patrick.net

Obligatory:

even after being investigated by the FBI for ties to terrorist groups, because the right wing and the NRA have viciously fought any attempt to restrict weapons to anyone regardless of mental illness or terrorism.

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The FBI has stopped ZERO plots of domestic terrorism this millennia. Just like any and every other branch of our domestic spying apparatus. Why is everyone surprised that this time was different?

You voted for the Patriot Act. You sat by silently while trillions of dollars of public wealth were squandered on surveillance to "make us safer" lol. You are responsible for the fifty dead.

Rather than say this is a lie, why not refute the claim with evidence. All you would have to do is post one instance where an act of domestic terrorism was thwarted, and you'd prove your point.

My assertion is not stupid.

The information collection agencies, that spy on every last citizen in this country, all the time, has cast too wide a net. They knew about this guy, but couldn't possibly have done anything to prevent his actions, because they put equally weighted attention to random protesters from BLM and the like. They have rendered themselves completely ineffective, anyone that watched any footage from yesterday should have noticed the thousand man army on the ground, along with the billions of dollars of military equipment. They were incapable of preventing even a single death, rather just a highly ineffective and expensive clean up crew, most likely to assualt a/o harass innocent bystanders than prevent crime

errc says

They were incapable of preventing even a single death

At least they did something, unlike San Jose or Baltimore City police.

Wow this whole gay voting block switching over to Trump has really ruffled some duck feathers this morning!!!

Blame me of talking out both sides of my mouth, then goes on to talk out both sides of your mouth.

I don't consider the FBI stopping their own phony ops as a redeeming success story

mell says

Don't trip over yourself. Practically it has the same effect if a country consists of 90%+ people of the official faith. It's a much more effective and peaceful measure than bombing a random - mostly unaffiliated - country and toppling their leader.

What a horrible solution - it involves no violence, doesn't use up expensive multimillion dollar missiles, doesn't risk US lives or carry the chance of collateral damage - and it works really well.

Totally irresponsible.

Invade and Invite is so much better.

Hillary’s State Dept. Blocked Investigation into Orlando Killer’s Mosque.

http://www.infowars.com/hillarys-state-dept-blocked-investigation-into-orlando-killers-mosque/

Hillary Clinton’s State Dept. shut down an investigation into the mosque Orlando killer Omar Mir Siddique Mateen attended because it “unfairly singled out Muslims.”

rando says

The ultimate solution is public shaming of Islam for its ridiculously violent founder and holy book, which go far beyond any other religion in both theory and practice of violence.

Reason does not work with religious people. The shaming will only increase the fanaticism. The Islamists are conducting their own propaganda and this will only feed into it.

I don't really see a realistic solution to the problem, because as a part of such solution it would be necessary a change in the US foreign policy, as well as an uplift in the living standard and education of the people in the Middle East.

FP says

Reason does not work with religious people. The shaming will only increase the fanaticism. The Islamists are conducting their own propaganda and this will only feed into it.

I don't really see a realistic solution to the problem, because as a part of such solution it would be necessary a change in the US foreign policy, as well as an uplift in the living standard and education of the people in the Middle East.

FP perhaps you are correct, reason will not change everyone's mind. But shaming is not about reason, it is about making people feel uncomfortable with their religion and that is important. Heck, our society has been making Christians feel shamed for believing the Bible for decades. It is high time that society begins shaming Islam for the the increasingly violent and ugly stain on humanity that it is.

I also think you are right that there is no easy solution, and it is absolutely true that these people who commit these acts of terrorism and murder need to be punished and perhaps even their families need to be punished to set the example that our society will not tolerate this and there will be consequences for your actions. When people don't fear death, you need to give them something else to fear. How would they feel about being responsible for having their loved ones deported back to Afganistan, Somalia and Syria?

As far as living standards go, we need to raise the standard of living in THIS country. Home ownership is basically unobtainable for most immigrants and working poor. If people had a home and a family to lose maybe they would not turn to terrorism, crime and murder as a lifestyle.

Vaticanus says

Heck, our society has been making Christians feel shamed for believing the Bible for decades.

Every presidential candidate must pretend to be Christian.

In the history of the United States, precisely 2 members of Congress have admitted being atheists.

HydroCabron says

Every presidential candidate must pretend to be Christian.

And in order to not be shamed for pretending to be a Christian, the candidate must also deny they believe the Bible's true teachings on the creation, marriage, etc.....

Banning immigration from certain countries is the most peaceful AND effective method of preventing domestic terror.

Supplying and protecting refugee camps abroad is considerably cheaper, more effective, and less disruptive than bringing in refugees, almost all of whom go straight to welfare for years at a time. If they do work, it adds to an already glutted labor market and raises the birth rate which needs to be reduced, not increased.

We have no shortage of arms/cigarette smugglers, quickie mart operators, etc.

FP says

rando says

The ultimate solution is public shaming of Islam for its ridiculously violent founder and holy book, which go far beyond any other religion in both theory and practice of violence.

