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168   joeyjojojunior   2017 Jun 3, 9:14am  

Goran_K says

That's the beauty of a pie that gets bigger instead of an economy/system that believes the pie is limited and zero-sum.

Most of your post is pure trolling so I will ignore it, but this statement is believed by many on here--notably Strategist--so it's worth addressing.

The "pie" grows at basically the rate of productivity improvements. In the US that's running under 2% a year right now. That's how fast the pie is growing.

So, when the top 1% has income growing at 10%, that absolutely means that the bottom 99% is losing ground.

169   missing   2017 Jun 3, 10:30am  

sagacious1 says

Quite right, yet isn't this always the complaint? That Socialism could work, if not for Pol Pot, Joseph Stalin, etc....

Not really. At least not in my case. If you read what I wrote earlier, I think that an entirely centralized economy cannot function well for logistic reasons. However, the success of NEP illustrates that some balance between centralized planning and private ownership of capital can function well. China is another example.

It seems to me that where you and I disagree (please correct me if I am wrong) is that you equate socialist economic policies with the communist ideology from the first half of last century. I think the primary source of evil is the totalitarian ideology, or just ideological indoctrination, which does not necessarily require socialism.

Throughout history there are many examples where ideologic indoctrination has been used to keep the population in fear and subordination. In the middle ages that was religion - inconvenient people were labelled heretics or witches. In the soviet union decedents were enemy of the people and the decisions of the communist party were not to be questioned. In our current society, we have PC (of course I am not equating it to the terror in the soviet union from the 30's). We also have the fear of communism used to scare people from supporting social programs that are to their benefit.

170   AD   2017 Jun 3, 9:19pm  

Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterized by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production.

You can view socialism within the USA such as with public schools. The government (i.e. school board, etc.) controls the means of producing public education (K-12).

The question, how far do you want your society to allow the government to control production. Do you want that to extend to health care ? Do you want that to extend to other industries the produces goods and services ?

Can socialism exist in a very heterogeneous society as it does in a very homogeneous society like the Scandinavian countries ? Keep in mind the USA spends about 3.5% of its GDP on defense, whereas the northern European countries barely spend 1% of GDP on defense. If the USA would reduce defense from 3.5% to 1% of GDP, then the $500 billion savings from defense cuts (i.e., 2.5% of GDP) could go to social welfare services. Providing a $6,000 a year voucher per person per year for health care insurance would provide coverage for 83,333,333 million American citizens.

Right now health care accounts for about 12% of the $20 trillion economy, or about $2.4 trillion.

171   FortWayne   2017 Jun 3, 9:24pm  

That subsidy would just increase healthcare costs by 6,000 a year.

adarmiento says

Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterized by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production.

You can view socialism within the USA such as with public schools. The government (i.e. school board, etc.) controls the means of producing public education (K-12).

The question, how far do you want your society to allow the government to control production. Do you want that to extend to health care ? Do you want that to extend to other industries the produces goods and services ?

Can socialism exist in a very heterogeneous society as it does in a very homogeneous society like the Scandinavian countries ? Keep in mind the USA spends about 3.5% of its GDP on defense, whereas the northern European countries barely spend 1% of GDP on defense. If the USA would reduce defense from 3.5% to 1% of GDP, then the $500 billion savings from defense cuts (i.e., 2.5% of GDP) could go to social welfare services. Providing a $6,000 ...

172   zzyzzx   2017 Jul 26, 11:37am  

http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/07/24/venezuela-rewards-soldiers-with-toilet-paper-bernie-sanders-takes-notes/

Venezuela rewards soldiers with toilet paper

Things have been a little tense in Venezuela lately, and repression soldiers have had to deploy tear gas on citizens chanting for food. As a morale boost, it seems, some of those repression solders were rewarded with toilet paper and other personal items, and the award presentations were captured on film for posterity.

173   Strategist   2017 Jul 26, 12:03pm  

2430 says

Venezuela rewards soldiers with toilet paper

That's awesome. It's what every asshole desires.

174   Strategist   2017 Jul 26, 1:14pm  

1641 says

A list of socialist nations and their utter fury at how horrible their socialist health care is performing.

I'm all for using their health care system up to a certain point. Our system is fully fucked.
I would also use their education system.
By they way , they are capitalist countries.

175   anonymous   2017 Jul 26, 1:31pm  

Gentle Reader,

Venezuela's problems have nothing to do with socialism, communism, democracy, capitalism, or sadism in tight latex. Well, maybe that last one. What this has to do is an economy and nation dependent on oil. I live in Louisiana, I know about oil and the problems associated with depending on the tax revenue and jobs of an oil extraction economy. We've suffered from oil.

Regards,
Roidy
P.S. Fuck you President Pouty Poo.

176   Strategist   2017 Jul 26, 3:28pm  

15204 says

I live in Louisiana, I know about oil and the problems associated with depending on the tax revenue and jobs of an oil extraction economy. We've suffered from oil.

You guys ran out of toilet paper too?

177   anonymous   2017 Jul 26, 3:41pm  

81606 says

15204 says

I live in Louisiana, I know about oil and the problems associated with depending on the tax revenue and jobs of an oil extraction economy. We've suffered from oil.

You guys ran out of toilet paper too?

Gentle Reader,

I'm not really sure what you mean by running out of toilet paper, but I can say with assurance that we WILL take matters in hand if we do.

Regards,
Roidy

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