patrick.net

P N Dr Lo R says

Dan8267 says

Slavery, segregation, systemic impoverishment and oppression of blacks created this very culture.

Then why didn't the same social pathology exist in the most racist era outside the 19th century

Time makes problems worse, obviously.

The fact remains that the conservative right created this problem, and until they stop fueling the flames, we won't be able to fix it.

Let's get to the core of the issue. Conservatives, given everything that has happened in the past 200 years of American history, was slavery really worth it? Are you and your family better off today because of the slave trade and the subsequent oppression?

Evil is not profitable in the long term.

rando says

Dan8267 says

this very problem was created by you and your ancestors.

Absolutely not.

I did nothing whatsoever to create any black racism against whites, nor did any of my ancestors.

That is not at all what I'm saying. Like you I don't have ancestors who were American slavers. I was talking about Fort Wayne. You can tell from his attitude that he is descended from slavers. Their descendants are the only ones who whitewash American history.

Now, I'd be all for forgiving the American South once it repents from its ways. The sins of the father are only passed on to the son if the son reenacts those sins in one form or another or condones them. Unfortunately, that is exactly what the American South continues to do to this day. It's not white Americans that are wrong. It's a very specific minority of white Americans that give the rest of us a bad reputation we don't deserve.

As for whites who had nothing to do with slavery, those who didn't benefit from it, those whose ancestors didn't participate in or support it, and even those descendants of slavers who don't condone their ancestor's behavior and don't continue to oppress minorities (for example, with thinly veiled voter suppression laws like voter ID), those white people have no reason to feel guilt. I've said that many times.

Dan8267 says

You can tell from his attitude that he is descended from slavers.

Nominated for "scientist" of the day! Did you even examine his cranium for irregular lumps before making this diagnosis, Dr. Dan?

Quigley says

Nominated for "scientist" of the day! Did you even examine his cranium for irregular lumps before making this diagnosis, Dr. Dan?

Unlike you, I have common sense. People aren't that hard to figure out.

Dan8267 says

Time makes problems worse, obviously.

Time, aided and abetted by the counterculture and sexual revolution are the sources of black family disintegration over the past 50 years. A 20 year old black man in 1957 was punching a time clock alongside his white counterpart and had a child by a woman he was married to--in 1974 a 20 year old black man was selling and using drugs in the 'hood and had at least one child by a woman he'd abandoned.

Dan8267 says

(for example, with thinly veiled voter suppression laws like voter ID),

They have voter ID in India and about 88.2% of the population (or higher) have it. Also, the rate of participation in elections is much higher than it is here in the US

Dan8267 says

very problem was created by you and your ancestors

How did people living in Poland and Hungary create this problem?

marcus says

Quigley says

And yet for all his professed commitment to diversity and equality, Marcus can't agree that bigotry is wrong in all situations.

My point was only that I can't relate to special snowflakes that get butt hurt over generalizations about "white privilege" or other similar prejudice towards white folks by minorities.

There's a huge difference between supporting it and not being bothered by it. In this case I'm referring only to not being bothered by prejudice against myself or generalizations about white privilege etc(my group).

Compare that to people that feel the same way - that there's a big difference between supporting it and not being bothered by it - as it pertains to Trump's populous racist (towards minorities) rhetoric ? This attitude applies to many around here, who defend Trump at every chance they get.

Dan8267 says

rando says

Dan8267 says

this very problem was created by you and your ancestors.

Absolutely not.

I did nothing whatsoever to create any black racism against whites, nor did any of my ancestors.

That is not at all what I'm saying. Like you I don't have ancestors who were American slavers. I was talking about Fort Wayne. You can tell from his attitude that he is descended from slavers. Their descendants are the only ones who whitewash American history.

Now, I'd be all for forgiving the American South once it repents from its ways. The sins of the father are only passed on to the son if the son reenacts those sins in one form or another or condones them. Unfortunately, that is exactly what the American South continues to do to this day. It's not white Americ...

You got caught Dan, at least own up to your mistaken and misplaced hatred for us white folk.

You aren't going to have many friends with that attitude of yours.

MMR says

They have voter ID in India and about 88.2% of the population (or higher) have it. Also, the rate of participation in elections is much higher than it is here in the US

Their voter ID laws aren't designed solely for the purpose of voter suppression.

Voter ID laws target African Americans with almost surgical precision

In the North Carolina case, the 4th Circuit panel agreed with allegations that North Carolina’s omnibus bill selectively chose voter-ID requirements, reduced the number of early-voting days and changed registration procedures in ways meant to harm blacks, who overwhelmingly vote for the Democratic Party.

“The new provisions target African Americans with almost surgical precision” and “impose cures for problems that did not exist,” Judge Diana Gribbon Motz wrote for the panel. “Thus the asserted justifications cannot and do not conceal the State’s true motivation.”