Reason does not work with religious people. The shaming will only increase the fanaticism. The Islamists are conducting their own propaganda and this will only feed into it.

First, most human beings are sensitive to logic and reasonable arguments. I was listening this morning on a Sam Harris podcast how one Pakistani man in pakistan said he became atheist after listening to a Sam Harris video on youtube. Reason works.

Second, not sure if shaming is the word, but certainly ridicule needs to be applied to the extreme tenets of Islam that are in fact plain ridicule. It's not a question of reason. It's a question of propaganda and tribal thinking. These people think their acts are pure and they are acting out of being good. They needs to be shown and constantly reminded they are idiots, living a medieval fantasy, creating useless suffering and as such being evil. It's not a question of logic. It's a question of propaganda and tribal thinking. Their 'tribe' just sucks.

thunderlips11 says

Banning immigration from certain countries is the most peaceful AND effective method of preventing terror.

According to the theory that 2nd gen kids are turning into terrorists, then banning immigration of Muslims should lower the incidence of terrorist attacks on our soil starting in about 45 years. But, that assumes that the world will be in a similar state. It's entirely unclear if that is the case. Plus, it's unclear what secondary effects (unintended consequences) such a ban would have. Conservatives always overstate the positive impact of lower taxes. Meanwhile, they imagine that declaring war on Islam will not at all increase the attacks by disaffected 2nd gen kids who are here now. Bolton was on TV this morning actually stating that it would lower the attacks. I don't see it.

Heraclitusstudent says

It's a question of propaganda and tribal thinking. These people think their acts are pure and they are acting out of being good. They needs to be shown and constantly reminded they are idiots, living a medieval fantasy, creating useless suffering and as such being evil. It's not a question of logic. It's a question of propaganda and tribal thinking. Their 'tribe' just suck

I would agree with this, but think that the ridicule has to be reserved for the terrorists. Trying to propagandize away the whole religion would be counter productive. The goal is to divide and conquer. Make sure that it is ISIS and other terrorists that are being humiliated. Trying to conquer first is silly.

YesYNot says

According to the theory that 2nd gen kids are turning into terrorists, then banning immigration of Muslims should lower the incidence of terrorist attacks on our soil starting in about 45 years

Great - isn't that the logic behind most enviro regulations?

If we impose regulations now, then in so many decades we will see a decrease of pollutant/CO2/etc.?

Liberals would suck Jesus' Perez cock if they thought it would get them votes.

YesYNot says

I would agree with this, but think that the ridicule has to be reserved for the terrorists. Trying to propagandize away the whole religion would be counter productive. The goal is to divide and conquer. Make sure that it is ISIS and other terrorists that are being humiliated. Trying to conquer first is silly.

What you ridicule is ideas not people. But you can't isolate terrorists from non-violent people who adhere to a very similar theology. This is the same 'cult', the same group of people, and this is what you need to weaken as a belief system.

And this is absolutely not the same as propagandizing away the whole religion. There are many Muslims that think Sharia is BS just like there are Christian who think genesis is BS. It is perfectly defensible to come and TV and explain why Genesis is BS and the same should be true about Sharia. These ideas have been getting a free pass for too long because of PC concerns. People who believe it's a good idea to kill infidels, to stone gay people or adulterous wives SHOULD BE OFFENDED.

Tenpoundbass says

Liberals would suck Jesus' cock if they thought it would get them votes.

Christians would do it for free.

thunderlips11 says

Great - isn't that the logic behind most enviro regulations?

Most enviro regulations are more immediate, but some are long ranging. So is Donald's temporary ban going to be 45 years? What about the 2ndary effects of a ban on immigration of certain religious groups?

Tenpoundbass says

Liberals would suck Jesus' cock if they thought it would get them votes.

You wrote that entire comment without once saying the words "Islamic extremism."

Disgraceful.

YesYNot says

So is Donald's temporary ban going to be 45 years? What about the 2ndary effects of a ban on immigration of certain religious groups?

No - I mean it might take 45 years to get results, which I doubt.

What secondary effects? Are Muslim fanatics noted for their contributions to science?

Muslim countries - including the obscenely wealthy ones - are crap in every category: Literature, Books Read, Patents Issued, etc.

rando says

They know that public shaming is their weak point, and that is why they had to attack Charlie Hebdo.

Ah, so you understand that publicly shaming Islam is more likely to cause violence than to prevent it.

Glad to see you're finally getting it.

Islamic violence has lasted millenia. Donald trump is not that old. The only thing that has worked with those savages is brutal force. Sadaam kept peace-because of the terror he inspired. There are very few peaceful islamic states.

Vaticanus says

But most of them were relocated to the United States with aid from bleeding heart liberals and organizations like the United Nations as well as NGO's and United States based charity organizations. Bringing Islamic refugees to the United States has proven to be a bad decision.

