patrick.net

BlueSardine says

If there was a god and there were souls and you felt you were going straight to hell then death would have a galactic sting.

If the deterrent of an imaginary hell prevented people from doing evil, then the Republican Party would not exist, slavery would have never happened, and the Dark Ages would have been the best time in all of human history.

Empirical results matter.

“It’s absolutely remarkable,” says Jim Molleur, a Maine-based bankruptcy attorney with 20 years of experience. “We’re not getting people with big medical bills, chronically sick people who would hit those lifetime caps or be denied because of pre-existing conditions. They seemed to disappear almost overnight once ACA kicked in.”

"These provisions include mandated coverage for pre-existing conditions and, on most covered benefits, an end to annual and lifetime coverage caps. Aspects of the law, including provisions for young people to be covered by a family policy until age 26, went into effect in 2010 and 2011, before the full rollout of the ACA in 2014."
Republicans benefit from ACA programs,one is one too many Republican Socialist.
They can't pay their own way. I'm sure they can find someone to blame.
Take this socialism away from these Socialists.

http://time.com/money/4765443/obamacare-bankruptcy-decline/

Dan8267 says

I'm not the one inflicting beliefs onto victim

Believing that your beliefs are absolute truth. Intolerance of contrary beliefs. Try looking in the mirror.

Blurtman says

Believing that your beliefs are absolute truth.

I don't believe that. So either you are a fool or a liar.

I am willing to change any belief provided actual evidence shows that it is wrong. I am irrelevant to my beliefs. Unlike you, I'm not egocentric. The messenger, as I've stated countless times, is irrelevant. The square root of two is irrational no matter who proves that.

There is no omnipotent entity because omnipotence is self-contradictory. It does not matter who proves that either.

My beliefs aren't absolute, but logic is and I base my beliefs on logic and evidence. You should do the same.

Dan8267 says

There is no omnipotent entity because omnipotence is self-contradictory.

As you believe. But others believe differently. You are entitled to your beliefs and they, to theirs. Your claim to use logic is no different than anyone else, and is by no means a guarantee that your conclusion is correct.

If the messenger is irrelevant then you have no reason not to consider the postings of the banned.
The fact that you consider them trolls is irrelevant.

Dan8267 says

I am willing to change any belief provided actual evidence shows that it is wrong. I am irrelevant to my beliefs. Unlike you, I'm not egocentric. The messenger, as I've stated countless times, is irrelevant.

Blurtman says

Dan8267 says

There is no omnipotent entity because omnipotence is self-contradictory.

As you believe.

You're statement is as ridiculous as stating that the irrationality of the square root of two is subjective. It is not.

The contradiction of omnipotence is so obvious even a child can understand it.

Can your god make an immovable object? If no, then he is not omnipotent. If yes, then can he move the object? If no, then once more he is not omnipotent. If yes, then you have contradicted that he created an immovable object, and thus he is not omnipotent.

Game. Set. Match. Logic is not subject to your opinions.

BlueSardine says

If the messenger is irrelevant then you have no reason not to consider the postings of the banned.

You trolls have no messages. Flame wars aren't messages. Change your ways if you want to be unbanned. Whining like a little bitch isn't going to get you unbanned.

Being banned by you is considered a positive in these parts.
Please dont unban me.

Dan8267 says

Change your ways if you want to be unbanned.

BlueSardine says

Being banned by you is considered a positive in these parts.

You mean loonyville?

Dan8267 says

You trolls have no messages. Flame wars aren't messages. Change your ways if you want to be unbanned. Whining like a little bitch isn't going to get you unbanned.

Yet another example of your limitless ego to believe that anyone cares if they unbanned by you.

If you consider patrick.net "looneyville", why do you stay around?

Dan8267 says

BlueSardine says

Being banned by you is considered a positive in these parts.

You mean loonyville?

BlueSardine says

If you consider patrick.net "looneyville", why do you stay around?

Another lie told by a thoroughly dishonest person. Even you are not so stupid as to think that is what I meant, which means you are lying to the audience because they think they are stupid enough to fall for such a lie.

It's amazing how readily conservatives will lie about everything.

FortWayne says

Obamacare isn't Republican.

The hell it isn't. It's basically the Republican counterplan to Hillarycare from the 1990s. Why do you hate history so much? What has it ever done to you that you would abuse it so?

Dan8267 says

FortWayne says

Obamacare isn't Republican.

