get another almost 600 in EBT (food stamps) and discounts on most all of their bills.

The guys look as fit as body builders. I even saw their garage gym once. Really nice with a workout station nation and much free weights. If i were 50 years younger i would be choose these guys over the working fools, HANDS DOWN !!

So everyone should be Bill Gates? Your fatal flaw is using the exception as the rule.

Who cares about that mythical "everyone?"