It's been proven in court. 'Nuff said.

Booger says

How did people living in Poland and Hungary create this problem?

They didn't. The damn American Southerners created the problem.

FortWayne says

You got caught Dan, at least own up to your mistaken and misplaced hatred for us white folk.

Bullshit lie. My position has always been consistent and exactly what I described above. Why don't you show on single post I've made on PatNet in which I demonstrate hatred for white folks in general, you lying sack of shit.

FortWayne says

You aren't going to have many friends with that attitude of yours.

What you call "attitude" is what everyone else calls honesty. I guess it must be an alien concept to you.

The truth is that you, Fort Wayne, and your ancestors are responsible for creating all those problems you bitch and moan about. So I asked you again, was slavery worth it? Do you have the balls to admit your ancestors committed evil and vile acts and that they made the country a worse place for subsequent centuries by practicing slavery?

And quite frankly, I'm sick of inbred whites like you making the rest of us whites look bad. Most of us whites created the greatest things in the word: democracy, the scientific method, the printing press, the transistor, the Internet. And then there is white trash like Fort Wayne who gives our culture and our history a bad rap. If it wasn't for white trash like him, the rest of the world wouldn't look down on us. And it's all because you can't get over the fact that you lost the Civil War, you traitors. You are just harming America.

zzyzzx says

You'd be surprised. Just today, I talked to some great, very strong students, one part asian mixed, one latino, one black, that are accustomed to living in a diverse urban community, and they visited some east coast universities over spring break and were very uncomfortable with some of the ones that were overly homogeneous.

And I can can related to this too, when I visit a brother in a place that's 100% white, after living so many years in LA and Chicago in diverse communities, it's got a very weird feeling to it. Don't get me worng. A ot of friendly people. But it takes some adjusting to, and I don't know if I like it. But then, I haven't been there long enough to adjust.

Now that isn't white racism per se, but it's the kind of place that white racists are going to choose to live. (please - I'm not saying that everyone that chooses and all white community is a racist anymore than I would say that all republicans are racist. ).

marcus says

Now that isn't white racism per se, but it's the kind of place that white racists are going to choose to live.

That is true, but! The kind of racists you'll find in mostly white private universities are the limousine liberal types who vote Democrat. They are intolerant of those who are different, but the kind of difference they can't abide is ideological. Think of it as a cult of white people all programmed to think the same way and harass those who express differing opinions.

The redneck racists these days mostly live next door to black and Latino families, and count many as friends. They hold unpopular beliefs that are different from the cult of Democrat white people, and are intolerant in much the same way as that type. It's an intolerance of ideas. Racism enters into it where certain races have systemic cultural issues that cause them to offend society much more often than other people. Here's where you see the difference. Limo Leftists will avert their gaze and insist that it's the white mans fault somehow. Rednecks will just call a spade a spade.
Who's more racist?

I do think I get it about the whole feeling uncomfortable around people who even well meaning, are entirely of another race or culture. There are plenty of places where I can be and encounter this phenomenon in Southern California. Just the other day I was in the little Saigon area getting some bahn mi and was so out of place that little kids were staring at me. Maybe it's like that.

Quigley says

The kind of racists you'll find in mostly white private universities are the limousine liberal types who vote Democrat. They are intolerant of those who are different, but the kind of difference they can't abide is ideological. Think of it as a cult of white people all programmed to think the same way and harass those who express differing opinions.

The redneck racists these days mostly live next door to black and Latino families, and count many as friends. They hold unpopular beliefs that are different from the cult of Democrat white people, and are intolerant in much the same way as that type. It's an intolerance of ideas. Racism enters into it where certain races have systemic cultural issues that cause them to offend society much more often than other people. Here's where you see the difference. Limo Leftists will avert their gaze and insist that it's the white mans fault somehow. Rednecks will just call a spade a spade.

Who's more racist?

I get your point, but I don't believe that it holds up. A huge part of the Trump voting block are actually republicans that couldn't pull the trigger for Hillary.

Sure some of the red necks that voted for TRump have friends that are latino or black, but it's not a generalization that holds up. The generalization that a lot of the white Hillary voters are naive and don't have experience with diversity is more true, but still isn't a generalization that makes sense to me.

As things get more diverse everywhere, I believe that the TRump effect diminishes, but it might get worse before it gets better.

I predicted this white fear many years ago, but didn't realize it would be as big a political force as it is, probably becasue I did not predict some of the forces that are exacerbating the white fear.

I knew this would happen when the Cubans took over...
marcus says

It's 10:00pm in Floriada

marcus says

some of the forces that are exacerbating the white fear.

