patrick.net

marcus says

It seems to me it's often a simple incompetence issue of one kind or another. The people becoming police are not the people who should be.

How do you know? You are ignoring the countless incidents where no one got hurt. The real problem is the media that turns a shooting incident into some kind of a national disaster.

Strategist says

How do you know? You are ignoring the countless incidents where no one got hurt.

I should have said (meant to say) some of the people, or too many of the people becoming police are not the people that should be. The point being that given the fact that it's a good paying job with good benefits, there should be aptitude tests before hiring (not that it's easy to test how people perform under life threatening pressure), and far better training.

The cost of training would be far less than the cost of reputation lost and law suits payed out to families of murdered civilians.

Strategist says

The real problem is the media that turns a shooting incident into some kind of a national disaster.

It's actually an example of the media still functioning as it should, probably because social media makes it harder for these murders to remain hidden.

P N Dr Lo R says

bob2356 says

It's worth noting that the violence increase is in the cities that were most aggressive with things like compstat, stop and frisk, broken windows, military training.

And yet it was stop and frisk and broken windows that was most effective in bringing the mayhem of New York City in the 70's and 80's under control by the 90's, but now those have been abandoned. What's wrong with broken windows thinking, do you just let a neighborhood go to hell? The point is the impulses are there all along, they were just brought to heel for a time.

That is an amazing fact, especially since Bratton didn't become police chief until 1995 or so and started the broken windows program after that. Nothing wrong with broken windows. If cops see something going on and stop it then it's a good idea. If it becomes harassing people and causing resentment then it's a bad idea.

I notice you say nothing about the huge expansion of the NYC police force under bratton paid for by clinton's community policing program. Don't you think that has any relevance at all?

indigenous says

As a result of the anti-cop campaign of the last two years and the resulting push-back in the streets, officers in urban areas are cutting back on precisely the kind of policing that led to the crime decline of the 1990s and 2000s. Arrests and summons are down, particularly for low-level offenses

indigenous says

Oh ok reason enough to dismiss the article, clearly you know more than they do...

I know there is nothing there to back up her assertion other than I say so. Your favourite kind of article. Arrests and summons are down. Really? Down how much? What urban areas? Compared to what? Compared to where? Over what time frame?

If you want to actually learn something, as opposed to looking for someone who's opinion backs up your opinion, read NYU law school research into crime reduction. released last year. https://www.brennancenter.org/publication/what-caused-crime-decline
Sorry but it's not a video, you actually have to read it and it's long. Page 77 (page 83 on a my pdf viewer) has NYC statistics. Note the pre comstat trends, post comstat trends, and number of police pre and post comstat. Yes I do think I know more than your article does, since the article doesn’t offer anything other than it's true because I say so, just like you.

indigenous says

Was this a bogus statistic as well?

"In New York City in 1990, for example, there were 2,245 homicides. In 2014 there were 333—a decrease of 85 percent. The drop in New York’s crime rate is the steepest in the nation, but crime has fallen at a historic rate nationwide as well—by about 40 percent—since the early 1990s. The greatest beneficiaries of these declining rates have been minorities. "

Absolutely bogus. Proving once again you don't know what statistics are or how they are used. Why start at 1990? Compstat didn't get fully up and running in NYC until 1995-1996 (NYC is very fuzzy about when it was actually fully in place and operational). What about the sharp decline between 1990 and 1996. Why not start at 1996 or whenever compstat was fully in place and operational? Why not compare the rate of decline pre compstat to post compstat? Sorry I forgot you don't understand rates. Crime fell at a historic rate nationwide, including cites not using compstat at all. What does that say? Do you ever think about what you read?

indigenous says

I will say that one of the biggest factors that goes unreported is demographics. People don't commit as much crime when they get older. Which makes me wonder about the huge increase in 20 somethings in near future.

Look in the brennan report and you will find that demographics had very little to do with the drop in crime. Which surprised me a lot. "I will say"???, yep that says it all. Nothing like in depth research.

indigenous says

I will add my anecdotal experience. My business was broken into a while back. It was one in a string of robberies of similiar type businesses. By using a computer model the police were able to predict the most likely next target and staked out that business and nailed the thieves red handed. Needless to say I like the idea of using data to manage crime.

Nothing at all wrong with using data to manage crime. It's a good idea. But it's only a small part of a much larger picture. at most 5-15% of the overall crime reduction the last 20 years in the cities that used it. It's not like some kind of magic.

Bottom line your absurd statement "the cops had a very workable policy in Compstat which was abandoned because of the back lives matter bullshit." remains just that. Absurd.

Strategist says

How else are the cops gonna deal with potential riots burning down large parts of a city? We had that happen in Ferguson and Los Angeles. Pussy cat cops are no match for hordes of rioters bent on destruction. A display of overwhelming force is the best deterrent we have.

Are you high? After the King verdict I didn't see cop one in South Central, but I did see Korean's blasting looters from their store roofs. It's kind of the point of this thread that police will almost never put themselves in harms way. They'll wait for the national guard(again see King riots), before they set foot in any riot area.