The hell it isn't. It's basically the Republican counterplan to Hillarycare from the 1990s. Why do you hate history so much? What has it ever done to you that you would abuse it so?

Who passed it? Obama
Who voted for it? Democrats
Who voted against it? Republicans

Dan, you should get out into real universe at least once in a while.

FortWayne says

Who passed it? Obama

Who voted for it? Democrats

Who voted against it? Republicans

What exactly don't you like about Obamacare? The individual mandate? Who insisted on there being one? The Republicans.

Lack of single payer? Again, the Republicans.

Lack of a public option? Again, the Republicans.

Private insurance companies still fucking you? Again, the Republicans.

Lack of transparent pricing? Again, the Republicans.

The only thing the Democrats did wrong was compromising. They should have given a big fuck you to the Republicans and passed what we all really wanted: nationalized not-for-profit health insurance.

they said it would be cheaper.
they said we could keep our doctors.
they lied about both.
deductables are 100% higher
premiums are much higher
we have unfamiliar doctors now.
we were lied to. bald in your face lies by obama.

Dan8267 says

What exactly don't you like about Obamacare?

the fuckin insurance doesn't even kick in anymore unless you are on your deathbed.
total and complete reversal of what we were told.

They were advised by their tax consultant that they would owe zero tax at the end ot the year.

Police have not released their names yet.......rumor has it that their names are stupider and stupidest...and they both voted Democratic....whood believe?

BlueSardine says

they said

I asked Fort Wayne, and he's too scared to answer.

But I'll address your points...

- they said it would be cheaper.

It is for some, but not others. However, the inability to say no is the leading cause of higher prices. Inelastic demand will always pay more than elastic demand. Blame this on the Republicans and their individual mandates.

- they said we could keep our doctors.
No doctor has stopped practicing because of Obamacare. Some really bad and basically fraudulent health insurance plans were eliminated because they didn't cover shit. This is not a bad thing.

-- deductables are 100% higher
-- premiums are much higher

Of course. This is the fault of the Republicans. The bottom line is that Obamacare is a perfect illustration of why capitalism fails at infrastructure. Capitalism has had over a century to get health care and health insurance right. It has failed epically. The ACA is just the latest failure, and it fails because it's based on privately owned insurance companies playing zero-sum games with patients. There are always losers in zero-sum games.

The solution is to nationalize health insurance. Then deductibles and premiums would be damn lower, and we could eliminate the waste of not preventing problems.

Finally, today's illustration of hypocrisy is brought to you by Shrek...

BlueSardine says

Misspelling a word in the pronouncement is confirmation (of stupidity).

BlueSardine says

deductables

Dan8267 says

What exactly don't you like about Obamacare?

The fact that it makes insurance companies rich at the expense of the citizens.

Dan8267 says

No doctor has stopped practicing because of Obamacare.

My primary care Dr retired early because he did not want to spend the money upgrading his billing systems. A lot of private medical offices did the same.

Dan8267 says

The ACA is just the latest failure, and it fails because it's based on privately owned insurance companies

Agreed!

My biggest gripes with Obamacare are that it does nothing to increase price transparency or reduce medical costs.

The first order of business should be to require all medical providers to:

1. publish a compete price list
2. apply that price list exactly the same to each patient (same treatment from same provider = same cost)
3. tell everyone exactly what they will be charged in advance of non-emergency treatment, in writing

rando says

My biggest gripes with Obamacare are that it does nothing to increase price transparency or reduce medical costs.

The first order of business should be to require all medical providers to:

1. publish a compete price list

2. apply that price list exactly the same to each patient (same treatment from same provider = same cost)

3. tell everyone exactly what they will be charged in advance of non-emergency treatment, in writing

This, before insurance, income or anything else is even brought to the table

Onvacation says

Dan8267 says

What exactly don't you like about Obamacare?

The fact that it makes insurance companies rich at the expense of the citizens.

This is entirely the fault of the Republican Party. Their entire platform is making big companies rich at the expense of citizens.

Onvacation says

My primary care Dr retired early because he did not want to spend the money upgrading his billing systems. A lot of private medical offices did the same.

Evidence?

In any case, single payer is the solution to that. It streamlines all billing and collection reducing administrative costs to practically nothing. Throw in nationalized health insurance and those administrative costs go to zero.

rando says

The first order of business should be to require all medical providers to:

1. publish a compete price list

2. apply that price list exactly the same to each patient (same treatment from same provider = same cost)

3. tell everyone exactly what they will be charged in advance of non-emergency treatment, in writing

You really are like a broken record. Ok I'll ask for the 10th or 12th time. I'm not expecting any answer this time either.

How exactly will this matter when almost everyone is locked into their network doctors and hospitals that have pretty much the same charges anyway? Most people are lucky to get a doctor at all any more, never mind being able to pick and choose by price. Many, many doctors aren't accepting new patients except in the really big cities. Even then it's getting harder.

Seriously patrick so you have the vaguest clue where the money in medical is going to?

you certainly could get prices you wanted to bother. Wishing for a price list is like wishing for a white christmas. It' would be nice to have, but it's not going to matter at all.

bob2356 says

It' would be nice to have, but it's not going to matter at all.

It would happen immediately if we had a single payer system. Every procedure or treatment would have a publicly published price. Sure providers would still charge whatever they wanted to, but the public price would let patients shop around damn easy. Hell, there would be an app for that. You would say "OK Google hysterectomy" and Google would tell you the cheapest prices and the patient ratings of the practices. It would be literally three seconds of your time to shop around.

False equivalency.
I was not boasting about some superior mental state. You were.
You see, that's what "in the pronouncement" refers to.
See following posts for details.

Dan8267 says

Finally, today's illustration of hypocrisy is brought to you by Shrek...

BlueSardine says

Misspelling a word in the pronouncement is confirmation (of stupidity).

BlueSardine says

deductables

The actual sequence of events
A. dan boasts of his supposed superior mental abilities

B. quigley points out that in dans boasting statement, he doesn't know the correct spelling of "too"

C. BlueSardine points out the fact that misspelling a word in a sentence where one is bragging about some imagined superior intellect is confirmation of actual stupidity.

D. dan can't comprehend "C", the idea that a misspelled word in a non-self-boasting sentence (bluesardine) does not carry the weight of spelling each word correctly, with a misspelled word in a sentence that boasts of the intellect of the poster (dan), which does carry the weight of spelling each word correctly.

Quigley says

Dan8267 says

Your mind is far to small to comprehend what goes on in mine.

Odd, because my mind knows that you misspelled "too" in that supremely arrogant statement.

BlueSardine says

BlueSardine says

Bragging about ones supposed intelligence on a public forum is a sure sign of stupidity.


Misspelling a word in the pronouncement is confirmation.

E . Because he likes to use false equivalencies...

bob2356 says

where the money in medical is going to?

30%, biggest revenue recipient = Hospital Association, based in Chicago, with creatively obfuscatory billing codes provided by AMA, also based in Chicago. A President from Chicago (coincidence, surely!) signs legislation entrenching the whole patronage network system. Physicians get 20% directly, plus kickbacks on testing labs, home services, and drugs. Around 10% goes to PhRMA, which provides lobbying and advertising and kickbacks to MDs to keep the whole machine going, and Medicare hospital emergencies tend to result from legal Rx drugs, so you can see how the entrenched players reinforce each other, one hand washing the other. Bob blames PhRMA for everything, ignoring the other 90% of the pie:

bob2356 says

How exactly will this matter when almost everyone is locked into their network doctors and hospitals that have pretty much the same charges anyway?

How do you know they have the same charges?

People will change networks to get better prices if they can save enough.

rando says

People will change networks to get better prices if they can save enough.

Really, how do they change networks if they have employer provided insurance? Which is where 49% people get their health insurance. There is 14% medicare, 20% medicaid, 7% uninsured. None of those can change anything. So the remaining 9% of the population shopping around for health care is going to drive costs down?

Dan8267 says

Evidence?

He told me so.

Dan8267 says

In any case, single payer is the solution to that

Probably. But how would the politicians get rich in office?

Dan8267 says

Onvacation says

My primary care Dr retired early because he did not want to spend the money upgrading his billing systems. A lot of private medical offices did the same.

Evidence?

Onvacation says

He told me so.

Even if we accept hearsay, which is generally not considered valid evidence, that still does not support the assertion that "a lot of private medical offices did the same".

Even if a few doctors close to retirement decide to retire early, that does not imply that the system as a whole is worse off. You cannot improve any real world system without some disruptions.

I agree that the ACA sucks, but it sucks at about the same level as the previous system and it sucks entirely due to the Republican agenda. Sure there are winners and losers in the ACA, but it's not a significant departure from the previous system.

Onvacation says

Probably. But how would the politicians get rich in office?

www.youtube.com/embed/9V-O5YaWOR4?showinfo=0