Nobody likes to be actively discriminated against. Not even white people. That's where this push back is coming from. If you want to move forward to equality and an egalitarian society, you have to give up the regressive Left's idea of anti-white racism being necessary to correct historical wrongs and systemic cultural issues in minority communities.
Nothing less will suffice.

Lefts view of equality is putting white folk into slavery and discriminating against us because they feel entitled to it. It's when left starts believing their own bullshit, case point Dan who outright hates whites calling us "slavers".

I feel discriminated all the time, especially with how government treats people.

Quigley says

you have to give up the regressive Left's idea of anti-white racism being necessary to correct historical wrongs and systemic cultural issues in minority communities.

Nothing less will suffice.

I think it's a cop out. The regressive left you speak of is not that big a force, but they will continue, to an extent, because the minority individuals buy their message, and that's a growing demographic.

I don't have a problem ignoring overstated beliefs of "white privilege."

The real and only reason Trump was able to win was that the left didn't have a better candidate, combined with a huge and effective propaganda campaign against Hillary that goes all the way back to the 90s. I recall a palpable hate that my conservative older brother had for her, when she had the gall to be working on policy back in 1992.

I don't know about Bernie. I like him but am not one of those with any confidence he could have won the main election. But there are many people such as E. Warren that would have easily beaten him.

Best comment on racism ever.

rando says

Best comment on racism ever.

Agreed. Freeman is right on the money.

Giving a shit about race at all is racism. The amount of melanin is a person's skin is completely irrelevant and unimportant to anything except sunburn protection. The people who truly live in a post-racial mindset are the ones who just don't care or even think about race unless discussing the failings of society to get past racism.

Intel did a study and could not find any wage gap when considering similar jobs and years of experience:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2016/02/03/intel-says-there-is-no-pay-gap-between-men-and-women-at-the-chipmaker/

Dan8267 says

Agreed. Freeman is right on the money.

Giving a shit about race at all is racism. The amount of melanin is a person's skin is completely irrelevant and unimportant to anything except sunburn protection. The people who truly live in a post-racial mindset are the ones who just don't care or even think about race unless discussing the failings of society to get past racism.

Hence you are by your own definition racist, because you refer to all "white" people as slavers. Of course you sucked it up when Patrick called you out on it. But that's just you realizing you went out of line.

FortWayne says

Hence you are by your own definition racist, because you refer to all "white" people as slavers.

Now that's a bold face lie told by a coward. Quote me saying that all white people are slavers. Quote me saying anything that remotely could be interpreted by any reasonable person as meaning that.

Only a coward makes up lies about what his opponent said, and a stupid one at that as everything on PatNet is public, so it's damn easy to refute your lies.

I'm pretty damn sure though that your ancestors were slavers and that you miss those good old days.

anonymous says

Pretty stupid Cartoon considering it's underlying basis is that blacks were deprived homes due to inability to obtain mortgages, which didn't even come along until 1934 and then were 50% down and 3-5 year terms.

I don't know that I'd trust something that so blatantly lays out a false premise.

Fucking White Male says

How does the fact that George Soros finances BLM play into all this?

It brainwashes people into thinking that voter ID= voter suppression

Registering to vote is a lot like registering for Medicaid. Lot of people won't do it simply because it is 'too much work'.

People will get their welfare either way and people will get medical care through ER regardless

Fucking White Male says

Pretty stupid Cartoon considering it's underlying basis is that blacks were deprived homes due to inability to obtain mortgages

Also consider that there is no one who cares less about your race than a lender.

All they want is to be sure of getting their money back with interest. They are completely blind to all other considerations.

MMR says

It brainwashes people into thinking that voter ID= voter suppression

The ‘smoking gun’ proving North Carolina Republicans tried to disenfranchise black voters

The federal court in Richmond found that the primary purpose of North Carolina's wasn't to stop voter fraud, but rather to disenfranchise minority voters. The judges found that the provisions "target African Americans with almost surgical precision."

In particular, the court found that North Carolina lawmakers requested data on racial differences in voting behaviors in the state. "This data showed that African Americans disproportionately lacked the most common kind of photo ID, those issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV)," the judges wrote.

So the legislators made it so that the only acceptable forms of voter identification were the ones disproportionately used by white people. "With race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans," the judges wrote. "The bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess."

The data also showed that black voters were more likely to make use of early voting — particularly the first seven days out of North Carolina's 17-day voting period. So lawmakers eliminated these seven days of voting. "After receipt of this racial data, the General Assembly amended the bill to eliminate the first week of early voting, shortening the total early voting period from seventeen to ten days," the court found.

Most strikingly, the judges point to a "smoking gun" in North Carolina's justification for the law, proving discriminatory intent. The state argued in court that "counties with Sunday voting in 2014 were disproportionately black" and "disproportionately Democratic," and said it did away with Sunday voting as a result.

"Thus, in what comes as close to a smoking gun as we are likely to see in modern times, the State’s very justification for a challenged statute hinges explicitly on race — specifically its concern that African Americans, who had overwhelmingly voted for Democrats, had too much access to the franchise," the judges write in their decision.

This is about as clear-cut an indictment of the discriminatory underpinnings of voter-ID laws as you'll find anywhere. Studies have already shown a significant link between support for voter ID and racial discrimination, among both lawmakers and white voters in general.

"Faced with this record," the federal court concludes, "we can only conclude that the North Carolina General Assembly enacted the challenged provisions of the law with discriminatory intent."

To argue that voter ID laws are intended to fight voter fraud is an utter lie. Every voter ID law every proposed by Republicans have been designed solely for the purpose of rigging elections by preventing legal voters from voting. That is the entire intention, and it's painfully obvious. To say otherwise is a lie.

I had a dream I was being defiled by a black Democrat President while a bunch of White Liberals yelled "Go! Go! Go!"

They touched me there...

So I called the Trumpolice.

Shouldn't have fucked with the Constituents you retards. That's going to be bad taste for YEARS and DECADES to come.

That first Black President should have brought the country together.
The Liberals used him to scratch every itch they've had for decades.
Obama as just a Shit doo doo rag the Liberals used to smear shit all over this once great nation of ours.

Trump is here it's OK Ya'll!

Dan8267 says

On a serious note, the exact quote from MLK is

"I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

He did not limit that to people of any particular color.

anonymous says

Why do lenders consistently charge minorities higher interest rates

They charge higher rates not based on race, they charge higher rates where risk is higher. In fact lending applications frequently don't even ask for race, they only ask for your debt to income ratio. You left wingers have a pathetic understanding of lending and business, probably why you always vote for more taxes.

anonymous says

Realtors are more prone to show "people" to the "right" neighborhood than anyone else I know.

Actually, realtors on the south side of Chicago deliberately moved in blacks so that they could then go to the whites and encourage them to sell quickly while they still could.

Summary: realtors have zero ethics and will do anything to get a commission. It's insulting to innocent pond scum to compare realtors to scum.

anonymous says

Why do lenders consistently charge minorities higher interest rates (i.e. autos etc.) whey they can get away with it. The poor and minorities who often are one in the same have a harder time to repay anything and get the highest interest rates. I know - it's the risk, right ?

Lenders will charge the interest rate that offsets the risk of default enough for them to make a profit.

Simply charging people interest rates according to their probability of repayment is of course likely to cause people in poor financial shape to have to pay more.

Or are you saying that banks should simply give away money?

anonymous says

Why do lenders consistently charge minorities higher interest rates

Realtors must be Asian-lovers, as Asians get lower mortgage rates than other races.

http://www.financialsamurai.com/mortgage-interest-rates-by-race/

It seems that this "discrimination" based on race BS falls apart when one looks at Asians. If there is discrimination in this country, it is based on your income, and not race.

anonymous says

Asian's may have better credit scores and larger down payments in addition to having the funds to buy down the rate even more.

Yes, and lower income of African Americans compared to whites is likely the reason for higher mortgage rates. Not race. Alternatively, we have to agree that realtors discriminate against whites to benefit Asians.

FortWayne says

In fact lending applications frequently don't even ask for race

A law called the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA) enacted in 1974 makes it illegal for lenders to discriminate based on race, national origin, gender, age, marital status, or because one receives public assistance.

Another law called the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act (HMDA) enacted in 1975 requires lenders to collect, report, and disclose a long list of data about mortgages they originate, including each borrower’s race, ethnicity, gender, and age.

anonymous says

too bad we don't really enforce most of them or do so on a select basis.

Regulatory enforcement of equal opportunity laws can make a huge difference. Government and NAACP should regularly have applicants of different colors apply for loans and compare rates, to ensure the lenders are complying with the law. Even a credible threat of prosecution can bring lenders into compliance on a prospective basis, without litigating past actions.

anonymous says

The poor and minorities who often are one in the same have a harder time to repay anything and get the highest interest rates. I know - it's the risk, right ?

No, it's what the market will bear. If lenders know that a prospective borrower is likely to be overcharged everywhere, they don't need to offer a lower rate based on risk. If lenders know they can get away with charging more, then many are likely to do so. It doesn't require conspiracy or even animus: it's not personal, merely business. Imagine you are working in a big bank, paid on commission, and the choice comes down to more $ for your kids vs more $ for strangers. Maintaining a level playing field requires enforcement, so the bank representatives face a substantial probability of getting caught quickly and maybe fired or fined before Christmas. Routine regularatory testing can work better than sporadic litigation.

curious2 says

Dan8267 says

On a serious note, the exact quote from MLK is

"I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

He did not limit that to people of any particular color.

Of course, that is my entire point!