Our neighbors the Catholic Community of Pleasanton has been involved in co sponsoring along with catholic charities a refugee family from afghanistan. They raised at least 15 Gs in their effort. Hmmm...

http://www.catholicsofpleasanton.org/co-sponsoring-a-refugee-family.html

Wait until the idiots of this country elect the corporatist scarlet whore of Wall Street. The Muslims will show nothing but respect

marcus says

They know that public shaming is their weak point, and that is why they had to attack Charlie Hebdo.

Ah, so you understand that publicly shaming Islam is more likely to cause violence than to prevent it.

Glad to see you're finally getting it.

Freedom of the press is the cornerstone of western civilization which implies that cartoonists and writers have a right to express provocative satire without consequences to staying alive and physical safety. Their decision to "avenge the prophet" should have been met with severe countermeasures that would make potential sympathizers think twice before attempting likewise acts. Acting otherwise is a way of caving in and is a symbolic form of surrender.

marcus says

rando says

They know that public shaming is their weak point, and that is why they had to attack Charlie Hebdo.

Ah, so you understand that publicly shaming Islam is more likely to cause violence than to prevent it.

Actually it isn't. What Charlie Hebdo did is violating some islamic blasphemy rule. You don't need to do that. You just need to point out the obvious:
For ex: "Do you think God created most of humanity outside Islam and condemn people to an eternity of hell fire, through no fault of their own, just because they were born from the wrong parents and are not Muslims? If you believe that, you believe that God is incredibly stupid and immoral, and that makes you incredibly stupid and immoral. "

You need to rub the nose of these people in reality. That's it.

errc says

Wait until the idiots of this country elect the corporatist scarlet whore of Wall Street. The Muslims will show nothing but respe

I see words, and I have to assume that you thought there was meaning or value to writing them. Or, is it just to show anyone new to the website what a fucking tard you are?

dublin hillz says

Their decision to "avenge the prophet" should have been met with severe countermeasures that would make potential sympathizers think twice before attempting likewise acts.

Right. Brilliant. Who are "they" or "them." Who exactly gets the severe counter measures ? Random Muslims ? Perhaps some random Imams that have talked hate against the infidels ? Sure that's not going to trigger more attacks from suicidal terrorists.

The guys who actually did the attacks were killed and are in heaven with their virgin harem now.

Heraclitusstudent says

Ah, so you understand that publicly shaming Islam is more likely to cause violence than to prevent it.

Actually it isn't. What Charlie Hebdo did is violating some islamic blasphemy rule. You don't need to do that. You just need to point out the obvious:

For ex: "Do you think God created most of humanity outside Islam and condemn people to an eternity of hell fire, through no fault of their own, just because they were born from the wrong parents and are not Muslims? If you believe that, you believe that God is incredibly stupid and immoral, and that makes you incredibly stupid and immoral. "

You need to rub the nose of these people in reality. That's it.

Works in schools through peer pressure. If we can get more teens to dump Islam through public shaming we will be ahead of the game.

marcus says

Right. Brilliant. Who are "they" or "them." Who exactly gets the severe counter measures ? Random Muslims ? Perhaps some random Imams that have talked hate against the infidels ? Sure that's not going to trigger more attacks from suicidal terrorists.

Marcus, the problem with you is you are a nice guy, a teacher who cares for the well being of students.
So tell us... how would you stop Islamic attacks?

marcus says

Perhaps some random Imams that have talked hate against the infidels ?

They would be the ace of spades.

Ultimately, there will have to be tough decisions made and no choice presents a pain free path. We can choose to sit back and get picked off - 3,000 here, 100 there, 50 there. Alternatively, a strategy can be developed that results in projected long term minimal damage to the westerners. Moreover, freedom of the press is simply not a right and not a way of life that can be negotiated away out of appeasement. Think of it like this - you can invite a guest to your house for the evening and not say certain things out of politeness and to prevent tension. But if the guest moves in and becomes a permanent resident in your abode and you have to modify your behavior, speech, conduct in perpetuity, then you individual character and personality is lost/transformed forever. As a western society, we must not let that happen by any means necessary - whether by covert military action or by isolating the risky regions of the world as much as possible both culturally and economically.

Virtually unknown today, but 89 years ago on the very day Lucky Lindy was flying the Atlantic for the first time, May 18, 1927, and women with bobbed hair dressed in short skirts http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/1927fashions.html were dancing to jazz over their new radio sets, the worst terrorist attack in American history up until the Oklahoma City bombing took place in Bath, Michigan, when crazed school board member Andrew Kehoe detonated hundreds of pounds of dynamite he'd secreted within the walls and foundation of the brand new school house by virtue of his access as a board member, resulting in 45 deaths and 58 injuries, only five fewer than the current attack. On that morning, he first killed his wife and burned his house. Then he burned his barn down after tying his horses' feet together so they couldn't escape. He drove his Model T pickup into town and set off the dynamite. As the school principal came out, Kehoe fired his rifle at the bed of his truck, detonating more dynamite which killed himself and the principal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster